***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,590,017 Views | 47820 Replies | Last: 21 min ago by 74OA
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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ABATTBQ11
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mickeyrig06sq3 said:

PA24 said:

I think Russia has adequate supplies for winter fighting, my goodness, they live in that crappy environment. I also think Russia has plenty of bullets land guns left in their arsenal.

I hate the Russians and would gladly kill them if they attacked Texas but I am not going to be fooled in thinking they are even closed to being beat back in Ukraine.
There's a difference between winter supplies to stay warm on the way to grocery store, and winter supplies to be camping in the elements for weeks on end. They're already being asked to bring their own medical supplies and sleeping bags, it's not out of the realm of believability that they don't have proper cold weather gear for troops.


This. There's a difference between permanently living somewhere and temporarily fighting a war there. It's one thing to put on a coat and drive to the store. It's another to go out on patrol or attack an enemy position.

This is not Valley Forge in 1776 where the army is settling in for the winter. The Ukrainians will have the equipment and drive to make Trenton style attacks repeatedly and wherever they can find success. I would expect fighting over the winter.
Ag In Ok
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Ah yes, the Glass Bridge certainly was utilized by the military. It's one thing to hit a mall housing BMPs yet completely different to hit a footbridge. In central Ukraine. Known for its glass floor.
Rossticus
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Yes. Russian mobilization will certainly prove overwhelming this winter…

ABATTBQ11
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Rossticus said:




The rails are definitely ****ed. The deck seems ok, but hard to tell with the rock base on it. From 0:11 to 0:17 though, we can see bending on what kind of seems like the top flanges of beams. May or may not point to more serious structural damage. It could be be special, or out could cause fatigue, cracking, and others collapse as more trains pass over it. We can only hope.
Rossticus
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agent-maroon
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The warped portions of the beam that we can see that are so distorted are where all the highest stresses are located during operation. Between the "heat treatment" that would soften the steel and introduce new unpredictable internal stresses and the uncertain geometry that we can see, there is no way I would want to be the engineer taking a heavily loaded train across that damage. First time or the 1000th trip you would have to have a gun at my head to make me
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
torrid
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Rossticus said:




The rails are definitely ****ed. The deck seems ok, but hard to tell with the rock base on it. From 0:11 to 0:17 though, we can see bending on what kind of seems like the top flanges of beams. May or may not point to more serious structural damage. It could be be special, or out could cause fatigue, cracking, and others collapse as more trains pass over it. We can only hope.
It's easy enough to remove damaged railcars and repair some track. I don't know if that video shows enough to judge the structural integrity of the span though.
wangus12
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Rossticus said:




So this begs the question, do the Russian think Des Moines is the capital of the USA because they looked at a map and saw a capital marking in the center of the country

FamousAgg
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Can't wait for the Russian Talking heads to talk about how our airlines were brought to our knees…
ABATTBQ11
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Yeah. Rails can be swapped out quick. It's the bridge that's important. Without a cross section, there no way to tell how important that flange is or what it ties into.
agent-maroon
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Yeah. Rails can be swapped out quick. It's the bridge that's important. Without a cross section, there no way to tell how important that flange is or what it ties into.

It's been a few years since I took a beam theory class (CE205) and I'm not trying to sensationalize the damage, but I'm reasonably sure that we are looking at both damaged rail (easily replaced) and damaged I-beam (NOT easily replaced). The warped metal at the lower center at the start of the video is the top of the I-beam that supports the cross beams that the rails ride on. It's those flats at the top & bottom of an I-beam that carry the highest stresses from the load. If either of those horizontal flats are compromised then that beam is garbage for carrying a load.

But maybe I'm wrong and it's not the main beam, but it looks like one and is located in the right place to be the main beam
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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FriscoKid said:




I've got zero military experience and I can pick off 10 things they did wrong easily. Wait until these clowns are cold, starving, and confined to trenches in a month.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
ABATTBQ11
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agent-maroon said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

Yeah. Rails can be swapped out quick. It's the bridge that's important. Without a cross section, there no way to tell how important that flange is or what it ties into.

It's been a few years since I took a beam theory class (CE205) and I'm not trying to sensationalize the damage, but I'm reasonably sure that we are looking at both damaged rail (easily replaced) and damaged I-beam (NOT easily replaced). The warped metal at the lower center at the start of the video is the top of the I-beam that supports the cross beams that the rails ride on. It's those flats at the top & bottom of an I-beam that carry the highest stresses from the load. If either of those horizontal flats are compromised then that beam is garbage for carrying a load.

