Even plenty of reports lately about Minor possibly being moved, so he's probably next. Hopefully at least one of the prospects we got for Profar is major league ready.

Meet prospect Eli White

Meh...

If we are going full on talent acquisition mode...any chance Elvis is moved? Will they burn it all the way down?

TMACsDaMan said:

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Profar is gonna go in raw against the Rangers to stick it to JD. Beane will just stick him in one position and watch him be an MVP candidate. It's just the Rangers luck that it will go that way.

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This could not be more accurate. Literally spent six years developing this kid and right when he turns the corner we ship him off to the A's. He's gonna turn into an All-Star on the A's and then become the next big Yankees infielder once he hits free agency

Not happy about losing Profar. The only positive that I can see is the Wisdom pickup a few weeks ago made him expendable. However, I felt like Profar could be an everyday 3B since the retirement of Beltre.

I'll bet Profar has a great career and he could have done it in a Rangers uniform but now it will be an A's or some other uniform.

PWestAg18 said:

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TMACsDaMan said:

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Profar is gonna go in raw against the Rangers to stick it to JD. Beane will just stick him in one position and watch him be an MVP candidate. It's just the Rangers luck that it will go that way.

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This could not be more accurate. Literally spent six years developing this kid and right when he turns the corner we ship him off to the A's. He's gonna turn into an All-Star on the A's and then become the next big Yankees infielder once he hits free agency

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The problem with spending six years developing the kid is that when he turns the corner the club doesn't have control over him anymore.

Assuming you don't extend him a multi-year contract right now (which Texas would be gunshy about offering, and Profar would be gunshy about passing up free agency), then you have two scenarios:

1) Keep him and benefit from his production

or

2) Trade him


I think we can all agree that this year isn't/wasn't going to amount to much... So is what we traded him for worth more than what you think the 2020 season of Jurickson Profar will be to the Rangers?


No one in the Rangers front office is for trading Profar because they think he won't be good.

I just felt like we had a core of position players that could turn into a playoff team given a pitching staff. Plus it's just frustrating after all these years of hearing "Profar is the next big Ranger" and finally after seeing signs of that last year we turn around and trade him. I get the reasoning behind the trade, just frustrated at the reality of the rebuild we're undertaking.

PWestAg18 said:

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I just felt like we had a core of position players that could turn into a playoff team given a pitching staff. Plus it's just frustrating after all these years of hearing "Profar is the next big Ranger" and finally after seeing signs of that last year we turn around and trade him. I get the reasoning behind the trade, just frustrated at the reality of the rebuild we're undertaking.

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Nobody likes a rebuild, but the problem with Profar simply lies in that he was a top prospect that missed 2+ years.

No team can really work around that hurdle.

free_mhayden said:

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PWestAg18 said:

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TMACsDaMan said:

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Profar is gonna go in raw against the Rangers to stick it to JD. Beane will just stick him in one position and watch him be an MVP candidate. It's just the Rangers luck that it will go that way.

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This could not be more accurate. Literally spent six years developing this kid and right when he turns the corner we ship him off to the A's. He's gonna turn into an All-Star on the A's and then become the next big Yankees infielder once he hits free agency

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The problem with spending six years developing the kid is that when he turns the corner the club doesn't have control over him anymore.

Assuming you don't extend him a multi-year contract right now (which Texas would be gunshy about offering, and Profar would be gunshy about passing up free agency), then you have two scenarios:

1) Keep him and benefit from his production

or

2) Trade him


I think we can all agree that this year isn't/wasn't going to amount to much... So is what we traded him for worth more than what you think the 2020 season of Jurickson Profar will be to the Rangers?


No one in the Rangers front office is for trading Profar because they think he won't be good.

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This. I really thought Profar turned the corner, and is going to be a solid player. However, he will be a free agent soon. We aren't contending in 2019. Hopefully the prospects we got pan out.

