Perception is reality. If those are the rankings being distributed throughout the U.S., in multiple newspapers and publications, that's what people "see", doesn't matter how accurate or how they came up with the numbers. Most people aren't going to go through that kind of quantitative analysis of each ranking, when looks at 10-20 schools their kid may be applying to.
80,000 A&M students in 10 years
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Last: 10 mo ago by Bill Superman
quote:I hope all the bad things in life happen to you, and to no one else but you.quote:My kids are going to Texas.
UT is capping at 50K and trying to reduce back to 45K.
quote:
How bright is the kid and his or her parents...
I have a daughter entering her Senior year at Darmouth College. The rankings meant something ("something" not "everything") to her. Especially Darmouth's #1 ranking in undergraduate teaching. She's pretty bright.
This entire board would be pounding its chest if A&M were climbing those rankings. If we passed Texas it would be the most important stat in the world. Guess this is like recruit star rankings back when we stunk and convinced ourselves they didn't matter.
quote:quote:My kids are going to Texas.
UT is capping at 50K and trying to reduce back to 45K.
Well my kids will probably go to a&m. They certainly won't go to texas. And I am 99pct sure that my kids are a hell of a lot smarter than your kids.
tbirdspur2010
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quote:
This entire board would be pounding its chest if A&M were climbing those rankings. If we passed Texas it would be the most important stat in the world. Guess this is like recruit star rankings back when we stunk and convinced ourselves they didn't matter.
Same line of thinking too.. " if they aren't smart enough to check the quantitative philosophy and input rationalization, then they don't deserve to come here" ... "If they don't want to work hard and do things the right way, this is the wrong team for them"
quote:
According to the Houston chronicle last year, Texas A&M accepted 67% of their applicants. This was more than schools such as Sam Houston, sfa, Texas tech, tu, Baylor, Dallas baptist and so on. It is now easier to get into TAMU than Sam Houston? To me, that is embarrassing.
Acceptance rate is not a meaningful statistic when it comes to rating a school. There are many who never apply to A&M because they are not in the automatic qualifier status and very few get in otherwise. WhIle Sam Houston accepts more people on holistic reviews so there are many more applicants that hope they can get in.
presented without opinion. anybody got previous years so we can track over time. also, if i remember correctly the SAT changed and added a writing portion. can new army confirm?
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=759
http://www.acceptancerate.com/schools/texas-a-m-university-college-station
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=759
http://www.acceptancerate.com/schools/texas-a-m-university-college-station
quote:quote:
This entire board would be pounding its chest if A&M were climbing those rankings. If we passed Texas it would be the most important stat in the world. Guess this is like recruit star rankings back when we stunk and convinced ourselves they didn't matter.
Same line of thinking too.. " if they aren't smart enough to check the quantitative philosophy and input rationalization, then they don't deserve to come here" ... "If they don't want to work hard and do things the right way, this is the wrong team for them"
I bet they don't even like the band
quote:
UTSA now has stricter admissions than A&M
UTSA
Top 25% or top 50% with SAT above 1100
A&M
Top 10% or top 25% with SAT above 1300
there is an 800 point writing section, but for admission usually they only look at math+reading
quote:quote:This years freshman class was the biggest in history. Someone was not accurate if you believe only the top 8% was accepted. I know of one person admitted with no restrictions that was in the top 15% and only scored a 1050 on SAT.quote:quote:
Get rid of that damn top 10% rule and then you can start to restrict who comes in you get this stat from? My son is a freshman at A&M. In his class, according to the admission department, only 300 students who were not automatic admits got into A&M. Texas has a much higher level of non-automatic admits by design. This is why they only accept the top 8%.
Top 8% was Texas, who is down to top 7% for this year. They then accept 25% of their class on holistic review. So those with lesser rankings that have something special like senators kids, an underrepresented minority, a special academic ability, an athlete or something.
For the person that you know, they were not an automatic freshman enrollee. They had something in their holistic review that made them special. Or are you talking about a transfer student?
quote:It wont...yes...how has growth in enrollment over the last 40 yrs hurt the value of an A&M degree?
