quote:Correct, but the top 10% law isn't currently preventing us from limiting enrollment growth since only about half the incoming freshman are in the top 10%. Stopping enrollment growth starts with Mike Young raising admission standards.
Like I said, the push will need to come from President Young and Chancellor Sharp.
80,000 A&M students in 10 years
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quote:quote:Correct, but the top 10% law isn't currently preventing us from limiting enrollment growth since only about half the incoming freshman are in the top 10%. Stopping enrollment growth starts with Mike Young raising admission standards.
Like I said, the push will need to come from President Young and Chancellor Sharp.
If we capped enrollment today then we would have to raise standards every year and within 15 years only top 10% could become Aggies. There would be no exceptions. After 15 years we would have to get the legislature to decrease the top 10% to 9, 8 ,7, etc to keep enrollment at 2015 levels.
quote:quote:quote:Correct, but the top 10% law isn't currently preventing us from limiting enrollment growth since only about half the incoming freshman are in the top 10%. Stopping enrollment growth starts with Mike Young raising admission standards.
Like I said, the push will need to come from President Young and Chancellor Sharp.
If we capped enrollment today then we would have to raise standards every year and within 15 years only top 10% could become Aggies. There would be no exceptions. After 15 years we would have to get the legislature to decrease the top 10% to 9, 8 ,7, etc to keep enrollment at 2015 levels.
Great! Sounds like Jeff came up with an excellent plan to elevate our university.
Except that Jeff's numbers are speculative and depend upon the assumption that we remain as attractive to HS seniors as we are now. His scenario borders on hyperbole.
quote:
Except that Jeff's numbers are speculative and depend upon the assumption that we remain as attractive to HS seniors as we are now. His scenario borders on hyperbole.
My numbers continue a trend that is consistent in every DARS report which went back to 2001. You're the one speculating that something is going to break this trend. You love to post your opinion but you're terrible at research.
quote:quote:quote:Correct, but the top 10% law isn't currently preventing us from limiting enrollment growth since only about half the incoming freshman are in the top 10%. Stopping enrollment growth starts with Mike Young raising admission standards.
Like I said, the push will need to come from President Young and Chancellor Sharp.
If we capped enrollment today then we would have to raise standards every year and within 15 years only top 10% could become Aggies. There would be no exceptions. After 15 years we would have to get the legislature to decrease the top 10% to 9, 8 ,7, etc to keep enrollment at 2015 levels.
This assumes that we capped enrollment without capping the percentage of the class that was auto-admitted. The legal framework to cap enrollment without having an 80%, 90%, or 100% auto-admitted class already exists and is in practice in Austin.
Doesn't seem like a crazy assumption that a decision to cap enrollment would be accompanied by a plan to cap the percentage of students automatically admitted.
quote:Jeff, what is the purpose of pejorative comments like that?
You love to post your opinion but you're terrible at research.
You know nothing about me, my motivations, nor what research I have or have not done, nor discussions I may have had with people who know more than us, nor how recently.
Texags is a valuable place for Aggies to have an online "coffee shop" together. Why the animosity? If I've personally offended you, it was inadvertent and I apologize. Rereading what I wrote perhaps the word "hyperbole" was insensitive and offensive to you, if so, I'm sorry for that.
However, I do disagree with you, and (obviously) from my perspective my reasons are every bit as legitimate as yours.
And just to throw it in, I have had a discussion very recently with someone that works in a responsible capacity on campus, and we are very much in agreement. You may not agree with nor respect my opinions, but I am far from alone in holding them.
Let's forget about changing the top 10% law for a moment and consider our options as it stands currently.
37.6% of TAMU applicants in Fall 2014 were in the top 10%. 5,797 (49.85%) of those 11,628 top 10% applicants enrolled.
Option 1) President Young could make the acceptance rate 38% and have a freshman class of about 5,800. A&M would soar up the rankings (ahead of UT) and those students would get a much better education in much smaller classes.
Option 2) President Young could accept that 38% (as required by law) and accept another 10% holistically and end up with a 48% acceptance rate and a class of about 7,251 students. This is the model UT is using.
Option 3) -Current Method- Right now A&M is receiving 30,874 applications and accepting 21,888 of them (70.89%). 47.21% enroll so you get a class size of 10,333.
I can tell you we're currently using option 3 because the class of 2019 will be another record breaking freshman class - 10,400 students. UT is expecting 7200. Link
WE SHOULD NOT have a larger class than UT when they're receiving more and better applicants. This is why the gap is widening between the two schools in the rankings.
http://dars.tamu.edu/dars/files/b5/b5ce761a-3e04-4f56-8936-fc8efe4d7563.pdf
37.6% of TAMU applicants in Fall 2014 were in the top 10%. 5,797 (49.85%) of those 11,628 top 10% applicants enrolled.
Option 1) President Young could make the acceptance rate 38% and have a freshman class of about 5,800. A&M would soar up the rankings (ahead of UT) and those students would get a much better education in much smaller classes.
Option 2) President Young could accept that 38% (as required by law) and accept another 10% holistically and end up with a 48% acceptance rate and a class of about 7,251 students. This is the model UT is using.
