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80,000 A&M students in 10 years

293,195 Views | 1687 Replies | Last: 10 mo ago by Bill Superman
GregZeppelin
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AG
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When you're looking that far in the future there is another school which needs to be considered. Today, Texas State **pause for eye roll and/or laughing** has an acceptance rate of 73.8% and is in a geographically advantageous location between two growing cities. In 5-10 years it should easily pass Tech as the #3 public university in the state (it already has a larger enrollment than Tech). If A&M continues to move down it will likely meet Texas State in the middle as it moves up in the world.


I would agree regarding Texas State. That school has made great strides over the last 10 years or so.


Plus they have that T star on their seal.


catfan
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Sounds like Arizona State
Sq 17
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Acceptance rate of 70% is not a very relevant indicator of anything
simply because acceptance standards are pretty well known
Kids who know they won't get in don't bother which drives up the acceptance rate

still 80,000 is way too many kids for many reasons
ed65
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Yeah we should have capped it at 7,000 remain strictly a military school and not let the ladies in
cecil77
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AG
That's a non sequitur. If that logic applies, being against any change is the same as being against the change from all male, all military.

biobioprof
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A&M outgrew its land grant mission, it outgrew its mission to be a military college, it outgrew its mission to only educate young men, and it'll continue to grow into a top 10 university because that's what the state needs. The mission of A&M will continue to evolve to serve the state's needs.

Starred. The only thing I'd add is that A&M has never had only one mission.
AgCPA
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It will be another 50 years before TAMU even approaches the top ten if the school grows as fast as they are talking about. Most of the measures are directly impacted by student population..
TXAggie2011
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AG
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A&M outgrew its land grant mission, it outgrew its mission to be a military college, it outgrew its mission to only educate young men, and it'll continue to grow into a top 10 university because that's what the state needs. The mission of A&M will continue to evolve to serve the state's needs.

Starred. The only thing I'd add is that A&M has never had only one mission.
The problem is we won't grow into a Top 10 university just because that's what this state needs.

We'll grow into a Top 10 university because our leadership does the things it takes to make A&M a Top 10 university.
AgCPA
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AG
A professor involved early on with the vision 2020 effort told me that if TAMU simply reduced the student population by a certain number, it would make the top ten. Granted this was several years ago and things have changed. However, his point was that most of the measures used to determine this are simply student population to x ratios, students to faculty, students to books and on and on. So increasing student population this fast is counterproductive to becoming top ten. My thoughts are that truth be told, the idea of achieving that rank is not the real goal anymore even though it is occasionally paid lip service. The actions don't seem to make sense if that was really the goal. But I must also admit, I have never thought making the top ten to be something necessary to be a top school. TAMU is already number one in my book...
bogustrumper
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80,000? $$$$$$$

How many will be turned away? Think of the revenue ($75.00) per application of those kids accepted and rejected!!!

Ridiculous.

A&M is in a spiral downward. These clowns are ruining the school and will eventually turn it into a mediocre mega university like Arizona State (76,000 now).

JeffHamilton82
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Texags broke
TexasRebel
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Undergraduate programs have essentially become an extension of high school over the past few decades.

I think the increased enrollment is going to be a huge strain on the local infrastructure, but it will help Texas A&M's quality of research tremendously. The sheepskin mill will pump out worthless undergraduate degrees and those who are actually supposed to have been admitted will continue on to graduate school.

Remember how first year classes were once used to weed out those who couldn't cut it? That's now a 5 year program.
biobioprof
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Undergraduate programs have essentially become an extension of high school over the past few decades.

I think the increased enrollment is going to be a huge strain on the local infrastructure, but it will help Texas A&M's quality of research tremendously. The sheepskin mill will pump out worthless undergraduate degrees and those who are actually supposed to have been admitted will continue on to graduate school.

Remember how first year classes were once used to weed out those who couldn't cut it? That's now a 5 year program.
Research excellence doesn't work that way. The ones you're talking about will go to grad school elsewhere after getting their rings.
TexasRebel
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Fortunately, not all of them.