With his injury history hard to agree on extension without seeing him play 3B everyday for a season. Was always hopeful for what he could be but good time for both parties to move on.

Just looked up Brock Burke and this kid looks like a legit starter who has a chance to be up in the summer or at least a cup of coffee in September.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=burke-001bro

Had to do it, I think. If memory serves, Profar is a Boras client. He'll be in pinstripes or Dodger blue by 2021, just when our rebuild may be getting interesting.

Schall 02 said:

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Had to do it, I think. If memory serves, Profar is a Boras client. He'll be in pinstripes or Dodger blue by 2021, just when our rebuild may be getting interesting.

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Good point . Just looked it up and he is a Boras client.

Here is his contract status:


YEAR

AGE
BASE SALARY
TOTAL SALARY
ADJUSTED SALARY[url=https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/45/payroll-2018/][/url]2018

25
$1,050,000
$1,050,000
$1,050,000
2019

26
ARB 3

2020

27
ARB 4

2021

28
UFA

free_mhayden said:

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Profar already didn't like they way he was handled the last 2-3 years as a super utility guy -- I think that that point the chances of him singing an extension before testing the free agent waters (with a SS and a 2B still on the roster) was slim.

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It was 2017 I believe when the Rangers sent him down so that he wouldn't accrue enough service time for another year of service. If they had kept him up, when would be one year closer to free agency. So yeah, he probably hasn't forgotten about that. He wasn't happy at the time I recall.

As much as I'd have liked to see him thrive at 3B this year, it would be at the cost of us getting nothing at all for him in a couple of years. We just GOT to have some quality starters come up through the farm system and the Burke kid has huge upside. 7 of our top 10 prospects are now starting pitchers.

Quote:

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The Texas Rangers have finally traded Jurickson Profar. After holding onto him and refusing to include him in deals for the likes of Justin Upton and Zack Greinke, after trading Ian Kinsler to open up a spot for him only to see him miss two seasons, after continuing to hold onto him as he made his way back to the majors in a utility role, and then finally seeming him perform, in 2018, like the player they thought he could be, the Rangers finally pulled the trigger and have dealt the one-time top prospect in MLB, sending him to the Oakland A's, along with A-ball pitcher Rollie Lacy.
(Take a moment and think how different Rangers history would have been if, in 2012, the Rangers had bitten the bullet and dealt Profar to the Brewers for Zack Greinke. They wouldn't have traded Kyle Hendricks that year for Ryan Dempster. They would have held off the A's in the A.L. West, giving them three division titles in a row with a team that was positioned to go deep into the playoffs. They wouldn't have felt pressured to make the Matt Garza deal in 2013. Without Profarwaiting in the wings, they wouldn't have dumped Ian Kinsler for Prince Fielder after the 2013 season.
Okay, maybe you shouldn't take a moment and think about it.)
So why, now that Profar has seemingly shown you that he was worth the wait, deal Profar? Why not keep him and make him part of your core going forward?
There are two potential reasons, both of which I think factor into this decision. One is the belief that you are unlikely to extend Profar before he hits free agency. Profar is a Scott Boras client, and Boras clients are more likely to hit the free agent market, though they don't always. That said, Jon Daniels said today that they had engaged with Profar in extension talks, but those talks didn't really advance. If you can't extend Profar now, when he's two years from free agency, it makes sense to see what the market is for him.
The other factor, which probably played into what the Rangers were willing to offer Profar to extend, is that I'm not sure the team sees Profar as a great fit at third base long term. Profar's throwing arm hasn't been the same since his shoulder surgery, and throws from third last year were...an adventure. And in a small sample size, both DRS and UZR saw Profar as well below average defensively at third base. Profar's best position long-term is probably second base, where the Rangers are committed to Rougned Odor. And the A's, of course, will be playing him there.