But maybe I'm wrong and it's not the main beam, but it looks like one and is located in the right place to be the main beam


Yeah I had a couple of structures classes and remember that. Just not sure how important that beam is to the span. It could be a smaller w-flange on the larger beam that is there more to hold the rocks in than support the span.
agent-maroon
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Yeah, thats reasonable. It does look a little thin to be a main beam now that I look at it again. If that's the case then the rock fill would have likely protected the main beam from the heat of the flames. Although it was hot enough to melt the rail completely away in spots which is not a trivial amount of heat.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
chickencoupe16
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agent-maroon said:

Yeah, thats reasonable. It does look a little thin to be a main beam now that I look at it again. If that's the case then the rock fill would have likely protected the main beam from the heat of the flames. And it was hot enough to melt the rail which is not a trivial amount of heat.


Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!
aggiehawg
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Rossticus said:

Russia has done a great job of contaminating American politics. The left bought the isht Russia was shoveling hook, line, and sinker, generating tremendous animosity on the right (and rightly so). Now Putin is trying to capitalize by conflating that distrust with opposing Russia's attempts on Ukraine and weaponizing it both within the electorate and at the policy level.

A mess indeed. I'll admit, it takes a lot of work to analyze at the fact level and not to let my inherent distrust of leftists and the current administration cloud my judgement regarding the proper course of action here.
We have to start with the assumption/fact that Putin will not stop unless forced to do so. He has repeatedly stated his intentions to restore the old Soviet Union territories. That means, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, etc. and not just Ukraine.

But in framing the argument for the invasion as Ukraine and its citizens are "Russians" needing to be "liberated" from "Nazis" has backfired. In just 8 months, whatever goodwill or passive DGAF impressions of the "Russian People" writ large is that they are very different from Ukrainians. Very different.

Russians are just a very brutish, ruthless, have a complete lack of empathy type of populace. They are largely sociopaths.
Teslag
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Poland was never part of the Soviet Union
twk
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Teslag said:

Poland was never part of the Soviet Union
True, but it was part of Tsarist Russia.
aggiehawg
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Teslag said:

Poland was never part of the Soviet Union
nm
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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txags92
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Teslag said:

PA24 said:

aunuwyn08 said:

This is not solely directed at you, but the general sense on the board that fighting will stop during winter. This isn't WW II or earlier anymore.

The snow and cold will not stop the operation of HIMARS and drone systems. If the Russians plan on "digging in" for the winter, they're going to see their defensive lines become cemeteries.

Modern weapons are far too precise, lethal, quick, reliable, and non-human centric for static defense to provide much benefit. If the Russians don't engage in winter flanking, disruption, and counterattack operations they will not survive.

Modern warfare is predicated on logistics, maneuver, and lethality.
Then this should be over with in a matter of weeks if you actually believe Russia has shot its load and has nothing but nukes left.

I hope you are right.




By next summer the Ukes will be knocking on the door for Crimea
I know winter will slow things down some, but I don't think it is going to take that long at all. My opinion is that the orcs in Kherson are within a week or two of collapsing and running (or swimming) for their lives just like the groups in Balakliya, Izium, and Lyman did. Their supply situation is getting more dire by the day and the Ukrainians are slowly working their way closer from the north and will be increasingly able to target any supply lines behind Kherson with precision drone strikes and artillery. If Kherson falls and the units there leave behind equipment and retreat in disarray as they have elsewhere, I would not be surprised to see the Ukrainians roll down into Crimea and start hitting the naval base long before next summer.
JFABNRGR
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aggiehawg said:

Here's a picture of the railway bridge while it was under construction. Maybe some of our resident engineers can comment on how redundant this structure is?



Also






I will use this pic to try and answer some of questions regarding steel melted in the recent vids.

The main structural beams are the two pairs of I beams assuming these carry through and are not just for launching during construction. This thing is a beast. On top of these is a deck that looks like a combination of box beams and stringer beams. The outside beams are ballast retainer beams to hold the gravel in. So there is several feet below top of rail to get to these main beams. This a 200+ foot span and bigger than anything we have done or even seen. I will say that at 150' those beams would be over 10' tall. There is a lot extra steel in this thing that i am not sure is for architectural or possibly corrosion resistance or both.

The beams shown melted are probably just ballast retainer and or the stringers in the deck. The ballast retainer would separate grades and or walkway from the rock.