I DO NOT WANT MY DEGREE DEVALUED! BUT INCREASED ENROLLMENT OVER THE LAST 33 YEARS HAS NOT DEVALUED IT. SO I NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY CONTINUED INCREASES AS LONG AS THEY ARE REASONABLE WILL DEVALUE MY DEGREE.
Consider that question rhetorical kiddos...because the reply "but, but john sharp is a dick" just ain't gonna convince me tonite.
quote:
This entire board would be pounding its chest if A&M were climbing those rankings. If we passed Texas it would be the most important stat in the world. Guess this is like recruit star rankings back when we stunk and convinced ourselves they didn't matter.
These aren't 247 composite rankings. These are Ketch rankings. No one takes Ketch's rankings seriously.
quote:quote:
This entire board would be pounding its chest if A&M were climbing those rankings. If we passed Texas it would be the most important stat in the world. Guess this is like recruit star rankings back when we stunk and convinced ourselves they didn't matter.
These aren't 247 composite rankings. These are Ketch rankings. No one takes Ketch's rankings seriously.
A lot of people take them seriously
Some of yall need to take a look at what infrastructure is getting bid out for campus facilities (classrooms, labs and dorms) and then take scope of the private development happening around College Station.
I'd be surprised if we didn't have 60,000+ in five years.
I'd be surprised if we didn't have 60,000+ in five years.
I may be pretty new to texags, but it sure doesn't take long to figure out how intellectually superior Sid Farkas is compared to everyone else. I wish I knew better than everyone just like him.
quote:It's not that I'm so smart...its that you're so...
I may be pretty new to texags, but it sure doesn't take long to figure out how intellectually superior Sid Farkas is compared to everyone else. I wish I knew better than everyone just like him.
I'm glad you are able to thoroughly measure my intellect by my concern for my education and future. I don't give a crap if someone disagrees with me or someone acts like a dick on the internet, but when they can't have a discussion without immediately throwing insults, it really doesn't make em sound like the sharpest tool in the shed. I don't think I've ever seen you have a real discussion with someone, and I'm just thankful I don't have the pleasure of knowing you in real life.
Arright. Big Internet hug for marklar. No hard feelings dude.
I've only been out of school for five years, but I strongly believe that things like art, philosophy, and history are important to learn for anyone. That said, being a well-rounded human being is my job. When I'm shelling out tens of thousands of dollars for an engineering degree, I want to get a high quality, practical education with a good reputation to help me land a great first job. That absolutely needs to include the development of creativity, communication skills, and critical thinking. Those blowoff auditorium arts classes we all slept through do NOT achieve that, so either revamp the whole idea or let it go.
We don't have to be the school for everyone. That's why we have system schools. From the mission statement: "[Texas A&M's] mission of providing the highest quality undergraduate and graduate programs is inseparable from its mission of developing new understandings through research and creativity.... In the twenty-first century, Texas A&M University seeks to assume a place of preeminence among public universities while respecting its history and traditions."
It is at least theoretically possible that we could offer that to 80,000 students, but on a practical level we appear to be expanding too fast to successfully scale quality. There are signs that this is the case. Certain departments have a difficult time attracting and keeping good professors. A&M is rapidly dropping in rankings that elite students use when selecting a university. Those rankings may not be perfect, but as a relative, approximate measure of our reputation and trend they are useful.
Talking about 25x25 in particular, the dearth of good engineers has nothing to do with the number of slots in engineering schools. The problem is the lack of qualified minds. Throwing open the doors 18 years into a student's life doesn't fix that. If it results in diluting teaching and physical resources among too many students, then we may end up with fewer good engineers.
I am worried about what appears to be ego-driven empire building at the expense of what should be one of the great institutions in education.
We don't have to be the school for everyone. That's why we have system schools. From the mission statement: "[Texas A&M's] mission of providing the highest quality undergraduate and graduate programs is inseparable from its mission of developing new understandings through research and creativity.... In the twenty-first century, Texas A&M University seeks to assume a place of preeminence among public universities while respecting its history and traditions."