(Insert obligatory "Nolan Arenado will be a free agent at the end of 2019" comment here)
The Rangers are in rebuilding mode, and you can argue that they should have held onto Profar at least through 2020, when the new ballpark is opening and when, it appears, the Rangers are planning on spending more in free agency and being more aggressive in seeking to contend. If you're planning on being a contender in 2020 which I think the Rangers would like to be Profar has value to your team then.
That said, the players the Rangers got back in this deal also fit that time frame. Brock Burke, considered the top prospect the Rangers got in this trade, is a lefthanded starter will likely start the 2019 season in AA Frisco, and could be in the majors in September. He's one of four quality starting pitching prospects along with Taylor Hearn, Jonathan Hernandez and Joe Palumbo who the Rangers now have who ended the 2018 season in AA, and who could potentially be contributing to a major league rotation at some point in the 2020 season. The consensus seems to be that Burke will be ranked in the Rangers' farm system somewhere in the 5-10 range, in the same tier as those three.
Burke also has talked about the Driveline Baseball program he and other Rays prospects used as helping him significantly, and the Rangers were reported over the summer to be entering into a consulting agreement with Driveline.
Eli White, the infielder the Rangers acquired in this deal, spent all of 2018 at AA, and will probably start the 2019 in Nashville. He had a breakout year with the bat in 2018, can play a variety of positions, and was named the best defensive second baseman in the Texas League in 2018. He's someone who we could see in the majors in 2019 or 2020. He's also not exactly a throw-in...he was 8th on the A's top 10 list per Baseball America, who compared him to Chris Taylor.
Burke and White also make the MLB Pipeline Rangers top 30 list, with MLB Pipeline slotting Burke at #6 and White at #12.
Kyle Bird, the lefty reliever the Rangers got in this deal from Tampa, is likely going to be in the mix for a bullpen job to start 2019 after spending most of the 2018 season in AAA. He strikes out a bunch and walks a bunch, but doesn't appear to be a one inning or LOOGY guy. And he also, according to Eric Longenhagen, is a "big spin guy." Yoel Espinal, meanwhile, is someone the Rangers considered taking in the Rule 5 draft, per Jared Sandler. Neither of them are going to make the pulse race, but Bird, in particular, could be filling a major league role fairly soon.
The Rangers also got $750,000 in international slot money in this deal, and that's not insignificant, but for the most part, this deal adds pieces that, if they work out, should be in the majors in the next year or two. This is the Rangers dealing Profar for pieces that can help supplement the young position players Joey Gallo, Rougned Odor, Nomar Mazara, Ronald Guzman, Willie Calhoun, Isiah Kiner-Falefa that are in the majors now.
Ultimately, how this deal is judged likely comes down to Brock Burke's development. The Rangers have prioritized improving their starting pitching in the minors, and even if Bird becomes a solid reliever and White a nice versatile bench piece, if Burke doesn't become a useful major league starting pitcher, this will likely be chalked up as a disappointing trade. The positive aspect of this, though, is that the Rangers are continuing to accumulate interesting starting pitching arms. If the Rangers just hit on a couple of the guys who will start 2019 in AA or AAA, that would be a huge win, and they are gathering enough in both talent and numbers to make that a more realistic possibility.

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TXAggie2011 said:

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He shouldn't have played like dog**** if he didn't want to get sent down.

It wasn't going to work out and it's been a matter of time, for a long time.

He finally had a somewhat decent season and had some trade value.

Hope he enjoys trying to hit his way to a big contract out in Oakland.

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I remember, he couldn't hit that year at all. But they did send him down right about the time that the rosters were expanding for September callups. I can't blame JD for trading him, odds of him re-signing weren't too good, especially with Boris as his agent.

When we got Widsom, it seemed a given Profar was gone. I don't think Profar liked 3B, but was willing to play it to get on the field, where he was pretty much told to shut up and play whatever was offered.

I expect the A's to play him at 2B, where Profar will likely do very well.

Kyle Bird (25-LRP) - No MLB experience.
Yoel Espinal (26-RRP) - No MLB experience. 22 IP at AAA
Eli White (24-Util IF) - AA
Brock Burke (22-LH SP) - 55 IP at AA, whom I beleive is Rule V eligible after the season.

