PJYoung said:

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Another way to think about Trump announcement today: If he increased US diesel imports from Canada by 4%, he would gain as much fuel as from this Russia deal. But the Canadians are global super-villains, so who wants to buy from them when you could enrich Putin instead?

— David Frum (@davidfrum) October 9, 2026

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Thank elbows up for a Putin win.

If Zelenskyy would have only stopped defending his country when Trump asked him to then this wouldn't have been necessary. That's… that's really something.

Axios: President Trump decided to make a diesel fuel deal with Russia after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky ignored half a dozen U.S. requests to stop attacking Russian oil refineries, a U.S. official with direct knowledge told Axios.

"Zelensky is misreading the room. By…

— Kateryna Lisunova (@KaterynaLis) October 10, 2026

I suppose this propagandist's X post is relevant but the post definitely reads like Kremlin talking points

Good will? Okay....

zephyr88 said:

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This thread is 4 years and 7 months long.

War sucks.

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Aye. So much destruction. Every single city and village Russia has taken by force has been utterly destroyed. Not just Ukraine either. It is literally Russia's calling card. Devastated cities in blasted lands populated by miserable people.


It is still sobering to me how little we Americans are choosing to use this as a learning lesson though. From weapons and tactics to appeasing dictators in peacetime.

Ukes aren't planning to give up any time soon though. Not that that was news to anyone here..

Quote:

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Some 62% of Ukrainians are ready to endure Russia's war for as long as necessary, according to a Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) poll published Oct. 6.
The share has remained largely unchanged since late July and early August, despite the beginning of intensified Russian attacks using jet-powered drones and strikes on civilian infrastructure during the survey period. KIIS said the results show that the attacks had not led to a decline in Ukrainians' willingness to endure the war as of Sept. 21.

Another 4% of respondents said they were ready to endure the war for about a year, while 23% said they could continue for only several months or up to six months.
The remaining 11% were undecided.

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https://kyivindependent.com/despite-intensified-russian-attacks-62-of-ukrainians-ready-to-endure-war-as-long-as-needed-poll-finds/

The actual Axios report has more of course. Clearly trying to pressure both sides to at least talk about ending the war (while prioritizing American energy costs). I don't think the Russians have much diesel to export right now, fwiw.

Whether they have the diesel or not is irrelevant
It will move the market and it shows Trump is willing to do business with Putin. Instead of increasing sanctions against Russia he is waiving the sanctions to manipulate the market.

When you are the POTUS and Say s*** X that is not true is a form of market manipulation. The market eventually accurately reflects reality today's market manipulation will be tomorrows correction

Unfortunately I think Russia needs to see more dead, maimed, and destruction still. They need to realize the price that comes from doing what they did and hopefully it will make them think twice before trying this again on another country. And I love to see those dead and maimed be in Moscow and St Petersburg.

Quote:

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Whether they have the diesel or not is irrelevant

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So oil companies and distributors are just going to give Russia money for …………….nothing? Invisible diesel will run trucks and lower market prices? Putin will let his tanks and trucks run dry for this? Color me doubtful.

Ukraine’s defence intelligence agency, HUR, said the Russian jet-powered Geran-4 drone has been adapted recently with systems to improve autonomous navigation and a specialised warhead for striking bridge structures.https://t.co/j95ksMtcWh

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) October 10, 2026

Not to mention buying Russian fuel is essentially funding Russia helping Iran in their war with us.

PJYoung said:

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Not to mention buying Russian fuel is essentially funding Russia helping Iran in their war with us.

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it's blood diesel…:this "deal" with Putin is a bridge too far

B-1 83 said:

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Quote:

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Whether they have the diesel or not is irrelevant

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So oil companies and distributors are just going to give Russia money for …………….nothing? Invisible diesel will run trucks and lower market prices? Putin will let his tanks and trucks run dry for this? Color me doubtful.

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Trump announcing big deals where the actual size of the deal is intentionally lied about is pretty common

Put another way Russia probably does not have enough export capacity to appreciably meet demand and lower prices but that is not relevant because the announcement did move the market down for a few days

I was buying farm diesel yesterday and the guy ahead of me bought 100 gallons and was having to
Drive the fuel to the work site because driving his dump trucks back to the his yard was too expensive
Demand destruction is happening and that will lower prices more than this deal with Putin

Inexplicable. Putin must have videos of Trump with Russian hookers or something. Makes no sense at all.