It is at least theoretically possible that we could offer that to 80,000 students, but on a practical level we appear to be expanding too fast to successfully scale quality. There are signs that this is the case. Certain departments have a difficult time attracting and keeping good professors. A&M is rapidly dropping in rankings that elite students use when selecting a university. Those rankings may not be perfect, but as a relative, approximate measure of our reputation and trend they are useful.
Talking about 25x25 in particular, the dearth of good engineers has nothing to do with the number of slots in engineering schools. The problem is the lack of qualified minds. Throwing open the doors 18 years into a student's life doesn't fix that. If it results in diluting teaching and physical resources among too many students, then we may end up with fewer good engineers.
I am worried about what appears to be ego-driven empire building at the expense of what should be one of the great institutions in education.
On the current path of some of the emerging schools in the University of Texas system, combined with our own board's clear desire for expansion of enrollment, it is clear where we are headed, and it is away from what had been the model with dual flagship Universities. We are now headed toward what will be more like a hybrid of the old system with something like California's system with the A&M school's becoming the Cal State equivalent. The college station campus is in no danger of falling back to the rest of the A&M system, but as this happens, we will play right into this if we try to be a "University everyone can attend." We will also likely harm the A&M brand and reinforce the notion that we are the Cal State system of Texas compared to UT's UC. This also wont be helped by the fact that we've standardized the Texas A&M name amongst all the lesser system schools.
more kids applied to A&M than any other school in Texas.
Here's to having the oldest biggest public institution in Texas
Here's to having the oldest biggest public institution in Texas
Precisely JJxvi. Well said.
These aren't 247 composite rankings. These are Ketch rankings. No one takes Ketch's rankings seriously.
Poor analogy. The USNWR rankings are THE rankings. They are used buy everyone (except you) to tout their school. When our rankings were improving, it was right there on our web site and was touted in school PR releases. The notion that we would thump our chest if our rank was improving is 100% correct.
Poor analogy. The USNWR rankings are THE rankings. They are used buy everyone (except you) to tout their school. When our rankings were improving, it was right there on our web site and was touted in school PR releases. The notion that we would thump our chest if our rank was improving is 100% correct.
quote:
Top 10% receive automatic admission but we are admitting more students today that are not in the top 10% . Students with grades that would not have made it 3 years ago are now being admitted with no restrictions. Even those students that are being turned down are now being sent to Blinn and most are receiving automatic admission after 2 years of course work. This has been a boom to Blinn as now they are building a new campus off the loop in College Station.
This is completely false. I haven't seen any numbers for this year's class yet, but our new freshman last year was the LARGEST class ever and had the HIGHEST GPAs and SAT scores if any class admitted before. Just because you let in more kids doesn't mean that standards are falling. Size of enrollment is easily the dumbest thing to ever judge a school by. Rejecting people for the sake of rejecting people is idiotic.
I also love the Texas is capping enrollment" argument. They can't put anymore buildings on their campus! They've been cutting back the top 10% rule for years now because they can't find room for students anymore. If they had the land A&M does, you can bet your ass they would expand. And every media outlet out there would talk about how wonderful the great Texas is for letting more students get a premier degree
A&M = Walmart
I've no confidence that our degree will remain "premium" if these measures are pursued.
We are losing ground as it is. And yes a school can be "too big". We are already (and have been) losing some of the top students to other schools because of that.
Look, this is all a tough problem. I agree that size shouldn't be the primary metric, but that INCLUDES the desire to get bigger. What's the "right" size? I don't know. However I do know that pursuing size, as a goal, is a mistake. So when I read numbers like 80,000 as goals, rather than as consequences of excellence, it's a bad thing.
We are losing ground as it is. And yes a school can be "too big". We are already (and have been) losing some of the top students to other schools because of that.
Look, this is all a tough problem. I agree that size shouldn't be the primary metric, but that INCLUDES the desire to get bigger. What's the "right" size? I don't know. However I do know that pursuing size, as a goal, is a mistake. So when I read numbers like 80,000 as goals, rather than as consequences of excellence, it's a bad thing.
quote:
I may be pretty new to texags, but it sure doesn't take long to figure out how intellectually superior Sid Farkas is compared to everyone else. I wish I knew better than everyone just like him.