There is team control, so if you are going to take quantity over quality, you might as well do it, in trading Profar (Quality) for the Haul.

None of those 4 guys will contribute in 2019, in any measureable way. They are getting to the age that they are no longer prospects and yet, have not cracked MLB, so you have to wonder how much shelf life they have, sans Brock Burke.

I think this is yet another signal that 2021 is going to be the year. These guys (I suspect) will be Rule V eligible after 2019, and will likely be on the bubble for 2020.

It is going to take me a bunch of time in February to sort through the SP we now have. We've taken a ton of players in trades and FA, and many are possible RP or SP. On the otherhand (pardon the pun), the vast number and opaqueness of the quantity of talent may require me to wait until ST, to find out how some of these guys slide into the existing talent. We also have a ton of SPs who had TJ surgery, which will need to be considered. I think we had like 3-4 SPs have TJ as the 2018 season opened. Alex Speas (surgery 6/2018 - 2nd Rd 2017), Cole Ragans (surgery 3/2018 - 1st Rd in 2016), Collin Wiles (Sup 1st Rder in 2012) and Kyle Cody (surgery 7/2018 - 6th Rd 2016). Did Brett Martin, as well? Most of those TJ guys won't really be contributing in the minors until late 2019... which means 2021?

Regarding Crouse... the article mentions the slow-rolling Rangers' strategy to have new players enter a conditioning program before fully taking on pitching. Part of the breadth of talent coming in, allows the Rangers to either fill in the gap to slow unnecessary promotions before they are ready, or is intentional to line up talent ahead of them... in order to stymie their ability to be promoted.

DallasAg 94 said:

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None of those 4 guys will contribute in 2019, in any measureable way.

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Bird should be in the bullpen as a solid LH option as soon as Opening Day 2019.

Rossko said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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None of those 4 guys will contribute in 2019, in any measureable way.

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Bird should be in the bullpen as a solid LH option as soon as Opening Day 2019.

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I don't think that is a given.

Here is a crude update, which may or may not be current or completely accurate:

For Pitching we have on the 40:
SP: Mike Minor, Lance Lynn (31-R), Smyly (29-L)

In the Mix for SP
Volquez (34-R) <- It was mentioned he is penciled into rotation.
Brett Martin (23-L)
YoMen (23-L) <- I think he goes to AAA.
Ariel Jurado (22-R)

Minors - SP
Brock Burke (21-L) <- Likely AA
Joe Palumbo (23-L) <- Likely AA?
Hearn (23-L) <- Likely AA?
Jon Hernandez (21-R) <- Likely AA



For RP:
Jesse Chavez (34-R)
Chris Martin (32-R)
Sadzeck (26-R)
Romano (25-R) <- Rule V, needs to be on 25.
LeClerc (24-R)
Gardewine (24-R)

Springs (25-L)
--------------------------

So, that's 7 options for SP. 5 will make it.
5 of the 6 RH RPs listed are on the boat. Springs is likely a given.
So, we are at 11 pitchers and will likely have 12-13.

That leaves:
CD Pelham (23-L) <- Not so great 2018.
Wei-Chieh Huang (24-R)
Bird (25-L)

As a 25 yr old and a Lefty, you'd like to think he makes it.

Considering Dallas Keuchel?

On the backside of 30... wants 4-6 years and likely gets $20M per?! We'd give up $500K in Int'l and our 2nd overall pick.

We've just dismantled 2019, and likely 2020.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Considering Dallas Keuchel?

On the backside of 30... wants 4-6 years and likely gets $20M per?! We'd give up $500K in Int'l and our 2nd overall pick.

We've just dismantled 2019, and likely 2020.

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No way we are bringing Keuchel in. Would make no sense with the other moves we've made.

Just in case you needed little more analysis of the Profar trade, here is a pretty in-depth look at it.

