***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

57,462 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 11 mo ago by aggiephoenix02
Rudyjax
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GoAgs92 said:

Time out.

I know the FIFA rankings are crap, I said so earlier when somebody claimed our group was tough because all 4 were in the top 20.

I said infallible FIFA rankings as Sarcasm....so yes it was a joke.


No... we didn't make the final 16. Was that a joke?
fig96
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I can totally see it being Gio or Musah.

We're getting to a point where we're having to leave some really talented players on the bench, something I know we need but it's odd to get used to.
akm91
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I think it's more likely to be Gio or someone that we haven't heard about yet.
fig96
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GoAgs92 said:

fig96 said:

GoAgs92 said:

PatAg said:

GoAgs92 said:

aggiephoenix02 said:

GoAgs92 said:

US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
We've been on equal footing or better than Mexico since the 90's, bro…
Mostly because they have gotten worse.

We didn't even make it last time…clearly we are doing great…and are just a few unlucky bounces away…


You suck.
You should try sucking less.
I'm sorry my opinion differs from the almighty soccer genius "patag" who is fine with mediocrity in all things.
When literally no one is agreeing with you there's a chance he might not be the one with the wrong opinion here.
Team underperformed, that is a fact not an opinion.

Ranked 16 in the world per the infallible FIFA rankings and didn't make the final 16.

Do you disagree?

Bunch of participation trophy babies in this thread.

Based on your logic, we were ranked #16 and played an elimination game vs #8. How did you expect that would go?
Mathguy64
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GoAgs92 said:

fig96 said:

GoAgs92 said:

PatAg said:

GoAgs92 said:

aggiephoenix02 said:

GoAgs92 said:

US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
We've been on equal footing or better than Mexico since the 90's, bro…
Mostly because they have gotten worse.

We didn't even make it last time…clearly we are doing great…and are just a few unlucky bounces away…


You suck.
You should try sucking less.
I'm sorry my opinion differs from the almighty soccer genius "patag" who is fine with mediocrity in all things.
When literally no one is agreeing with you there's a chance he might not be the one with the wrong opinion here.
Team underperformed, that is a fact not an opinion.

Ranked 16 in the world per the infallible FIFA rankings and didn't make the final 16.

Do you disagree?

Bunch of participation trophy babies in this thread.



I would normally put a troll on the ignore list but this is so hilariously bad I think I will leave you visible to see just how much worse it can get.
zgolfz85
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national team soccer is a painful sport to love and clearly everyone on this thread bleeds for this team. so, yeah, coming in with overly harsh and inaccurate criticism is probably not going to go well.


I get what you're saying GoAgs, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater here isn't fair. The fact is we are developing and likely at least still a decade away from the real world powers considering us a true foe and not just a respectable one. We're on the come-up though. It's only a matter of time. I really believed we'd get to the quarters after seeing how we played against England, but the youth caught up with us against a veteran squad. Mistakes we hadn't made all tourney unfortunately popped up and I think a lot was physical and also mental fatigue. We are far from a trash program though, especially if you consider how bleak things looked after missing in 2018 and even the early qualifying trek.
KCup17
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The younger Aaronson.
KCup17
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Lol just caught up on the thread… it's delivers.
Dre_00
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GoAgs92 said:

fig96 said:

GoAgs92 said:

PatAg said:

GoAgs92 said:

aggiephoenix02 said:

GoAgs92 said:

US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
We've been on equal footing or better than Mexico since the 90's, bro…
Mostly because they have gotten worse.

We didn't even make it last time…clearly we are doing great…and are just a few unlucky bounces away…


You suck.
You should try sucking less.
I'm sorry my opinion differs from the almighty soccer genius "patag" who is fine with mediocrity in all things.
When literally no one is agreeing with you there's a chance he might not be the one with the wrong opinion here.
Team underperformed, that is a fact not an opinion.

Ranked 16 in the world per the infallible FIFA rankings and didn't make the final 16.

Do you disagree?

Bunch of participation trophy babies in this thread.




I, for one, don't have a problem with the opinion that the team underperformed. Your evidence proving their underperformance on the other hand...

So far you've mentioned results against Mexico from the 70s, not making the 2014 WC, and FIFA rankings being meaningless as your evidence. I have no idea what any of that has to do with anything about the US performance in the 2022 World Cup. (Sidenote: I agree that FIFA rankings crap but...subjectively speaking which groups do you think were tougher than the US? Because I can think of maybe 2 that were...the rest were much easier than the US' or at best as difficult)

No reasonable person could have ever suggested before this World Cup that an appearance beyond the QF was a reasonable goal for this USMNT squad. Which means that worse case scenario, the US underperformed by 1 round. However, I would argue that, coming into this World Cup, the US was nowhere near a favorite to make it to the QFs. Being upset that the US team isn't better than it is fine. But that has absolutely nothing and completely unrelated to whether they underperformed realistic expectations relative to their current skill.

aTmAg
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What is the rule on American youth playing soccer in Europe? Was there some sort of restriction on doing so unless you are a dual citizen somewhere?

