Buzzy said:

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Quote:

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Why would I make a deal with you in bitcoin

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because the price of the volatility is baked in to the price they charge

I've talked to one criminal about this scenario, they're perfectly happy with their current situation. They were an early adopter and their net worth is somewhere around $35 million right now. They cashed some out when bitcoin was over $20k a while back and set aside a few million.

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TexasRebel said:

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Buzzy said:

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Quote:

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Why would I make a deal with you in bitcoin

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because the price of the volatility is baked in to the price they charge

I've talked to one criminal about this scenario, they're perfectly happy with their current situation. They were an early adopter and their net worth is somewhere around $35 million right now. They cashed some out when bitcoin was over $20k a while back and set aside a few million.

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Would this be abetting?

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aTmAg said:

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Adverse Event said:

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aTmAg said:

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exp said:

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One day liberty loving conservatives will wake up. The debates on this forum are silly at this point. The reality is most on here are quiet statists who don't have courage to break free from their chains. That's ok.

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One day, you will realize that bitcoin won't break anybody free from any chains. That you blew your money on a false promise that you fell for.


None of us conservatives think the dollar is wonderful. We just realize that BTC is not the next, 3rd, or even 100th best alterative. When the dollar fails, people will go to something other than bitcoin.

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Hm, when other countries have had their monetary system collapse they seem to build parallel economies with bitcoin.

In Lebanon, the local currency has lost more than 95% of its value, pensions are worthless, banks shutdown, and ATMs are out of cash.

People are surviving with #bitcoin pic.twitter.com/aeIwriiq9m

— Documenting ₿itcoin 📄 (@DocumentingBTC) November 27, 2022

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So countries that monetarily don't know what they are doing seem to chose bitcoin.

Is that supposed to be an endorsement?

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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eric76 said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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Why not answer the question?

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Adverse Event said:

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eric76 said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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Why not answer the question?

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The answer is bitcoin's difficulty adjustment.

Now you tell us what bitcoin's difficulty adjustment means.

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Adverse Event said:

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eric76 said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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Why not answer the question?

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The answer is bitcoin's difficulty adjustment.

Now you tell us what bitcoin's difficulty adjustment means.

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eric76 said:

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Adverse Event said:

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eric76 said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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Why not answer the question?

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The answer is bitcoin's difficulty adjustment.

Now you tell us what bitcoin's difficulty adjustment means.

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The difficulty of mining is adjusted to maintain a more or less constant rate of creating blocks of bitcoin.

But that's not an answer. It affects the answer by reducing the costs of mining when necessary, but it doesn't address the fundamentals.

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bmks270 said:

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Fundamentally it makes mining cheaper by reducing the energy expense required to mine one Bitcoin.

But proof of work has some consequences because it means the miners with the lowest energy cost will be more profitable. It could result in centralization to the cheapest/most efficient miner which may be in a region with lowest energy prices, or may be an entity that can survive the longest and use the most energy.

it incentivizes EVERYONE to produce clean/cheap/efficient energy, decentralizing energy production and securing grids. There are literal towns in Africa and national parks that now use hydropower to mine bitcoin and the excess is used for electricity in the town. Id rather the world compete on producing the best energy than destroying civilizations who dont kowtow to the IMF or BRI. Therr are tradeoffs on locations, like Kazakhstan, where they had the least expensive electricity after china banned mining but then had massive governmental changes.

Things of this nature tend to coalesce where one entity owns the majority of the market. Just like corporations in mature markets, one usually wins most of the market share and everyone else gets scraps.
I'll disagree that bitcoin fits anything related to "things of this nature"

Immature and young markets have many players (decentralized), but mature markets have only a handful, with one usually owning over half of the market (centralized).
not sure what you're claiming, are you saying that all the bitcoin, all the miners, are going to be centralized? That makes zero sense.

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bmks270 said:

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It's a total waste of energy.

Energy is an expense to every enterprise. There is always incentive for more efficiency and lower costs universally.

Having to do work just for its own sake is a waste.

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Quote:

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Bitcoin's "proof-of-work" function has the potential to be a strategically important national security technology for the US in the digital age. However, the American public lacks the necessary understanding of the complexity of proof-of-work, modern power projection tactics, the function of militaries, and warfighting. This lack of understanding could jeopardize US national strategic security as the future of US national strategic security hinges upon cybersecurity. Bitcoin has demonstrated that "proof-of-work" functions as a new type of cyber security system. Nations are beginning to recognize the potentially substantial strategic benefits of Bitcoin, and the US could lose its strategically vital power projection technology lead to its competitors if it does not consider stockpiling strategic Bitcoin reserves. If the US policymakers continue to categorize Bitcoin as "cryptocurrency" and allow institutions with conflicts of interest to claim to be experts in proof-of-work technology, they could compromise US national strategic security. The primary function of militaries is to protect and defend access to international thoroughfares, including cyberspace. Until Bitcoin, nations have not had an effective way to physically secure their ability to freely exchange bits of information across cyberspace without resorting to lethal power. Bitcoin can provide nations with the technology to impose severe physical costs on belligerent actors trying to access or interfere with valuable bits of information. The adoption of Bitcoin could represent a new type of cold war, a cyber space race. The US needs to recognize the potential benefits of Bitcoin and encourage its adoption to maintain its global power dominance.
ChatGPT's summary of SoftWar by Jason "Spook" Lowery

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JUST IN - IMF warned G-20 that widespread #Bitcoin and crypto use could cause banks to "lose deposits"

— Bitcoin Magazine (@BitcoinMagazine) March 13, 2023

jt2hunt said:

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The mining of bitcoin is constrained by the energy requirements and speed of the processors? In simple terms. The value will continue to rise until the mining issue is solved. Except, the algorithm gets more complex with each bitcoin mined?