Seeing the rail melted and the trucks is a good sign as those can be thicker than the web or flanges of the main beams. Even better at some point in the vid there is no ballast around a couple of ties. I suspect this is over the bent where an expansion joint is and the cover is simply a 1/2" plate whicb has melted allowing the ballast to fall through the joint, which means fuel could have also seeped though allowing fire to burn down where the critical steel is. This said we would rather have the steel weakens in the middle of the span where max deflection would occur on normal loading cycles. The ballast is typically 8-12" thick below the ties and 8-12" within the ties. Timber ties on BD bridge are 8" I cantt recall what concrete ties are which are on this bridge, we almost never see them.
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
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lb3
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Please take your Cold War history and nuclear war comments here: https://texags.com/forums/49/topics/3097066

And your bridge theories here: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3327982

Waffledynamics
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Supposedly reasonably credible Russian channel on Telegram:

https://t.me/romanov_92/28853

Translation:

Quote:

Ours are starting to play on the attack.

North direction. Very soon. Less than two weeks.

The exact date and area will be published exclusively on my channel a little later.

It will be interesting if this actually comes to pass.
aggiehawg
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Point taken. I will delete.

Apologies.
ABATTBQ11
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agent-maroon said:

Yeah, thats reasonable. It does look a little thin to be a main beam now that I look at it again. If that's the case then the rock fill would have likely protected the main beam from the heat of the flames. Although it was hot enough to melt the rail completely away in spots which is not a trivial amount of heat.


Not sure if the rock bed protected it. Kind of depends on the decking. If the tankers were leaking, which it certainly looked like they were, then whatever was burning would have filtered down through the rock bed and burned on the decking. The decking in spots is likely ****ed, but that's more for rigidity and won't be a problem if it's localized. There may have been significant heat transfer between the beams though. Just no way to know how much.
74OA
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Today's SITREP.
Ulysses90
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JFABNRGR said:

FriscoKid said:

Any sites estimate the number of shells being launched daily by Russia? I suspect that it's dropped off quite a bit over the past month due to Ukraine hitting logistics and depots.
Here you go. Saw this last night. Not sure I completely understand it yet though.

https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/dfbcec47-7b01-400e-ab21-de8eb98c8f3a/page/p_q301bo7axc?s=meEJMPDpGWQ


This a really interesting assessment of the volume of artillery shells fired by Russian forces in this war compared to the Iran-Iraq war. At their highest volume of fire over the past eight months the Russians have only fired a fraction of the number of shells that the Iranian and Iraqi artillery.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1578501990513975296.html
rgag12
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Waffledynamics said:

Supposedly reasonably credible Russian channel on Telegram:

https://t.me/romanov_92/28853

Translation:

Quote:

Ours are starting to play on the attack.

North direction. Very soon. Less than two weeks.

The exact date and area will be published exclusively on my channel a little later.

It will be interesting if this actually comes to pass.


Usually even troops in a unit about to go on the attack doesn't know it's going to be attacking until hours before the operation starts. Something tells me this dude is full of it.
Waffledynamics
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rgag12 said:

Waffledynamics said:

Supposedly reasonably credible Russian channel on Telegram:

https://t.me/romanov_92/28853

Translation:

Quote:

Ours are starting to play on the attack.

North direction. Very soon. Less than two weeks.

The exact date and area will be published exclusively on my channel a little later.

It will be interesting if this actually comes to pass.


Usually even troops in a unit about to go on the attack doesn't know it's going to be attacking until hours before the operation starts. Something tells me this dude is full of it.
Yes, however he's seen as reliable in some of the OSINT groups I've linked up with. He's been pretty accurate when it comes to losses compared to the other droogs on the Russian side that just repeat propaganda. Time will tell how accurate this post is, I guess. I felt it was notable given the information I have.
benchmark
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JFABNRGR said:

The main structural beams are the two pairs of I beams assuming these carry through and are not just for launching during construction. This thing is a beast. On top of these is a deck that looks like a combination of box beams and stringer beams. The outside beams are ballast retainer beams to hold the gravel in. So there is several feet below top of rail to get to these main beams. This a 200+ foot span and bigger than anything we have done or even seen. I will say that at 150' those beams would be over 10' tall. There is a lot extra steel in this thing that i am not sure is for architectural or possibly corrosion resistance or both.
Mostly agree. This is a box girder design with 4 girders about 20 ft deep x 200 ft span. Steel design is very forgiving and this design appears to be redundant enough IMO. The upper girder flanges were likely heat shielded by the deck and track ballast. The outboard web sections may have been heat weakened but likely still within load limits. It looks like the RR bridge is still structurally sound IMO and can be easily load tested for confirmation. My 2 centavos.

[Let's get back on topic and leave the bridge construction analysis, interesting as it may be, for other threads -- Staff]
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