Academic diversity is not a bad thing. I'd like to think it spreads improvement in research practices. I know that the politics often stifle new faculty and students from introducing things that aren't, "what we've always done"
Ragoo
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Won't cheapen my education. Won't change my work ethic. Why so many on here care so much is beyond me.
Captain Augustus McCrae
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Won't cheapen my education. Won't change my work ethic. Why so many on here care so much is beyond me.
The same reason you donate to the university. They care about it and they don't want to see it turned into a diploma mill like Arizona State.
Captain Augustus McCrae
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Arizona State:

80.2% acceptance rate
67,507 undergrads
Ranked 129th by USN&WR
Known as a "Diploma Mill"

Why is A&M trying so hard to be Arizona State?

Why does Karan Watson still have a job?
ABATTBQ11
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AG
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UT is capping at 50K. They'll get the best and brightest. The rest will go to A&M.
Well, the UT-System realizes they have other campuses across the state that students can go as to not require an overgrown flagship campus.


They also have no more room
TAMU bball fan
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They also have no more room
They can't build multi-story buildings? How are they building the new Dell medical school?

/facepalm
TAMU bball fan
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Why does Karan Watson still have a job?
Ragoo
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AG
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Won't cheapen my education. Won't change my work ethic. Why so many on here care so much is beyond me.
The same reason you donate to the university. They care about it and they don't want to see it turned into a diploma mill like Arizona State.
right, the California schools would allow a diploma mill in the Pac-12.
TXAggie2011
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Won't cheapen my education. Won't change my work ethic. Why so many on here care so much is beyond me.
The same reason you donate to the university. They care about it and they don't want to see it turned into a diploma mill like Arizona State.
right, the California schools would allow a diploma mill in the Pac-12.


Unless they want to kick ASU out of the conference, there isn't much they can do.

And yes, even folks from ASU know it's a diploma mill.
Sid Farkas
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Presupposing Armageddon b/c the university is likely set to grow like it did successfully under Rudder. Hmm.

Nowhere did anyone ever use the 80k figure referenced in the thread title. It's all a red herring folks. Read the entire thread.

The dewschbags here with an axe to grind against school admin are utterly and hopelessly relentless. Here's to hoping any gullible goofs out there see it as the circle jerk it really is.
lb3
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cecil77
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The growth proposed now has nothing to do with the growth under Rudder.
lb3
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TXAggie2011
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The growth proposed now has nothing to do with the growth under Rudder.
But is has everything to do with the state's population growth.

In 1980 A&M had 33.5k students when the population of Texas was about 15M. With 56k students on campus today, the ratio of students/population is exactly the same. By 2030 when the state population is projected to be 33M, A&M will need to have 73k students to keep the same market share. But today's Texas economy needs far more engineers and STEM workers than the economy of 1980. We're not going to become a diploma mill.
With all due respect to the A&M and its student population of 1980, it wasn't exactly challenging Berkeley or Virginia or you name it well renowned and respected school.

Anyways, the growth between 1980 and 2015 was 22.5 thousand. That's 22.5 thousand over 35 years. That's 750 students per year...and that includes our huge growth in just the past few school years.

Last year we had less 53,000, counting Qatar, Galveston, Law, and distance education. Now you say we have 56,000? That's 3,000 in one year.

Take out this past year and we grew by 19.5 thousand over 29 years. That's 672 additional students per year. We grew by nearly 5 times that pace in the past year.

The fear isn't necessarily that we'll get too big. While that is a fear, a major part of it is that we will get too big, too fast.

There is a lot more than matching raw state population growth that goes into sustainable growth.

Another fact I find interesting is this: In 1980, there were 3 schools in the A&M system. Now, there are 11 (or 12 if you count Qatar). There are plenty of places available now to keep the A&M system's "market share" without risking the quality of the main campus. And shoot, we might even IMPROVE the quality of the main campus by being careful with enrollment and growing other campuses.

And that's what I don't understand entirely. Yes, we need more STEM graduates, but our main campus isn't the only organ we have to meet that need. It is far from it. The opportunity exists to meet that need, but also sustain and hopefully improve the quality of the main campus. And that is by building up other campuses.

The UT-System is doing it that way by capping enrollment at UT-Austin and improving UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington and others....and I think we can to.

Is it harder with only 1/3rd of the PUF? Yeah, but there's a way to make it happen. I'm sure of it.