Is this a fairly accurate dummies 101 explanation?

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Adverse Event said:

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Irrelevant

JUST IN - IMF warned G-20 that widespread #Bitcoin and crypto use could cause banks to "lose deposits"

— Bitcoin Magazine (@BitcoinMagazine) March 13, 2023

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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at $15k rigged will generate about $120k of today's USD in 5-7 years? why by the underlying when the derivative will return so much more with a similar risk profile?

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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at $15k rigged will generate about $120k of today's USD in 5-7 years? why by the underlying when the derivative will return so much more with a similar risk profile?

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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at $15k rigged will generate about $120k of today's USD in 5-7 years? why by the underlying when the derivative will return so much more with a similar risk profile?

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To some people, coins earned from mining payments are worth more than their street value, because they are what is called "Non-KYC Bitcoin"

Not sure that is what is happening here, but those folks exist.

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eric76 said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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eric76 said:

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As Bitcoin tumbles, at what point do the miners decide that the costs of mining becomes greater than the rewards of mining?

When that happens, how can Bitcoin not lose the entirity of its remaining "value"?

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It's been more expensive to mine than It's worth before during this part of its cycle...

Youd probably be better off if you spent time learning about it instead of assuming you know the answer and writing "gotchas"

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Why not answer the question?

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Passing along a link to this article that makes the case Bitcoin will remain on a downward trend.

Quote:

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"Bitcoin's conceptual design and technological shortcomings make it questionable as a means of payment: real Bitcoin transactions are cumbersome, slow and expensive," they wrote. "Bitcoin has never been used to any significant extent for legal real-world transactions."

"Bitcoin is also not suitable as an investment. It does not generate cash flow (like real estate) or dividends (like equities), cannot be used productively (like commodities) or provide social benefits (like gold). The market valuation of Bitcoin is therefore based purely on speculation," they added.

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https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/european-central-bank-says-bitcoin-is-on-the-road-to-irrelevance.html

I don't own any because I haven't resolved how to value it, and it's too volatile for my taste. I follow a hard rule of not investing in things I don't understand. That has served me well after some small, but impactful, lessons learned with investing earlier in life.

But I'm fascinated by the ongoing story of technology development, wealth creation and destruction.

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jt2hunt said:

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The mining of bitcoin is constrained by the energy requirements and speed of the processors? In simple terms. The value will continue to rise until the mining issue is solved. Except, the algorithm gets more complex with each bitcoin mined?


Is this a fairly accurate dummies 101 explanation?

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AggieAL1 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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The mining of bitcoin is constrained by the energy requirements and speed of the processors? In simple terms. The value will continue to rise until the mining issue is solved. Except, the algorithm gets more complex with each bitcoin mined?


Is this a fairly accurate dummies 101 explanation?

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Well, not quite. The same amount of Bitcoin will be mined no matter how much or (virtually) how little energy is used. Expanded energy consumption is only required when an individual mining operation wants a bigger share of the Bitcoin available.

Thus, a startup miner would have to match, say, 25 percent of all power being consumed currently by the world's miners (plus the equipment investment) to gain a one-fifth share of the roughly 340,000 Bitcoin that will be produced in the next year. Since that would cut the other miners' shares to 80 percent, they could be expected to boost energy and hardware investment to try to maintain proximate share.

That's called a free market, or hyenas on a carcass - take your pick.

Then in the year after, no matter what they do, everybody's share will be cut in half. Strange business plan.

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Adverse Event said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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The mining of bitcoin is constrained by the energy requirements and speed of the processors? In simple terms. The value will continue to rise until the mining issue is solved. Except, the algorithm gets more complex with each bitcoin mined?


Is this a fairly accurate dummies 101 explanation?

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Well, not quite. The same amount of Bitcoin will be mined no matter how much or (virtually) how little energy is used. Expanded energy consumption is only required when an individual mining operation wants a bigger share of the Bitcoin available.

Thus, a startup miner would have to match, say, 25 percent of all power being consumed currently by the world's miners (plus the equipment investment) to gain a one-fifth share of the roughly 340,000 Bitcoin that will be produced in the next year. Since that would cut the other miners' shares to 80 percent, they could be expected to boost energy and hardware investment to try to maintain proximate share.

That's called a free market, or hyenas on a carcass - take your pick.

Then in the year after, no matter what they do, everybody's share will be cut in half. Strange business plan.

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It's not a business plan, it's an incentive structure to maintaina decentralized global computer.

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Bag said:

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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at $15k rigged will generate about $120k of today's USD in 5-7 years? why by the underlying when the derivative will return so much more with a similar risk profile?

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im not sure I follow

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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tysker said:

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Bag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Any idea of his capital costs and revenue generation?

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he is looking for investors, I think current investment units (total of 10 per pad) are around $15k up front and that unit will produce around 5-7 coins over a 5 year period.

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at $15k rigged will generate about $120k of today's USD in 5-7 years? why by the underlying when the derivative will return so much more with a similar risk profile?

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im not sure I follow

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Its a mining play, not unlike buying gold miners as a way to express exposure to gold.
Spending $15k on a rig (the derivative) that creates >$100k of today's crypto value (the underlying) over the next 5-7 years seems like a no brainer especially given that the risk profile is basically the same, imo. if anything, the rig has intrinsic value and production value the cyrpto asset does not, so it may be your friend has a better play

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