Perception can become reality. I don't think the data shows it yet in terms of student quality, but the attitude among the very top of my son's HS graduation class at a very competitive Katy high school may be a source of illumination. He graduated number 10 in his class. He was accepted to UC Berkeley but is currently at UT in part because: 1) it is a better fit for him (loves Austin and our roots are in the Hill Country), 2) UT is more selective, 3) because of number 2 the PERCEPTION among the top 2% of students in his HS is that UT is more prestigious. NOTE: my son isn't majoring in engineering but in biology.
Of the top 10 in his class 7 went to UT--the others to Rice and the Ivy League. This upcoming class is even more competitive and except for a family of Aggies whose kid is in the top 15 overall, all of the remaining top 25 kids (top 4%) are going to MIT (2 kids), the Ivy League, Stanford, Rice and UT.
So I have a homework assignment for some of you still on campus. Can you find out what percent of A&M's incoming class graduated in the top 1%, top 2%, top 5%, top 8% (current UT cutoff), and top 10% of their class? And is there a way to get the same information from UT?
It seems to me that if the top of the top at the most competitive high schools in the suburbs of Houston, Dallas/FW, Austin and San Antonio have similar attitudes then the quality of the graduates will eventually become evident.
As someone who has recruited A&M for years for a major oil company, I don't see any difference from an engineering /technical standpoint between A&M and UT and the Mays business school has increased in quality since the 80's.
As my son said to me, "What does a UT applicant and an A&M applicant have in common? They both applied to UT". He said, it isn't close in selectivity anymore (look at acceptance rates) and the fact that A&M is top 10% vs. top 8% at UT is looked at as "proof".
Of course I defend the quality of A&M to both of my boys by showing them the report where A&M was number 2 behind Penn State for college recruiters only influences them to some degree and doesn't help inform the rest of the top 4% who have no knowledge of this fact. It seems like A&M needs to get the word out on the most selective/competitive high school campuses that the proof is in the pudding and A&M is a very good place to get a college education.
Katy is very multi-cultural with a lot of Indian and Chinese kids who excel in school and are children of engineers and scientists working for nearby energy companies. As my son repeatedly pointed out, the Asian kids consider A&M as a "redneck" school, narrow-minded, ultra-religious/fundamentalist, and rural (nothing to do). I believe that A&M is hopefully a little more diverse than that. And in my son's case the and class that is behind him, Asian kids make up 8 of the top 10 kids overall and 70% of the top 25.
So my gut feeling is that in top 50 high schools in Texas (private and mostly suburban in the major metro areas) where the "Asian" influence/attitudes are prominent, a disproportionate number of the top 4% attend UT. I am guessing that the less competitive schools/more rural may skew more towards A&M. And by "most competitive", I am talking about high schools with very high SAT scores (raw talent).
If someone can find those numbers it would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to get it from A&M.
Thanks
Of the top 10 in his class 7 went to UT--the others to Rice and the Ivy League. This upcoming class is even more competitive and except for a family of Aggies whose kid is in the top 15 overall, all of the remaining top 25 kids (top 4%) are going to MIT (2 kids), the Ivy League, Stanford, Rice and UT.
So I have a homework assignment for some of you still on campus. Can you find out what percent of A&M's incoming class graduated in the top 1%, top 2%, top 5%, top 8% (current UT cutoff), and top 10% of their class? And is there a way to get the same information from UT?
It seems to me that if the top of the top at the most competitive high schools in the suburbs of Houston, Dallas/FW, Austin and San Antonio have similar attitudes then the quality of the graduates will eventually become evident.
As someone who has recruited A&M for years for a major oil company, I don't see any difference from an engineering /technical standpoint between A&M and UT and the Mays business school has increased in quality since the 80's.
As my son said to me, "What does a UT applicant and an A&M applicant have in common? They both applied to UT". He said, it isn't close in selectivity anymore (look at acceptance rates) and the fact that A&M is top 10% vs. top 8% at UT is looked at as "proof".
Of course I defend the quality of A&M to both of my boys by showing them the report where A&M was number 2 behind Penn State for college recruiters only influences them to some degree and doesn't help inform the rest of the top 4% who have no knowledge of this fact. It seems like A&M needs to get the word out on the most selective/competitive high school campuses that the proof is in the pudding and A&M is a very good place to get a college education.