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Rice is sometimes called the Harvard of the South. If we want to compete with them we will need to match their enrollment of about 6,500. That's not who we are.
No, we wouldn't. Rice is small and Rice is a good place to receive an education, but being that small isn't a necessity.

The other so-called "Southern Ivies" have 14, 15,000+ students.

Of the "public ivies", Berkeley has something like 36,000. UNC something like 30,000, UT-Austin of course has 50,000.

A lot of them have a larger portion of graduate students, yes.
gopgabe
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Suppose I ignore Sharp and the BOR for a sec...


I and another Ag mentioned earlier we heard about the 25 x 25 program and asked questions directly to those responsible. The class was filled with people much smarter than you and I.

The response was one that completely ignored student opinion. It also was met with answers that had severe ambiguity.

Couple that with professors directly telling me we don't have the infrastructure to expand the way they'd like. And what do you get Sid?

1.) They were ambiguous about their intent.
Why would you not have all the answers as to why you're expanding an extremely successful engineering department when you've begun committing to the change?
You should know the reason for a program before doing the program. Their reason is "we need more STEM graduates." Do we have a 100% hire rate? No. Clearly, what we + other unis are producing is in excess of what the market demands.

2.) Profs mentioning that we don't have the infrastructure.
I've also SEEN this firsthand. Us and another class taking Electronics had to share a room with not nearly enough space.

Please, tell me more about how these DIRECT experiences with a program related to university expansion that was approved by the administration is a red herring?
lb3
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AG
cecil77
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Which brings us back to the inappropriateness of "increase enrollment" being a goal. If enrollment increases, it should be as a consequence of providing an excellent education.
civil77
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When I attended University Night in fall 1973, President Williams mentioned enrollment at the main campus was 18,000. Fall enrollment increases were reported for each of the three following academic years, (1974, 1975, and 1976), and at spring commencement ceremonies in 1977, enrollment was reported to be 28,000. I cannot remember if this was current enrollment at spring graduation or projected enrollment for the upcoming fall semester........ what is significant is that enrollment increased by 10,000 over a three or four year period. The growth was noticeable, but not a detriment to my experiences at A&M.

Any conversations from this era regarding A&M becoming a diploma mill or an A&M degree losing value have faded from memory. Hot topics then were female students being admitted to the Corps and the FTA Band. These too have come to pass, the sky didn't fall, and Sully has not relinquished his post.

Here is a link to comments made this century regarding growth and land grant status.

http://today.tamu.edu/2011/09/06/enrollment-surpasses-50000-for-first-time-in-history/

Ross Street
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I emailed Chancellor Sharp about this and he insists the Chancellor's role is not to dictate to any of the universities on academic policy. His role is to get them the resources they need to accomplish their goals. So he respectfully refers you to the president and provost on the question of accepting too many students.

Has anyone gotten a response from Karan Watson or Michael Young?
Richardson Zone
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With comparable tuitions, another "land grant" university is kicking our ass:

University of California--Berkeley
Ranking: 20th Nationally, 1st among public universities
Enrollment: 25,951
In-state tuition and fees: $13,844 (2014-15)
Acceptance Rate: 17.7%

Texas A&M University--College Station
Ranking: 68th Nationally, 25th among public universities
Enrollment: 62,185
In-state tuition and fees: $9,180 (2014-15)
Acceptance Rate: 69%
Richardson Zone
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Also, it's worth noting that the UC System is kicking The TAMU System's ass.

Top Public Schools
1) UC-Berkeley
2) UCLA
--
8) UC-San Diego
9) UC-Davis
10) UC-Santa Barbara
11) UC-Irvine

While the UC system has 6 schools in the top 11, there are no TAMU system schools in the top 20, and only one that is ranked anywhere (College Station) out of 12 schools.
Sid Farkas
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AG
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The growth proposed now has nothing to do with the growth under Rudder.
Deft use of the Socratic method against my argument there cece.

...did I say 'deft'? I meant 'daft'...

...reminds me of me of Mr Vibrating character in Monty Python's argument clinic sketch:

http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

An argument isn't simply contradiction.

Remind me again what state univ system you've run that makes you qualified to have such specific opinions re: A&M's long term plans
 
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