Sweep4-2 said:

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Aside from the sport itself, one thing I really enjoy about BJJ is the huge diversity of people that train. Lots of cool people from all walks of life that I probably never would have met if not for the shared love of choking people, twisting arms, attacking knees, etc....haha.

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This. For sure. Its crazy what a mixed bag BJJ gyms are.

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Aside from the sport itself, one thing I really enjoy about BJJ is the huge diversity of people that train. Lots of cool people from all walks of life that I probably never would have would have absolutely never met if not for the shared love of choking people, twisting arms, attacking knees, etc....haha.

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What a motley bunch we are! We'll do UFC watch parties and it's hilarious to watch the reactions of the spouses/significant others. Twenty something construction worker dudes with neck tattoos hanging with 50 year old attorneys and hipster computer millennials.

Thanks for the correction, you are 100% right!

We've often solved many world problems after a rough rolling session using our diverse backgrounds.

However, one debate that was never solved was "could the average BJJ blue belt beat a starting NFL offensive lineman in a street fight?"

I don't think most people realize how big NFL players actually are. I had a few friends play in the pros and they looked weak on TV but huge in person. I think the average size of a NFL OL is around 6'4" 315. Armbars may be out of the questions and so may be chokes since you can't get around their necks. Remember they do neck workouts so they aren't like us pencil necks

P.U.T.U said:

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I don't think most people realize how big NFL players actually are. I had a few friends play in the pros and they looked weak on TV but huge in person. I think the average size of a NFL OL is around 6'4" 315. Armbars may be out of the questions and so may be chokes since you can't get around their necks. Remember they do neck workouts so they aren't like us pencil necks

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Agreed. It would have to be a choke......Or, I revert to Muay Thai, stay on my feet and chop at his knees, then go to the choke. A Take Down on an NFL player would be rough, even for a legit wrestler.

O.G. said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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I don't think most people realize how big NFL players actually are. I had a few friends play in the pros and they looked weak on TV but huge in person. I think the average size of a NFL OL is around 6'4" 315. Armbars may be out of the questions and so may be chokes since you can't get around their necks. Remember they do neck workouts so they aren't like us pencil necks

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Agreed. It would have to be a choke......Or, I revert to Muay Thai, stay on my feet and chop at his knees, then go to the choke. A Take Down on an NFL player would be rough, even for a legit wrestler.

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I think the only real chance is the cardio tap. BJJ is such a different type of physical activity that takes some acclimation to. Gotta weather the storm of their initial physicality and take thier back when they start running out of breath.

I'm a lousy, who on some good days might be called an average, blue belt that is 5'10" and 190 pounds. And I know with 100% certainty an in-shape, 6'4", 315-pound man who can bench press two of me, and squat three of me, is most likely going to kick my ass on some padded mats, despite any of my game.

In a street fight?? That ogre connects with one punch and it's lights out for any of us that aren't heavyweight boxers.

P.U.T.U said:

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I don't think most people realize how big NFL players actually are. I had a few friends play in the pros and they looked weak on TV but huge in person. I think the average size of a NFL OL is around 6'4" 315. Armbars may be out of the questions and so may be chokes since you can't get around their necks. Remember they do neck workouts so they aren't like us pencil necks

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I grew up in the country and there wasn't a big variance in the size of the guys on our football team. I didn't realize how big division 1 football players are until my first day at A&M. I walk into history 105 and a good number of football players were in the class, I had no idea there were 18 year old kids that are that big. I was 5'10" and like 150 lbs back then, I'm only like 175 now so even though I've had good rolls with some larger guys none of them are professional athletes.

I used to travel for work and once I was in NO and the Chiefs were in the same hotel. Seeing NFL offensive and defensive linemen is crazy. Tight ends and linebackers as well, they're just different.

My take on the street fight scenario is this....there is an almost 0% chance that the average blue belt could even close distance and establish inside control. I think the NFL lineman grabs them when he wants to, picks them up and slams them to the ground and it's all over.

If the blue somehow gets inside without getting slammed/KO'd, it's gonna be still gonna be really, really difficult to put a 6'4", 320 lb athletic freak-of-nature onto the ground (before they do the same to you). But this isn't blue belt bashing....I think the average black belt also gets smashed in a street fight.

I have several friends who rolled with a former starting NFL LB (about 6'3" and 275 when he trained BJJ)...and at white belt this guy was giving really, really good black belts a very rough time. Throwing in strikes would have been terrifying.