Katy is very multi-cultural with a lot of Indian and Chinese kids who excel in school and are children of engineers and scientists working for nearby energy companies. As my son repeatedly pointed out, the Asian kids consider A&M as a "redneck" school, narrow-minded, ultra-religious/fundamentalist, and rural (nothing to do). I believe that A&M is hopefully a little more diverse than that. And in my son's case the and class that is behind him, Asian kids make up 8 of the top 10 kids overall and 70% of the top 25.
So my gut feeling is that in top 50 high schools in Texas (private and mostly suburban in the major metro areas) where the "Asian" influence/attitudes are prominent, a disproportionate number of the top 4% attend UT. I am guessing that the less competitive schools/more rural may skew more towards A&M. And by "most competitive", I am talking about high schools with very high SAT scores (raw talent).
If someone can find those numbers it would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to get it from A&M.
Thanks
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Liberal arts should be there to supplement your education, not be your education. If I want to learn about the importance of women's culture through history that should be something that is offered at college.
The issue becomes when you try to make this your lifestyle. I would wager that 95% of the people in these liberal arts majors (excluding communications and English majors) don't add any real value to the world when they get out of school. In fact, if they took an honest look at themselves, I bet most of them would say that the reason that they chose to major in 18th century Russian politics is because they had no idea what they wanted to do with their lives, and this kind of interested them. There are several problems with this. For one it increases the giant student loan bubble that has been growing in America the past 20 years. Another problem is that these students inundate colleges, making a basic college degree less valuable. Since they can't find a job that is relevant to what they want to do, these kids double down on the stupidity and go to grad school in these bull**** degrees. This doubles the effects that I mentioned before: more debt for the student and the debt bubble increases, and now not only is the bachelor degree being devalued, but the masters and doctorate degree is too.
Moral of the story: Don't go to school until you know what you want to do, even if that isn't straight out of high school. Find a degree that will actually contribute some value back to the world. Unless you are the next Aristotle, then that does not include most liberal art majors. And I think everyone should take an honest look at themselves and realize they are not the next Aristotle. Feel free to supplement your degree with liberal arts classes though.
The issue becomes when you try to make this your lifestyle. I would wager that 95% of the people in these liberal arts majors (excluding communications and English majors) don't add any real value to the world when they get out of school. In fact, if they took an honest look at themselves, I bet most of them would say that the reason that they chose to major in 18th century Russian politics is because they had no idea what they wanted to do with their lives, and this kind of interested them. There are several problems with this. For one it increases the giant student loan bubble that has been growing in America the past 20 years. Another problem is that these students inundate colleges, making a basic college degree less valuable. Since they can't find a job that is relevant to what they want to do, these kids double down on the stupidity and go to grad school in these bull**** degrees. This doubles the effects that I mentioned before: more debt for the student and the debt bubble increases, and now not only is the bachelor degree being devalued, but the masters and doctorate degree is too.
Moral of the story: Don't go to school until you know what you want to do, even if that isn't straight out of high school. Find a degree that will actually contribute some value back to the world. Unless you are the next Aristotle, then that does not include most liberal art majors. And I think everyone should take an honest look at themselves and realize they are not the next Aristotle. Feel free to supplement your degree with liberal arts classes though.
quote:I am a proud 3rd generation Aggie, but we could not turn down the full-ride scholarship my daughter was given by UT-Dallas. She wanted a smaller school in the end and that was true when she started with a 10-12K enrollment, now they have 20-30k. She still wears her Aggie maroon on football Saturdays and no one really cares. I'm just glad she did not go to Tech, who offered nearly as much. ;-)
2015 U.S. News Rankings:
53) UT- Austin
68) A&M
145) UT-Dallas
156) Texas Tech
189) UH
If A&M continues to fall in the rankings and UT-Dallas continues to rise, then sure, I could see UT-Dallas competing with A&M for students. I know a current UT-Dallas student who comes from an Aggie family and turned down A&M for a full ride at UT-Dallas.
Don't care. Graduated in '02 (and '04).
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