Livewire82 said:

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That's pretty damning if the data wasn't cherry picked and/or manipulated.

Ragoo said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Here is the list of post covid triathlon fatalities..
Google away dummy.

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I am willing to bet none are vaccine related

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You have the list.
Hit it internet detective.

Quote:

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From what I understand, the term athlete's heart refers to a heart that is somewhat enlarged because of the exercise and is not a dangerous issue and does not lead to cardiac issues. However, for someone who was sedentary, the same signs would be of strong concern.

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Depends. From the link I shared: However, in some athletes, the changes can make your heart look similar to how it looks when you have a form of cardiomyopathy. Because cardiomyopathy isn't harmless, your provider needs to know what makes athlete's heart different.

You were riding many miles.
What kind of bike did you have?

Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

CSTXAg92 said:

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Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

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I mean, yes. But she's also being sued by the anti Covid vax nonprofit she founded for using nonprofit funds to buy herself a $3MM house in Florida (among other things), so apparently a scam artist too. Maybe do just a slight bit of research on the sources before sharing them.

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/

one of the sources is a website called goodsciencing.com. i wish i were kidding.

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

they compare the goodsciencing list with an actual paper and make no attempt to correct for the different criteria. the small number is for actual athletes; the goodsciencing list is anyone who ever maybe played sports once. toss in a screenshot of a model for cumulated excess mortality that was published with a "unreliable" disclaimer et voila. a masterpiece.

what's more interesting / sad here is to see the speed at which this can propagate. people see a headline, look at some highlighted portions of a "paper" - really a letter to the editor - and retweet it. half the time the retweet summary has nothing to do with the paper itself. in this case you can't even get to it without paying and there isn't even an abstract - just a conveniently highlighted screenshot! it'll get reposted here on this forum about thirty times and next thing you know its gospel. anyone who doesn't "know" this is true is a covidiot, a communist, and probably has a bad credit score.

eric76 said:

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TxTarpon said:

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I recall some basketball players:
Jason Collier
Conrad McRae
Reggie Lewis
Pete Maravich

In 1971 the NFL lost Chuck Hughes from a heart attack on the field.
They put an oxygen mask on him and transported him off the field and kept playing.


There is something called "Athlete's Heart"
Think about it.
Pheidippides supposedly uttered "NIKE", then collapsed and died after the battle of Marathon.
Those 26 miles did him in.

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Athlete's heart?

From what I understand, the term athlete's heart refers to a heart that is somewhat enlarged because of the exercise and is not a dangerous issue and does not lead to cardiac issues. However, for someone who was sedentary, the same signs would be of strong concern.

Some years ago, I started going to a doctor who had previously been the team doctor for an international US boxing team. At the time, I rode bicycles about 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year.

One day at his office, he did an EKG on me and the interpretation from the machine was that my heart was "abnormal". I found that to be a bit alarming and asked about it. He said that the EKG machine didn't know how much I rode the bicycle. That "abnormal" persisted for some years, but now, about 40 years later, the EKG's say it is"normal".

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Similar situation. I put in 3-5k per year also, typically. Nearly hit 6k in 2022. My EKG is not normal, however, I do have a small bit of regurgitation in one valve also.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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CSTXAg92 said:

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Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

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I mean, yes. But she's also being sued by the anti Covid vax nonprofit she founded for using nonprofit funds to buy herself a $3MM house in Florida (among other things), so apparently a scam artist too. Maybe do just a slight bit of research on the sources before sharing them.

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/

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Data DEBOONKED!

Zobel said:

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Quote:

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Are there studies showing that Covid is equally or more likely to cause myocarditis in young healthy people than the vaccine itself? Until then, I'm not really listening. It shouldn't be difficult for the science/medical community to come to a consensus...but that would assume that they were largely honest bodies with no agenda one way or the other.

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yes



https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

that being said it is noteworthy that the error bars overlap, even if the point estimates are ~8x apart. i think the takeaway is that myocarditis is not very common from either.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9025013/

Quote:

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Myocarditis and pericarditis are potential post-acute cardiac sequelae of COVID-19 infection, arising from adaptive immune responses. We aimed to study the incidence of post-acute COVID-19 myocarditis and pericarditis. Retrospective cohort study of 196,992 adults after COVID-19 infection in Clalit Health Services members in Israel between March 2020 and January 2021. Inpatient myocarditis and pericarditis diagnoses were retrieved from day 10 after positive PCR. Follow-up was censored on 28 February 2021, with minimum observation of 18 days. The control cohort of 590,976 adults with at least one negative PCR and no positive PCR were age- and sex-matched. Since the Israeli vaccination program was initiated on 20 December 2020, the time-period matching of the control cohort was calculated backward from 15 December 2020. Nine post-COVID-19 patients developed myocarditis (0.0046%), and eleven patients were diagnosed with pericarditis (0.0056%). In the control cohort, 27 patients had myocarditis (0.0046%) and 52 had pericarditis (0.0088%). Age (adjusted hazard ratio [aHR] 0.96, 95% confidence interval [CI]; 0.93 to 1.00) and male sex (aHR 4.42; 95% CI, 1.64 to 11.96) were associated with myocarditis. Male sex (aHR 1.93; 95% CI 1.09 to 3.41) and peripheral vascular disease (aHR 4.20; 95% CI 1.50 to 11.72) were associated with pericarditis. Post COVID-19 infection was not associated with either myocarditis (aHR 1.08; 95% CI 0.45 to 2.56) or pericarditis (aHR 0.53; 95% CI 0.25 to 1.13). We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection.