Sweep4-2 said:

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My take on the street fight scenario is this....there is an almost 0% chance that the average blue belt could even close distance and establish inside control. I think the NFL lineman grabs them when he wants to, picks them up and slams them to the ground and it's all over.

If the blue somehow gets inside without getting slammed/KO'd, it's gonna be still gonna be really, really difficult to put a 6'4", 320 lb athletic freak-of-nature onto the ground (before they do the same to you). But this isn't blue belt bashing....I think the average black belt also gets smashed in a street fight.

I have several friends who rolled with a former starting NFL LB (about 6'3" and 275 when he trained BJJ)...and at white belt this guy was giving really, really good black belts a very rough time. Throwing in strikes would have been terrifying.

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I would have to agree. I've seen a lot of practioners that only know what is taught in class. If you deviate from that, they are lost. An NFL caliber athlete is going to be an otherworldly problem for anyone, including skilled blackbelts.

If I were a betting man, I would put money on my first professor (now a 3rd degree blackbelt) because he was a former cop and had been in a lot of actual uses of force on the street. However, some of the blackbelts in other gyms that don't have that experiences, my money goes to the NFL guy.

Having said all that, I've seen lower belt guys that had other experience in wrestling/judo and so on that might come out on top.

I think the saying goes "every 25 lbs and above you is a belt level higher". I think the saying is mostly bs but if it was 50 lbs I'd start to agree more. I'm 160-170 and have rolled with 250-300+ white belts of all ranges. Some of these guys could tear your arms off at will or rain murder with their fists. My recommendation is not to get in a beef with anyone especially with someone your 150-300 lbs superior. If NFL go time happens be willing to break arms, legs and ankles otherwise…..

FancyKetchup14 said:

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I'm still laughing at this idea a blue belt could take on an NFL lineman in a street fight. What're you going to do, single leg one of those ham hocks?

These dudes wrestle grown men approximately 70 times on Sundays. You think Trent Williams is going to have a rough time with someone's De La Riva after taking on people like Myles Garrett? They're going to have no problem with a blue belt and probably 99% of BJJ practitioners for that matter. This is like asking your buddy after 10 beers if you could tackle Derrick Henry cause you both played high school football.

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Depends on the fight in the dog, not the dog in the fight.

I've seen blue belts with other backgrounds that I absolutely would bet on against higher belts or an NFL lineman. No question. I'm talking about in a real life and death fight here, not on a mat. Not for technical points.

Thats also assuming that all NFL linemen are the same. I worked in corrections for 12 years & seen A LOT of fights and the big muscled up dude against a 150lb pit bull of a man can get his arse handed to him.

If he's full of himself and has beer bravery going (See also: Bas Rutten/Brian Urlacher) but his heart pumps cool aid, a savage enough blue belt, and I have seen them, will turn him inside out.

I get what you're saying at a high level. That a very highly skilled smaller fighter can overcome a much larger opponent.

But the question my friends and I were debating was the 'average' blue belt….probably a dude in his mid-30's, average weight, height, athleticism, etc. maybe a few small tournament wins under their brand new belt. An average guy still learning the basics.

Bas Rutten, Roger Huerta, Renzo Gracie, etc….(all guys with street fight experience against bigger guys) are definitely in a different class (than my example).

Sweep4-2 said:

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I get what you're saying at a high level. That a very highly skilled smaller fighter can overcome a much larger opponent.

But the question my friends and I were debating was the 'average' blue belt….probably a dude in his mid-30's, average weight, height, athleticism, etc. maybe a few small tournament wins under their brand new belt. An average guy still learning the basics.

Bas Rutten, Roger Huerta, Renzo Gracie, etc….(all guys with street fight experience against bigger guys) are definitely in a different class (than my example).

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Agreed.

"Average" Blue Belt, no. Not likely.

However, the idea that an NFL lineman is somehow invincible against a smaller guy is pure speculation based on a lack of experience in violence.

Definitely, I think a few years ago a former NFL DL guy got KO'd badly at a Wal-Mart by an out of shape looking smaller guy. And an OU football player and his buddy got demolished in a bathroom brawl (literally) by two much smaller guys.

In both cases the larger, arrogant (in approach anyway) woke up wondering what happened.