"Today, Russia thanked us for lifting sanctions on diesel exports by dropping five guided aerial bombs on residential buildings in Zaporizhzhia. As of now, unfortunately, we know of 12 people killed, including three children."
-Zelensky pic.twitter.com/aqjiODzcNy

— Preston Stewart (@prestonstew_) October 10, 2026

Thanks for keeping Russian War Crimes front and center on this thread
So sad our CiC has decided to be complicit

I think this is Trump trying to convince both sides to reach an agreement. Trying to convince Russia we can be trusted and won't fight them economically forever if they stop, trying to convince Ukraine we won't wait forever on them to come to their senses while they continue losing ground each year.

Ukraine is in this situation mostly because Europe was impotent in helping Ukraine for the first few years of the conflict when the US was providing most of the actual aid. Only when they started to realize that we might tire of helping and that Putin might not stop with Ukraine did they start providing meaningful assistance and cut their own funding of and dependence on Russia. The Europeans were the ones buying Russian natural gas, more money paid to that than to Ukraine through 2025.

It's 2026 and Russia is still net positive on gaining territory on the year. It's a no win scenario for Ukraine. You can't negotiate from a position of strength if you want peace and you are Ukraine. You have to give up the territory.

Now both them and Russia have entered a prolonged scorched earth campaign where they won't quite go total war and instead are doing this cat and mouse tit for tat bullcrap, and I think Trump is probably just tired of it. No one is winning and along with the Iran conflict it's starting to drag the world economy closer to mass recession.

Have to start signaling both sides that it's time to make peace.

We just proved to Russia that we won't fight them and will do business with them if they don't stop. So why exactly would they stop. Russia has consistently maintained that they will not compromise and will continue until Ukraine fully surrenders to their complete demands, on their terms, or Ukraine is militarily eliminated as an independent nation.

Russia doesn't back down and play nice when you bend over backwards. They see it as weakness and keep pushing for more. It's practically part of their doctrine. That's a historical fact and can be seen in both European and American mistakes dealing with Russia since Stalin. All it does is encourage Russia that they can have their cake and eat it too, which will further prolog their willingness to wage war in Ukraine.

A few weeks ago, Congress overwhelmingly passed legislation to increase sanctions and tariffs on Russia. The President should be using those authorities instead of allowing Russia to export diesel, rake in revenues, and continue its catastrophic war in Ukraine. We can discuss…

— Sen. Lisa Murkowski (@lisamurkowski) October 10, 2026

The FIRST Russian diesel shipment for the US is arriving on the east coast less than 24 hours after a deal securing the product was announced.

The MINERVA ZEN left St. Petersburg, Russia on September 22nd and appears to have been heading for the US East Coast all along. https://t.co/IZX470GoOi

— TheIntelFrog (@TheIntelFrog) October 10, 2026

If true, that's pretty disgusting.

The shadow fleet is full of sanctioned product looking for a convenient port or legal tanker to unload

This deal just made that tanker full of diesel much more valuable

Eliminatus said:

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flashplayer said:

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I think this is Trump trying to convince both sides to reach an agreement. Trying to convince Russia we can be trusted and won't fight them economically forever if they stop, trying to convince Ukraine we won't wait forever on them to come to their senses while they continue losing ground each year.

Ukraine is in this situation mostly because Europe was impotent in helping Ukraine for the first few years of the conflict when the US was providing most of the actual aid. Only when they started to realize that we might tire of helping and that Putin might not stop with Ukraine did they start providing meaningful assistance and cut their own funding of and dependence on Russia. The Europeans were the ones buying Russian natural gas, more money paid to that than to Ukraine through 2025.

It's 2026 and Russia is still net positive on gaining territory on the year. It's a no win scenario for Ukraine. You can't negotiate from a position of strength if you want peace and you are Ukraine. You have to give up the territory.

Now both them and Russia have entered a prolonged scorched earth campaign where they won't quite go total war and instead are doing this cat and mouse tit for tat bullcrap, and I think Trump is probably just tired of it. No one is winning and along with the Iran conflict it's starting to drag the world economy closer to mass recession.

Have to start signaling both sides that it's time to make peace.

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Not to be an *******, I promise, but do you actually follow this war? At all? Some of these talking points are very old and effectively debunked for all intents and purposes. There is no "start signaling " for peace. That begun years ago. Trump already has his way with the efforts and generally caused more harm than good. There was also no "both sides". Trump completely browbeat the Ukes one sidedly non stop and used every ounce of leverage he could to threaten them to capitulate on horrific terms. Not once to my knowledge did he or his team ever try to even play stern with the Russians in return. The US (via Trump) was effectively Pro Russia the whole time before Trump realized that the Ukes weren't going to stop fighting just because he said so and took away his toys. So he washed his hands of the situation until very recently when it looks like he can distract from Iran again by blaming…..Ukraine. Now he is meddling again and every time we do, Ukraine suffers.