If I remember that correctly, who's rule is that? Ours or theirs? If it's ours, the we should revoke that mofo immediatly.
jeffk
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What's a participation trophy baby?

Is it a baby that you give to someone for participating? Is it a tiny participation trophy born from a larger participation trophy?
JJxvi
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Its up to each country's league and their employment laws. Other than that I think FIFA rule prevent transfers under 18. England generally has tougher rules, and they give out work permits based on complicated formulas rather than approving most anybody a club wants to sign. For clubs in the EU there are no employment restrictions allowed since its a combined market legally, so any player holding an EU passport can be considered a domestic player in any EU country.
KCup17
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aTmAg said:

What is the rule on American youth playing soccer in Europe? Was there some sort of restriction on doing so unless you are a dual citizen somewhere?

If I remember that correctly, who's rule is that? Ours or theirs? If it's ours, the we should revoke that mofo immediatly.
I think it is a European rule (maybe EU?) but the rule is that if you are under a certain age i think 16 or 17 you must have a European passport or work permit in order to play. Gio got around it because he was born in England and Puli got around it because one of his grandmothers are Croatian. Its a dumb rule that prohibits us from sending young talent through the ranks of European academies.
TRM
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It's a FIFA rule. See the Player Clearance section

https://www.ussoccer.com/federation-services/international-clearance
GoAgs92
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Ok I admit, I've been talking out of my ass…haha.

Just disappointed in the results and wish we had performed to the teams ability.

I think we can all agree that Japans penalty kicks could have been better…oof…was rooting for them to move on.
oh no
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GoAgs92 said:

Ok I admit, I've been talking out of my ass…haha.
yeah; no ****
Rudyjax
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In an nutshell, with a few exceptions, it's 18 or have an EU passport.

Gio was able to get one because his grandparents are Portugese.
Pulisic got one because his grandparents were Croatian.

Dre_00
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aTmAg said:

What is the rule on American youth playing soccer in Europe? Was there some sort of restriction on doing so unless you are a dual citizen somewhere?

If I remember that correctly, who's rule is that? Ours or theirs? If it's ours, the we should revoke that mofo immediatly.

An American player who has access to an EU passport, can play as a European player in Europe...which means different things depending on the league but in all leagues, makes it much easier for teams to sign you. Note that an EU passport is relevant for the UK after Brexit.

If you don't have an EU passport, then the implications are different depending on the country/league. Some leagues allow a certain number of non-EU players without any sort of application process. Others have to go through a rigorous immigration process where they have to meet certain thresholds set by the government, etc. No non-EU players can transfer to an EU club before the age of 18.

Long story short, if you have an EU passport it is much easier to play in Europe than if you don't. If you don't, you can still do it but how easy it is depends on how good you are, what the league's roster policy is, and immigration law of the country the league resides in.
oh no
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required viewing: 6 min video from two years ago:

zgolfz85
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GoAgs92 said:

Ok I admit, I've been talking out of my ass…haha.

Just disappointed in the results and wish we had performed to the teams ability.

I think we can all agree that Japans penalty kicks could have been better…oof…was rooting for them to move on.
all good....very non 2022 of you to admit your mistake ha, so well played. Agreed -- Japan dominated portions of that game and then looked like they'd never practiced PKs at the end. Rough way to go out, especially with the vast improvements they've made on the national team level.
MookieBlaylock
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you are thanking him to admitting he was trolling and fos?

ok
TheMasterplan
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I also have a UK passport.

Sorry guy for failing the USMNT for not being good at soccer and transferring to Man Utd when I was 15.
zgolfz85
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MookieBlaylock said:

you are thanking him to admitting he was trolling and fos?

ok
yes. I don't think he was necessarily trolling, just fos ha. in 2022, where admitting you're wrong is an extreme rarity, yeah, I'll forgive that all day when someone comes hat in hand.
MookieBlaylock
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zgolfz85 said:

MookieBlaylock said:

you are thanking him to admitting he was trolling and fos?

ok
yes. I don't think he was necessarily trolling, just fos ha. in 2022, where admitting you're wrong is an extreme rarity, yeah, I'll forgive that all day when someone comes hat in hand.