Your average blue belt is getting worse and worse over the years unfortunately. My money is on Jason Kelce going juggernaut on those fools.

One of my training partners is an insanely athletic former d1 lineman. 6'6" 310 with a 10' broad jump and a blue belt.

I'm 220 and not strong enough to armbar him. Leg entanglements are currently my only hope but he sees those from everyone and learned to defend those faster than most.

There are some people out there just have to shoot.

Yep, some of those guys just do a curl to get out of an arm bar.

For reference, here is a video of Rener rolling against a 6xPro Bowl Defensive End

I remember that one. Two wrestler brothers. Wow did they ever beat the piss out of those football players (who definitely seemed to be the instigators).

After being at my gym a few days I think it depends on how they do their belts as well. I noticed only the owner is a black belt, even those who have been training for 10-15 years. My kids taekwondo school, soon to be ex school, they hand out belts like candy. They had a high purple belt not be able to hit a board doing a spinning back kick and still get a stripe. I know the schools have different goals and methods but I don't think handing out belts for participation teaches the kids much.

I now know what a mouse feels like that is tied up on a string that a cat is playing with. I am an almost 40 year old weighing 205 and a 61 year old 160 pound purple belt has been my drill partner for the most part. Dude can pretty much do whatever he wants without raising his heartbeat. I know what he is going to do yet can't do much to stop it.

Most BJJ schools are pretty stringent with belts, especially as they get higher up the ladder. It's a direct reflection on an instructor and if they hand out BJJ belts like candy, their school can get a bad reputation really fast via word-of-mouth.

And don't get discouraged by being worked over by a much older purple belt, it's just a good sign that he's got good skills and training at the school.

If he keeps catching you with the same sub, sweep, position, etc.....be sure to ask him for a point or two on how to address/avoid. Most upper belts freely dispense advice and appreciate being viewed as a training partner, friend, etc. rather than an opponent.

Of if you have an questions here as well.....I'm injured (running injury, not BJJ) and not able to roll at the moment. And I know better than to even get on the mats to coach b/c I'll end up rolling despite my Dr.'s warning.

So far during training I have been paired up with the older purple belts that take the time to teach me, can't complain about that at all. When we start rolling instead of doing a normal roll they either teach more base techniques or after they teach me different holds for me to get them in them and they work themselves out. Then we switch so I get a better understanding of what is trying to be done. I actually prefer the smaller guys teaching since they have had to focus on technique and not count on strength. As I said I am around 205-210 and am actually one of the smaller guys during the morning classes.

Typically we do 2:30 rounds of rolling and ask for the last 30 seconds or so if they can crique what I am doing and give me any pointers.

Bought some mats for the house so I can practice with my son as well. I have been learning a lot more techniques than him so during the weekends we can review what we learned and teach each other. Eventually I know it will lead to rolling

Sounds like you're off to a great start! And very cool that you and your son can share the journey.

One thing a lot of people do to supplement their BJJ is lift weights (which is fine). But I highly recommend adding flexibility and cardio.

No need to sign up for yoga, just go to YouTube and find a routine you'll do 4-5 days per week for 15 minutes per day when you'd otherwise be sitting on the couch. And for cardio, find a HIIT routine with a mix of 200/400/600.

Lots of people jog, but jogging does almost nothing for BJJ cardio.

P.U.T.U said:

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After being at my gym a few days I think it depends on how they do their belts as well. I noticed only the owner is a black belt, even those who have been training for 10-15 years. My kids taekwondo school, soon to be ex school, they hand out belts like candy. They had a high purple belt not be able to hit a board doing a spinning back kick and still get a stripe. I know the schools have different goals and methods but I don't think handing out belts for participation teaches the kids much.

I now know what a mouse feels like that is tied up on a string that a cat is playing with. I am an almost 40 year old weighing 205 and a 61 year old 160 pound purple belt has been my drill partner for the most part. Dude can pretty much do whatever he wants without raising his heartbeat. I know what he is going to do yet can't do much to stop it.

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Don't get discouraged, definitely know the feeling. Still happens to me........a lot.

Most purple and higher belts are glad to stop in the middle of a move and show you what they are doing, at least in my experience, so you might ask them to do what they just did in slow motion. That has helped me a lot.

If you can go to Open Mat, you can ask them to show you how they murdered you on Thursday....then they get to slowly, murder you again on Saturday.