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Covid does not cause myocarditis, the data does not support this at all. This was always a myth to cover up for the fact that the vaccine was causing it.

aggiehawg said:

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Any docs here care to comment or clarify? I have no idea.

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UPDATE: The fact the Damar Hamlin re-coded, ie. again experienced cardiac arrest hours later at the hospital, almost completely rules out commotio cardis. There is a structural issue here that is not present in cases of commotio cardis. It's simple; CC is even MORE unlikely now.

— Dr. Iver ⚕ (@Doctor_Iver) January 3, 2023

https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/p/interpreting-damar-hamlins-sudden?utm_campaign=auto_share

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A Google search of the words "football player commotio cordis" between the years 1970 and 2022 yielded ONE 2011 report of a junior varsity football player in Massachusetts who suffered from commotio cordis.

So far, I have been unable to find any documented cases that have occurred in the NFL. (Perhaps our readers can find some cases and share them with us).

This suggests that the age of NFL players and the protective padding over their hearts result in a lower incidence of commotio cordis than the incidence documented in sports such as baseball, in which players' chests are exposed to a projectile.

In the final analysis, only a thorough physical examination of Damar Hamlin's heart can determine what caused his sudden collapse. As Dr. McCullough stated in his initial assessment last night:

If Damar Hamlin indeed took one of the COVID-19 vaccines, then subclinical vaccine-induced myocarditis must be considered in the differential diagnosis.

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1 in 5,000 young men have heart issues from COVID vax.

Yearly commotia cordis cases? ~15. (RARELY over age 20).

1,598 athlete cardiac arrests since Jan 2021. 69% fatal.

(Average athlete cardiacs before vax was 29/yr).

“Science” ignores this.

That’s why people ask questions.

— Liz Wheeler (@Liz_Wheeler) January 3, 2023

Open thread for citations

Nanomachines son said:

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subclinical vaccine-induced myocarditis must be considered in the differential diagnosis.

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Whoa there. Big gov and big pharma worshipping npc bots are programmed to be triggered by this suggestion.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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CSTXAg92 said:

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Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

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I mean, yes. But she's also being sued by the anti Covid vax nonprofit she founded for using nonprofit funds to buy herself a $3MM house in Florida (among other things), so apparently a scam artist too. Maybe do just a slight bit of research on the sources before sharing them.

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/

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That does not make the information incorrect, nice try though.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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CSTXAg92 said:

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Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

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I mean, yes. But she's also being sued by the anti Covid vax nonprofit she founded for using nonprofit funds to buy herself a $3MM house in Florida (among other things), so apparently a scam artist too. Maybe do just a slight bit of research on the sources before sharing them.

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/

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Also, the data she is posting is from a noted cardiologist. You tried.

"beware the man of one study". one study does not equal "the data".

here are some other studies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8898072/
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/14/12/2791
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002914922008542
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8422872/
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3837266

here is a meta analysis on the subject that uses 22 studies. they found a 7x multiplier between vaccine risk and covid risk of myocarditis.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.951314/full

The best part about being a conspiraloon, is NOT having myocarditis.

so if you think NFL players and other athletes havent taken noticed and arent in fear, then you probly think this is made up (along with everthing that isn't on ABC/CNN/FOX etc.).

Today I received this message from a former NFL player

So many current & former players are scared of what this vax is doing to their friends & they’re not allowed to discuss it publicly

I promised him I would be his voice

But my God what is happening to us

This is horrible pic.twitter.com/wdACjugxwz

— Rogan O’Handley (@DC_Draino) January 4, 2023

Pro athletes were in the best position to take a stand against forced experimental vaccinations as a condition of their employment.

But they didn't

they were also (at least some of them) in the best position to see financial gain from pushing it as well, along with every other celebrity/public figure.

Why didn't the labor unions and player associations advocate on behalf of their members?

samurai_science said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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CSTXAg92 said:

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Livewire82 said:

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Obvious conspiraloon.

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I mean, yes. But she's also being sued by the anti Covid vax nonprofit she founded for using nonprofit funds to buy herself a $3MM house in Florida (among other things), so apparently a scam artist too. Maybe do just a slight bit of research on the sources before sharing them.

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/

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That does not make the information incorrect, nice try though.

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Sure. Thankfully Zobel followed up as to why the data itself is questionable too.