He was trolling

deadbq03
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After a couple days of reflection, I'll say this…

I've followed since WC 2010, when I was bored and watched games for the first time ever and discovered an unexpected love for it. IMO this is the best team we've had in the time I've watched. We might've had better results at other WCs, but against England and the Dutch, we showed a lot of resolve and played bolder and more positively than I've seen is play against the big boys.

Playing that way would have been a train wreck in '10 or '14. It may have even been unwise this time (i.e. letting Dutch destroy us on the counter). But we were bold and those teams and fans wont forget that, and that's something. Not trying to conceive a baby participation trophy here, but the future is bright… even if that future means another cycle with ggg.

Ream is the only guy in our starting 11 who for sure wont be there in 2026. Yedlin might be the only quality bench guy who's going to be too old (and I have little doubt Scally will be light years better by then). It's highly likely that older bench guys like Morris and Acosta will get pushed out by younger guys we don't even know about. Benchwarmers like Roldan won't be there at all. Our starters will be better and our depth will be better. 2026 can't come fast enough - but I look forward to going on the CONCACrap ride with y'all!
akm91
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Quote:

Not trying to conceive a baby participation trophy here, but the future is bright… even if that future means another cycle with ggg.
Seems there's some folks, some that knows him, that think Berhalter would rather go back to coaching club.
fig96
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akm91 said:

Quote:

Not trying to conceive a baby participation trophy here, but the future is bright… even if that future means another cycle with ggg.
Seems there's some folks, some that knows him, that think Berhalter would rather go back to coaching club.
I feel like his philosophy overall fits that better. With a club team you can develop your play style and find the guys that fit what you want to do, whereas with a national team you've got a reasonably defined player pool and need to find the best way to get them working together.

To me it's always felt like Gregg was trying to apply a club mentality to the USMNT rather than trying to find the best approach to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
aggiephoenix02
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fig96 said:

akm91 said:

Quote:

Not trying to conceive a baby participation trophy here, but the future is bright… even if that future means another cycle with ggg.
Seems there's some folks, some that knows him, that think Berhalter would rather go back to coaching club.
I feel like his philosophy overall fits that better. With a club team you can develop your play style and find the guys that fit what you want to do, whereas with a national team you've got a reasonably defined player pool and need to find the best way to get them working together.

To me it's always felt like Gregg was trying to apply a club mentality to the USMNT rather than trying to find the best approach to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
That's a really good view on what he did this cycle. I never thought of it this way, but I think you're 100% on target. Thanks for the post…
Dre_00
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I think that's accurate but I will say that's not necessarily a bad thing in some ways and only becomes a bad thing if it's taken too far.

The US is still clearly in the midst of a multi-year transition/goal to a style of play that is conducive to winning major tournaments and consistently competing/beating the best teams. It still needs a coach who can impose that style as the basis or the rule (Plan A if you will) even if a different style might lead to more short term success. But it also needs a coach who has the flexibility and desire to deviate from that, only on rare occasions and when warranted, because we aren't good enough yet to just do Plan A and impose our will no matter the opponent.

I thought Berhalter was pretty good at least at forcing Plan A to be the "right" style of play needed for long term success even if it meant short term pain. But maybe Berhalter doesn't like that second part and/or doesn't have the patience to see his Plan A become dominant...because he's not in total control of how long it will take it. He's very dependent on the players available and on a FIFA calendar that rarely gives him the opportunity to play against the best teams in meaningful games.
KCup17
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Agree 100%. I think an area that ggg has struggled has been when his initial tactics don't work. He doesn't do a good job of then changing tactics to best suit the flow of the game. I think some of his subs in this WC reflected that. And maybe there are specific times he has done that well. But it seems like when we play low block teams or bunk and counter teams we try and try the same approach without luck.
PatAg
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I would also say its not up to the national team manager to develop the team into that style of play.
Its up to the player pool to develop, and that is done at the club level. Which goes back to the dramatic improvements MLS has made to its academy system, and in also getting more and more youth players to European clubs as well.

In theory, its possible we hit 2026 and have a full roster of players capable of playing at that level and in those tactical setups. They would still be somewhat young, I would guess.

We focus on missing the 9 a lot, and rightfully so. We also don't really have any of our players that are THE guy on their club teams yet. That the team is able to build around, and is the vital piece. We have a lot of guys that are capable of playing in the top 5 leages on top teams now, but none of them are the difference maker yet. I have faith we get there.
DeangeloVickers
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Rudyjax
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DeangeloVickers said:


Plenty of people have mentioned it.
akm91
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What a dumb take. Japan started two players playing in their domestic league that took down Germany.
aggiephoenix02
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akm91 said:

What a dumb take. Japan started two players playing in their domestic league that took down Germany.
Landon Donovan comes to mind.

EuroSnobs can suck it…
 
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