Option 3) -Current Method- Right now A&M is receiving 30,874 applications and accepting 21,888 of them (70.89%). 47.21% enroll so you get a class size of 10,333.
I can tell you we're currently using option 3 because the class of 2019 will be another record breaking freshman class - 10,400 students. UT is expecting 7200. Link
WE SHOULD NOT have a larger class than UT when they're receiving more and better applicants. This is why the gap is widening between the two schools in the rankings.
http://dars.tamu.edu/dars/files/b5/b5ce761a-3e04-4f56-8936-fc8efe4d7563.pdf
One step forward would be to eliminate General Studies from the CS campus.
No plan? Get out of the way.
No plan? Get out of the way.
quote:quote:quote:Correct, but the top 10% law isn't currently preventing us from limiting enrollment growth since only about half the incoming freshman are in the top 10%. Stopping enrollment growth starts with Mike Young raising admission standards.
Like I said, the push will need to come from President Young and Chancellor Sharp.
If we capped enrollment today then we would have to raise standards every year and within 15 years only top 10% could become Aggies. There would be no exceptions. After 15 years we would have to get the legislature to decrease the top 10% to 9, 8 ,7, etc to keep enrollment at 2015 levels.
That's what flagship universities are supposed to do. Become elite. The best. You know... excellence.
Good post, ball fan. Ironically, (re)building an elite R&D university is not rocket science in principle.
Great post!
quote:If we do that it's highly likely that over time a larger percentage of those accepted would enroll and we would get some growth, but due to excellence, not perfunctory goals.
Option 1) President Young could make the acceptance rate 38% and have a freshman class of about 5,800. A&M would soar up the rankings (ahead of UT) and those students would get a much better education in much smaller classes.
quote:
Let's forget about changing the top 10% law for a moment and consider our options as it stands currently.
37.6% of TAMU applicants in Fall 2014 were in the top 10%. 5,797 (49.85%) of those 11,628 top 10% applicants enrolled.
Option 1) President Young could make the acceptance rate 38% and have a freshman class of about 5,800. A&M would soar up the rankings (ahead of UT) and those students would get a much better education in much smaller classes.
Option 2) President Young could accept that 38% (as required by law) and accept another 10% holistically and end up with a 48% acceptance rate and a class of about 7,251 students. This is the model UT is using.
Option 3) -Current Method- Right now A&M is receiving 30,874 applications and accepting 21,888 of them (70.89%). 47.21% enroll so you get a class size of 10,333.
I can tell you we're currently using option 3 because the class of 2019 will be another record breaking freshman class - 10,400 students. UT is expecting 7200. Link
WE SHOULD NOT have a larger class than UT when they're receiving more and better applicants. This is why the gap is widening between the two schools in the rankings.
[url=http://dars.tamu.edu/dars/files/b5/b5ce761a-3e04-4f56-8936-fc8efe4d7563.pdf][/url]http://dars.tamu.edu/dars/files/b5/b5ce761a-3e04-4f56-8936-fc8efe4d7563.pdf
I'll take option 1.
Your link for tu is from 2013, not 2015. The article is 2 years old.
Same numbers you used. Do you have any substantive comments?
quote:
Same numbers you used. Do you have any substantive comments?
I did not use 2013 tu numbers and claimed they were 2015. You're a pathological liar sir. And it is a substantial comment to point out inaccuracies in people's posts.
Again with perjoratives. Sad...
And the .pdf in that link shows "Fall 2014" just as quoted.
And the .pdf in that link shows "Fall 2014" just as quoted.
Fall 2014 numbers are the most recent. Clearly they won't have Fall 2015 numbers until the Fall 2015 class actually enrolls. I believe 15th day of classes (or thereabouts) are the official numbers.
quote:
I can tell you we're currently using option 3 because the class of 2019 will be another record breaking freshman class - 10,400 students. UT is expecting 7200. Link
Cecil - read carefully. The sentence clearly states class of 2019 which is this falls incoming class and it clearly states tu is expecting 7200 and then provides a link as proof. The link is from an article dated March 27, 2013. And the article clearly states they are talking about the class of 2017 which were freshman in the fall of 2013.
That a typo, not a "lie". It astounds me that one Aggie is so quick to call other Aggies a "liar". The conclusions still are apt.
quote:
That a typo, not a "lie.
You sound like Clinton when he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". You got caught. Keep spinning.
No, Jeff, there was no "caught". And since the UT class sizes are (relatively) static his logic applies anyway.
Frankly, it seems to me that, perhaps, you are feeling "caught" as his logic of the three options is very good.
Which of those three options do you prefer?
Frankly, it seems to me that, perhaps, you are feeling "caught" as his logic of the three options is very good.
Which of those three options do you prefer?
I'm a very concerned alumnus. It's the engineering school that's going to receive most of the increased enrollment. I'm worried about the "Texas A&M Engineering" brand being reduced to community college classes. What will happen to the reputation of the engineering school after enrollment is doubled? How many professors will leave? As a concerned former student, these are the questions I'll be asking before writing another check to Texas A&M.
quote:quote:
mkyoung@tamu.edu
I wonder how many upset people in this thread actually took the time to email President Young.