Considering her entire livelihood is apparently made from stealing from a nonprofit that solicited donations by convincing people that the vaccine is killing everyone, it might be good to ignore what she says. Similar to people like Eric Feigl-Ding in the other direction.

beats me, but at the end of the day it usually comes down to one thing. $

theyre people just like the rest of us and the only difference in them being too scared to stand up and the general public not doing so, is they had alot more $ to lose.

Uche Nwaneri Jacksonville Jaguars died 12-30-22. Died in his sleep from heart attack. 38 years of age. Vaccinated.

He also called for the unvaxxed to be arrested and jailed...

Zobel said:

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"beware the man of one study". one study does not equal "the data".

here are some other studies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8898072/
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/14/12/2791
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002914922008542
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8422872/
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3837266

here is a meta analysis on the subject that uses 22 studies. they found a 7x multiplier between vaccine risk and covid risk of myocarditis.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.951314/full

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3 of the papers were from 2022 and did not account nor control for the vaccine. The other 2 were from 2021 when we did't know as much about it, but these were prior to the vaccine so the data is better.

The last one is the most important one of those you posted.

Pretty much the only people who have issues that I have seen anywhere are those with the vax. I've never seen anyone have heart issues from Covid who didn't also have other commorbidities.

combat wombat said:

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Livewire82 said:

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That's pretty damning if the data wasn't cherry picked and/or manipulated.

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All data is cherry picked and manipulated.

Change my mind.

Whistle Pig said:

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Quote:

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American College of Cardiology
Sports Participation and Sudden Cardiac Arrest
Jun 28, 2016

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Quote:

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In the United States, there are approximately 100 to 150 sudden cardiac deaths (SCD) during competitive sports each year. The estimated incidence of SCD among athletes versus non-athletes was found to be 0.44 per 100,000 person-years, and 13 per 100,000 person-years, respectively. Despite the higher risk of SCD in the general non-athlete population, SCD among athletes garners intense scrutiny by the media and represents an emotionally charged medical topic.

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https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2016/06/28/07/06/sports-participation-and-sudden-cardiac-arrest

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Probably because these are usually healthy individuals.
It's unnerving when healthy people die.
In Texas, high school athletes have to pass a physical. But many of the arrhythmias can be hard to detect, or may appear after the individual was tested.

Livewire82 said:

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There can be other reasons for this.
For example, what if it's because athletes were no longer screen tested because hospitals were too busy treating covid patients? Athletes who would otherwise be disallowed to participate in sports were no longer allowed.

Would love to see the underlying data instead of the graphs.

i agree that the last one is the most important - meta analyses should always occupy a higher place on the quality of evidence scale.

im not sure you're correct about the date.

the first was published in 2022 but is from data in 2020 and compared to 2019.
the second used data from 2020.
the third also used 2020.
the fourth was march 2020 to jan 2021.
the fifth was jan 20 2020 to dec 9 2020.

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

ask and ye shall receive. this is the source cited.

Zobel said:

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https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

ask and ye shall receive. this is the source cited.

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Thanks,
Ok at first glance, that data is terrible.
I'm not even a data scientist and can find obvious flaws.

For one, it could just be that the deaths are higher because there is better health care reporting post Covid).
We don't know the vaccination status on most of these, so it could be that most of the people dying are unvaccinated. Or they could be completely vaccinated. There's no way to tell.

The source is Peter McCullough, et al....not the woman who shared it. Besides, since when does someone need an impeccable track record to speak truth anyway? Don't some on here worship entities that have been sued for record amounts of criminal damages and fraud? I thought it was a badge of honor.

TxTarpon said:

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Ragoo said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Here is the list of post covid triathlon fatalities..
Google away dummy.

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I am willing to bet none are vaccine related

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You have the list.
Hit it internet detective.

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considering most are
Over 50 I am going to say it is not vaccine related. Additionally, those are not professionals. I asked about professionals.

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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From what I understand, the term athlete's heart refers to a heart that is somewhat enlarged because of the exercise and is not a dangerous issue and does not lead to cardiac issues. However, for someone who was sedentary, the same signs would be of strong concern.

---

Depends. From the link I shared: However, in some athletes, the changes can make your heart look similar to how it looks when you have a form of cardiomyopathy. Because cardiomyopathy isn't harmless, your provider needs to know what makes athlete's heart different.

You were riding many miles.
What kind of bike did you have?

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It was a Trek 1000.

The way the doctor put it, "As many miles as you ride, you would know it if there was anything wrong."

🇺🇸 Jets’ Max Mitchell dealing with blood clots: ‘Unexpected temporary setback’https://t.co/yEtyF4mTBP

— 𝚁𝙰𝙶𝙴 𝙰𝙶𝙰𝙸𝙽𝚂𝚃 𝚃𝙷𝙴 𝚅𝙰𝙲𝙲𝙸𝙽𝙴 (@72powpow) January 4, 2023