***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

10,391,581 Views | 55301 Replies | Last: 17 min ago by docb
TRM
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TRM
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txags92
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TRM said:



In my 50+ years, my country has made a lot of really slimy deals and done some really underhanded things in geopolitics. But this is the first time I can remember feeling like we are 100% picking the wrong side of a war and it is a pretty sickening feeling. What we are doing just doesn't make any sense right now. If you polled Americans, you would get overwhelming numbers saying dead Ukrainian civilians are more important than high diesel prices. But we seem to be willing to accept more dead Ukrainians if it will drop diesel prices in time for the mid terms, which is pretty sick.
aginresearch
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I have never been a fan of Trump, he's not a conservative and he has consistently shown bad judgement his entire life. We could have picked a true conservative last election but Republicans chose him for ... reasons? He has displayed very poor judgement on Ukraine and is now supporting evil. I can't in good conscience support him any longer. Democrats are terrible too so I'm left without a political home for the moment but oh well that's the way this all works.

History will not judge Trump well for his decisions in this term.
Rossticus
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It's not about midterms anymore. And I don't think that Trump is walking this back. I think this is the beginning of what the administration has wanted since day 1, which is offering Ukraine to Russia as a down payment on business, resource, and moneymaking opportunities. I think it's stupid because I think that Russia will crawfish and shoot us in the ass first chance they get. But this administration trusts Russia. And you either trust Trump's judgment or you don't.
Eliminatus
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I think it will come out soon enough if we are withholding normal intelligence from Ukraine.

Trump is more than petty enough to order it and Vance/Hegseth would trip over themselves in their haste and glee to get it done.
2wealfth Man
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Rossticus said:

It's not about midterms anymore. And I don't think that Trump is walking this back. I think this is the beginning of what the administration has wanted since day 1, which is offering Ukraine to Russia as a down payment on business, resource, and moneymaking opportunities. I think it's stupid because I think that Russia will crawfish and shoot us in the ass first chance they get. But this administration trusts Russia. And you either trust Trump's judgment or you don't.
pretty scary where things might go as he is no longer subject to any kind of electoral decisions after the midterms. I am also questioning his rationality at this point:
javajaws
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This war has turned very political at this moment in time so I hope this (and other posts) are allowed at least temporarily on this thread. But Trump has lost it. Its not only Ukraine that will pay the price but also the Republican party as well - not just in the midterms but in the next election as well.

I've never thought this before, but I think its time he is forced out of office, and fast. I was content to accept the "good" Trump along with the "bad" Trump but no longer (I'm even ok with the Iran situation!). But I will not vote for a single Republican that doesn't stand up to him right here and now.

If staff wants to delete this post then so be it, I've said what I need to say to sleep at night.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
aginresearch
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While that is true I think Republican politicians after the election will have no use for him any longer. if they think he is an anchor they will abandon him to save their own necks. It will be interesting if Rubio leaves because I can't think that he in any way supports appeasing Russia. Post election Trump may end up being neutered because of the likely Democrat wave election.
2wealfth Man
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aginresearch said:

While that is true I think Republican politicians after the election will have no use for him any longer. if they think he is an anchor they will abandon him to save their own necks. It will be interesting if Rubio leaves because I can't think that he in any way supports appeasing Russia. Post election Trump may end up being neutered because of the likely Democrat wave election.
yea, but his son in law and cronies like Witkoff are looking to make deals
nortex97
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Maroon Dawn
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I get it

We want to hold onto this fantasy the West can save poor little Ukraine from the mean Russian bully.

But the problem is we can't. Not without escalating the conflict into a full NATO vs Russia conflict and NOBODY in the West (no matter what they say in public) wants that more than they want to help Ukraine. And let's be honest they don't mind all that profiteering off the stalemate that they all contribute to on both sides by selling Ukraine munitions while buying Russian oil (even if it's indirectly through refineries in India)

But the truth is, the end of this conflict has always been only outcome and it never was "Ukraine defeats Russia"'this isn't a Hollywood movie. The end is that Russia gets a chunk of Ukraine and Ukraine accepts its wound but survives. That's the outcome whether this conflict ends tomorrow or 10 years from now.

We can accept that and use it to steer our Cold War against China (because you know they are doing the same) over can pretend otherwise and let China come out of this owning Russia
TRM
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A Vance admin will be much more harsh on Ukraine unfortunately. Vance=Tucker
TRM
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Except Russia doesn't just want a chunk of Ukraine, Putin wants everything.
Rossticus
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A summary for those who don't want to pay WaPo (I'm certainly not). It's a nice deal that would be beneficial for both sides but I'd be shocked if Russia accepted it with the hard security guarantees and cessation along current lines since they've repeatedly shot those down as nonstarters. If it's coming from the euros then you know it's probably been blessed by Kyiv. So, Putin and his hardliners would remain the hurdle.

The publication says five key points are being discussed:

Cessation of hostilities along the current frontline, with potential territorial concessions by the parties.

Security guarantees for Ukraine similar to NATO's Article 5.

The reconstruction of Ukraine and compensation for those affected.

An energy agreement between Ukraine, Russia, and Europe allowing the resumption of Russian oil and gas supplies.

Possible lifting of sanctions against Russia.

Dirt 05
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How much of Afghanistan did they end up with? This war is going much worse for them. The war will end when Putin dies. There will be too much internal struggle in the power void and focus on stealing his assets that ending a failing unpopular war that is a major distraction will be the easiest path forward no matter who ends up on top.
docb
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TRM said:

A Vance admin will be much more harsh on Ukraine unfortunately. Vance=Tucker

I really can't see any path to a Vance administration. Thank God.

ETA Maybe I should say Thank Trump
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