Sweep4-2 said:

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Sounds like you're off to a great start! And very cool that you and your son can share the journey.

One thing a lot of people do to supplement their BJJ is lift weights (which is fine). But I highly recommend adding flexibility and cardio.

No need to sign up for yoga, just go to YouTube and find a routine you'll do 4-5 days per week for 15 minutes per day when you'd otherwise be sitting on the couch. And for cardio, find a HIIT routine with a mix of 200/400/600.

Lots of people jog, but jogging does almost nothing for BJJ cardio.

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Can verify. 100% true. Multiple marathon runner here and consistent runner and it does almost nothing for my BJJ cardio.

I'm a runner as well, so you'll probably find this funny. 16 years in BJJ and no real tendon/ligament injuries.

But I was pacing at the Habanero 100 this year (a horrible race) and caught a toe on a root/branch. Partial tear of my quad tendon.

Rather than rehabbing, I ran a fast 10K race (44:XX) and have had a messed up knee/tendon since.

Sweep4-2 said:

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I'm a runner as well, so you'll probably find this funny. 16 years in BJJ and no real tendon/ligament injuries.

But I was pacing at the Habanero 100 this year (a horrible race) and caught a toe on a root/branch. Partial tear of my quad tendon.

Rather than rehabbing, I ran a fast 10K race (44:XX) and have had a messed up knee/tendon since.

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I am familiar with that race. Never ran it but I did camp down there one year (2016 I think) & it poured rain. I was already injured and didn't run it.

P.U.T.U said:

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After being at my gym a few days I think it depends on how they do their belts as well. I noticed only the owner is a black belt, even those who have been training for 10-15 years. My kids taekwondo school, soon to be ex school, they hand out belts like candy. They had a high purple belt not be able to hit a board doing a spinning back kick and still get a stripe. I know the schools have different goals and methods but I don't think handing out belts for participation teaches the kids much.

I now know what a mouse feels like that is tied up on a string that a cat is playing with. I am an almost 40 year old weighing 205 and a 61 year old 160 pound purple belt has been my drill partner for the most part. Dude can pretty much do whatever he wants without raising his heartbeat. I know what he is going to do yet can't do much to stop it.

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The only belt at my gym I've seen get fast-tracked was a blue belt for a guy who was a really serious wrestler. His baseline skill set far exceeded anyone in the white belt ranks and he's able to give fits to pretty much everyone he rolls with, including the guys who've been at it for over a decade. He was still there for like 6 months before they did it but everyone else I've met up there took a minimum of 18 months to get to blue.

I've never been a part of any other martial arts but I've heard that with other disciplines it can be quick to move up, but I don't think that's a good thing. Kudos to you for realizing that. Even at white belt I don't want a stripe if I don't deserve it, let alone a another belt, but I think our gym does a good job at recognizing progress. I haven't seen anyone get promoted from white to blue that I haven't seen put in a ton of work to get there and deserve it. I've seen several guys stall out at 4 stripes, but they're all pretty inconsistent in their attendance patterns.

The point you make about the smaller and older purple belt is one reason I've been enjoying BJJ. It's one thing to get smashed but someone who's younger, bigger, and stronger. It's another to get smashed by someone who's older, smaller, and weaker, and it happens. One of the coaches at our gym is a brown belt who only weighs like 140 lbs but good luck trying to beat him. He'll have you in a choke with one of your arms trapped before you know what happened.

After traveling a lot last week for work I finally tried my first class. Definitely see why people love it!

I tried my best to respectfully folllow along. I did 3 drills and had a great partner who was about to be moved up to a blue belt (I think… does that make sense? This was a beginner class). He was very helpful and gave me some light coaching as well.

I'm then watched the others roll for a couple of 5 minute rounds. Definitely looked exhausting!

Cool, glad you enjoyed the class! If you have any questions, feel free to share them. A range of experience, perspectives, etc. here.

I trained today and finished up class with five 5-minute rounds of live training (3 white belts, a black belt and a big HW brown belt). Spent the whole time defending so it was a long-feeling 25 minutes defending various side control, mount, back and N/S positions that my opponent/training partners had.

I'm 44 years old so it has been at least 20 years since I have had a legit wrestling match with somebody. I forgot how exhausting that is until I watch the class partner up and roll last night. Looking forward that workout. I think I read on the website or maybe somebody said it last night that it will probably be about two weeks before I get into that with anybody.