Ukraine wins by continuing to exist btw. I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated. They are fighting an actual war of existence. Russian leadership, to include Putin, have said it themselves. They want to destroy Ukraine and its culture and subjugate its people and bring them back under the Russian boot. They are fighting perhaps the one justifiable war goal that pretty much everyone can agree on. To exist as a free people.

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flashplayer, this is a good response by Eliminatus. I'd add that if Russia is successful Putin won't stop at Ukraine. He's stated as such.

Why isn't Europe helping more then? Why have they not themselves escalated with Russia if all they understand is power by force doctrine?

I don't think Trump is doing well at all in foreign policy these days and disagree with most of what he is doing overall on that front, especially outside the western hemisphere. But that doesn't change the fact Europe has been impotent at helping defend Ukraine and I can only assume part of this is Trump being fed up with the weakness. And yes, I agree he is in 'distract from the economy' mode with most of his moves lately.

None of that takes away from the fact that the entire world is collectively leaving Ukraine out in the cold, literally and figuratively.

Sq 17 said:

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The shadow fleet is full of sanctioned product looking for a convenient port or legal tanker to unload

This deal just made that tanker full of diesel much more valuable

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Yep. But it knew to start heading this way long before it should have if this was all about Trump's requests to stop attacking Russian refineries over the last month-ish. This whole thing smells.

flashplayer said:

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Why isn't Europe helping more then? Why have they not themselves escalated with Russia if all they understand is power by force doctrine?

I don't think Trump is doing well at all in foreign policy these days and disagree with most of what he is doing overall on that front, especially outside the western hemisphere. But that doesn't change the fact Europe has been impotent at helping defend Ukraine and I can only assume part of this is Trump being fed up with the weakness. And yes, I agree he is in 'distract from the economy' mode with most of his moves lately.

None of that takes away from the fact that the entire world is collectively leaving Ukraine out in the cold, literally and figuratively.

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None of us here know really. We aren't Euro leadership. They also aren't a monolithic block either, despite the name and how we generally view them. Some nations have been great at helping. Even more so when you take relative size and GDP into account. Others have lagged. Always been a problem with large coalitions of willful nations with a lot of self interest. There is a bunch of nuance that can be typed out. Turkey blocking a lot of stuff over the years, Euro economies also tanking, some of them are trying to rearm after decades of decay. That takes time, no matter how much you throw at it. And so on and so on.

Also, yes. They have been collectively weak at several points along the way. No excuse for that nor should they be excused. Trust me, they have been damned plenty here over the life of this thread.

Escalation with Russia is tricky. Putin is not a rational actor by western standards and has the ultimate defense. Putin has threatened the world with nukes more times than anyone else in history, combined, I am pretty sure. Is he full of ***** Probably. Are the Euros willing to risk a cratered Berlin or London to find out? No. It's such a ****ty situation that has no right answer. It's like catching your neighbor getting raped by the crazy man across the street who just points a gun at you and doesn't stop and only thing you can do is stand and watch because you were caught unprepared. (The gun is the nuke and you don't know if the crazy man is willing to use it or not, if you don't follow the analogy).

Russia is also sensitive and extremely ready to call foul at every chance possible. Probably up to and including war. If they feel they are getting pressured enough, they can easily trick their populace into thinking the next Great Patriotic War is upon them and they are being attacked and must defend at all costs again. It's why NATO proper will not intercede on Ukraine's behalf. The war has every chance of spiraling out of control and way outside the current borders if it did. It was never an option, even from the first days.

It should be worth noting that if superior military power was all it takes, then:

1) We would have prevailed in Viet Nam
2) Russia would have prevailed in Afghanistan
3) The war in Iran would have ended in days
4) The Ukraine would have had to surrender in days

When you are fighting for the existence of your country, then you are probably going to be willing to suffer greater hardship in defending it.

Ukrainian attack drones hit another datacenter belonging to the Russian internet giant Yandex tonight, setting it on fire.

Major outages have been reported across Yandex's network, with ru-central1-a suffering a complete power failure. pic.twitter.com/AgebyNo9be

— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) October 11, 2026