You can bet I will!
It doesn't look like they're planning to slow enrollment growth any time soon.
Brazos County commissioners sign off on $335M Texas A&M dorm project
Brazos County commissioners sign off on $335M Texas A&M dorm project
quote:
Brazos County commissioners have signed off on public-private bond issue for a proposed $335 million Texas A&M University dormitory project.
The 3,412-bed student housing facility is planned for 48 acres on George Bush Drive between Penberthy Road and Marion Pugh Drive north of Luther Street West in College Station.
Had a meeting the other day that reminded me that there are issues with growth per se, and additional issues that are side effects. We're seeing more and more cases where incoming students can't get admitted to their desired major. But they, or their families, want to be Ags so badly that instead of finding another school where they could get into that major, they will shop for another major with similar course requirements in the hopes of getting accepted as a major change later on.
We've actually had parents complain to our advising office about their kids having to take required courses in our major because it takes away from their ability to take courses they need to switch to another major. We also see kids who are in overall good standing but who are trapped in a situation where they don't have the grades to graduate in our major and who can't get into another major.
We've been told to be more "transfer-friendly". But we're hearing that advisors somewhere are telling students to enroll as one of ours in order to try to switch later. It doesn't help the quality of the education for the students who want to be ours to have a bunch of classmates who'd rather be somewhere else.
btw, I'm hearing that about 2/3 of STEM majors on campus don't graduate in the major they started with.
We've actually had parents complain to our advising office about their kids having to take required courses in our major because it takes away from their ability to take courses they need to switch to another major. We also see kids who are in overall good standing but who are trapped in a situation where they don't have the grades to graduate in our major and who can't get into another major.
We've been told to be more "transfer-friendly". But we're hearing that advisors somewhere are telling students to enroll as one of ours in order to try to switch later. It doesn't help the quality of the education for the students who want to be ours to have a bunch of classmates who'd rather be somewhere else.
btw, I'm hearing that about 2/3 of STEM majors on campus don't graduate in the major they started with.
Too Many !!
Look at the person on your right and the person on your left. They will not be here when you graduate.
Simply look at all prestigious universities in the US and look at their acceptance rates, and the caliber of student they require to get in, that is in direct opposite direction of what is being proposed now.
quote:Pretty much exactly.
Simply look at all prestigious universities in the US and look at their acceptance rates, and the caliber of student they require to get in, that is in direct opposite direction of what is being proposed now.
Keep in mind the population of Texas was about 14 million in 1980, now 35 years later it is 27 million. Texas could have 50 million by 2050 if this growth keeps up. That is 23 million more people than we have now. 23 million is more people than resides in every single state today except for Texas and California.
I can't remember the exact student population at A&M in 1980, but I think it was around 30,000, so it doesn't surprise me that it's close to 60,000 today given the growth of population. I don't think the growth in students is because admin is lowering the bar, it appears to me that the bar is the same but there are a helluva lot more Texans each year.
States like Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania don't have population explosion problems, so I can see where they can keep their enrollment constant.
Sidenote - I'm please to see A&M getting money from the legislature per the story I read on Texags front page this week. If we are going to see more students then the taxpayers need to provide more money to educate those students,unless the goal is to turn A&M into a private school.
I can't remember the exact student population at A&M in 1980, but I think it was around 30,000, so it doesn't surprise me that it's close to 60,000 today given the growth of population. I don't think the growth in students is because admin is lowering the bar, it appears to me that the bar is the same but there are a helluva lot more Texans each year.
States like Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania don't have population explosion problems, so I can see where they can keep their enrollment constant.
Sidenote - I'm please to see A&M getting money from the legislature per the story I read on Texags front page this week. If we are going to see more students then the taxpayers need to provide more money to educate those students,unless the goal is to turn A&M into a private school.
As we've discussed at length, it's a granularity issue. Grow some of the smaller schools and increase the overall quality in the state. There's a reason that no prestigious university has chosen the route we're choosing.
So the proportional growth argument applies, but not just to the enrollment of TAMU-CS. There has to be an optimum maximum. IMO we've passed it. Get A&M-Kingsville/Commerce/San Antonio/etc into the 20 and 30 thousand range first, if proportional growth of quality education in the state is the goal.
And of course the elephant in the room is why hasn't the University of Texas adopted the model we are pursuing?
So the proportional growth argument applies, but not just to the enrollment of TAMU-CS. There has to be an optimum maximum. IMO we've passed it. Get A&M-Kingsville/Commerce/San Antonio/etc into the 20 and 30 thousand range first, if proportional growth of quality education in the state is the goal.
And of course the elephant in the room is why hasn't the University of Texas adopted the model we are pursuing?
Forget Texas...
Why is U of Phoenix the only one that HAS?
Why is U of Phoenix the only one that HAS?
if the increase is all females -- what's the problem? Lord knows A&M needs more babes on campus, or least that's how I remember it.
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