He just ended 2018 with 55.2 IP in AAA Durham with a 1.94 ERA & 10.5 K/9. He walks more than we'd like but it would be a disappointment in my opinion if he doesn't make the opening day 25 barring injury.

That's a good read.

I'm neutral, as well on the deal. I get trading Profar. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with what we got back, as I know nothing about the players, other than what is on paper/stats.

I think Profar has more consistency in 2019, and thus will accomplish more and appear to be better than he was in 2018, so I think the article understates what I expect in 2019. Regardless, the Rangers are not going anywhere before 2021, and holding Profar makes little sense.

I also do not believe Profar is a 3B. I don't think his full potential will be valued at 3B. So, moving him makes sense, in that regard, as well.

For me, it will just be different players to evaluate, and most likely not a long-term comparison.

Rossko said:

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He just ended 2018 with 55.2 IP in AAA Durham with a 1.94 ERA & 10.5 K/9. He walks more than we'd like but it would be a disappointment in my opinion if he doesn't make the opening day 25 barring injury.

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IMO, there is more to the discussion than how he did in 2018 at AAA. It will be more than if the Rangers think he can get outs in 2019, at the MLB level.

Unless they trade Jesse Chavez or Chris Martin, both are in Arlington.
Sadzeck is a converted SP, whom they are likely to commit to Arlington, based on his age and tenure.
Romano is a Rule V. If he doesn't make the 25 Roster out of ST, he is offered back to his original team.
LeClerc has established himself at the MLB level.

So, that is 5 RPs. Without knowing who has options and what their tenure is... something I'm too lazy to look up, tonight... you are at 2... maybe 3 spots left. JD has toyd with the idea of a 6-Man rotation, but has also mentioned having an Opener.

I've never seen Bird pitch and I didn't bother watching any games at the end of last season.

It is one thing to have 1 or 2 question marks in the BP... but the Rangers have 2 veterans and then a bunch of guys who are likely there as Serfs.

If the BP blows a bunch of saves early in the season, I could see JD on the hot seat quickly. If the SP sucks and we don't win many games, the team will go as many expect. But, if the SP does get off to a strong start... the BP better hold the W.

None of those 5 RP you mentioned are left handed. There's no way the Rangers go into Opening Day without a LH in the pen. No pitcher on the 40 is established in the pen as a LH outside of Minor who will be starting. Bird doesn't have as much competition as you may think to make the roster.

I think he has just as much a chance as anyone to make the team out of ST. Bird still has 3 Options.

Springs is a LH RP, and has 3 options. He has 32.0 IP at the MLB level, all in 2018.

I think there was talk of him becoming a SP... but I would have to believe that is unlikely. So, there is one.

CD Pelham (still has 3 Options) is also a LH RP. I expect him to be at AAA.

The Rangers have also picked up:
Zac Curtis (26)
Jack Leathersich (28)

I believe they were both signed to minor league deals and have no Options left. Not sure the details. I think in some of those cases, if the players like Curtis and Leathersich believe they can make the roster of another team, they can request release to sign with another team, instead of taking the minor league assignment. I don't recall how all of those things work. I think sometimes it is in the contract. Sometimes I think once they get put on the 25, only then they can reject being sent down.

So, it could be that Curtis and Leathersich end up being sent to the minors, so as the Rangers can get more time with them, before deciding on whether they are a fit, meaning Bird has the inside route to make the BP.

On the other hand... if the Rangers view Bird long-term, and know that Curtis and Leathersich are reclamation projects... the Rangers could intend to trade them, once they demonstrate viability in MLB. It would also allow Bird a few more months of lower-level pitching.

I really have no idea about Bird or any other. I'm downplaying the role of Bird on the 25, mainly because JD is building towards 2021, so burning a year and an Option on him, at least on paper doesn't seem likely. And if he is a Rule V after 2019, then the Rangers certainly need him to be viable for 2020.