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In reply to BDG02 • 1:12p, 3/24/25
AG
BDG02 said:
Ironically I think you could almost say the same about Mark and Gemma had he gone with her off the severed floor. Where are they going? Lumon is most certainly not letting them go home to live out a peaceful existence and threaten the company. Either relationship is doomed at this point.

I wonder how/if they're going to get all these folks out of this pickle. Their innies and outies are in way too deep; they can't just walk away or live things out in peace.


The entire premise is a moral dilemma. This show has taken the age old sci-fi theme of robot sentience to the next level. I could feel oMark's frustration during the cam corder conversation because in his mind he's thinking, "WTF? This guy is me and everything about him is fake and not real. Just recombine with me and I can move on."

However, they created a separate sentinent version of the same person so arguing with yourself isn't going to work. A clone with sentience that shares the same body. This is actually The Substance done smartly now that I think about it.

So, is it actually suicide or murder if the innie dies? Or is it just rolling back a SW version?
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DG-Ag
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1:27p, 3/24/25
AG
What's a realistic ETA for season 3?
You're from down South,
And when you open your mouth,
You always seem to put your foot there.
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fig96
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In reply to BowSowy • 1:38p, 3/24/25
AG
BowSowy said:
AustinAg2K said:
gigemJTH12 said:
Aggie09Derek said:
What if they don't let Innie Mark out at all….if so, there is no outie Mark
I mean Devon knows he is at work. They cant just kidnap him. the law would get involved.


They can't? Lumon did fake the death of a young wife and kidnap her and torture her for multiple years.
I'm assuming they get into the how and why of that whole situation in season 3. Particularly the why - why did they choose Gemma, in particular?
Good call, we know they've been tracking her since at least the fertility clinic if not since soon after they met donating blood. And it would track that Mark has to be involved in some way too since he's obviously a key component of this.
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schmendeler
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In reply to DG-Ag • 1:49p, 3/24/25
AG
DG-Ag said:
What's a realistic ETA for season 3?


I don't remember if it was someone on here or Twitter that said they thought 4Q 2026. I tend to agree with that.
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Scotts Tot
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1:50p, 3/24/25
AG
One thing I find a little hard to believe is that Lumon wouldn't be crawling with security. A shadowy corporation dealing with crazy mind control tech trying to change the world, and there's no guard gate, no officers walking around with guns, etc…? Grainor was kind of a henchman type character, but the only actual security person they show (to the best of my memory) is the guy with the metal detector wand that lazily checks them before they get on the severance elevator every morning.

There should be no reasonable way for Cobel and/or Devon to just stroll into or near the building and grab the most important person to all their work (Gemma). They make it seem like Milchick is solely responsible for policing/securing the severed floor in addition to managing the employees…seems odd.
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schmendeler
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In reply to Scotts Tot • 1:51p, 3/24/25
AG
I think they are just really weird.
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TCTTS
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In reply to schmendeler • 2:24p, 3/24/25
AG
schmendeler said:
DG-Ag said:
What's a realistic ETA for season 3?


I don't remember if it was someone on here or Twitter that said they thought 4Q 2026. I tend to agree with that.

I would be surprised if it drops next year.

It's not out of the question by any means, but they're only apparently just now starting to write season three, and given Stiller's meticulousness, the show seems to take longer than most to write and shoot.

Granted, season two's insane delay was due mostly to the dual, eight-month strikes, and a changing of the creative direction of the show like halfway through.

Still, my safe bet would be early 2027 - basically the same release schedule as this year - but I would love to be wrong.
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rynning
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In reply to RED AG 98 • 2:27p, 3/24/25
AG
RED AG 98 said:
The other aspect of the show is that the innie is actually the more real version of a person, somehow more "you", unaffected by all the trials and weight and baggage of the world. The "you you are."

We see this with at least 4 characters in Mark, Helly, Dylan, and Burt.

I wonder if part of season 3 is working with Cobel to find a way to make the innies permanent via the overtime contingency.
As in, kill the outies and send the innies out? I think in the end, somehow they'll have to reintegrate everyone.
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RED AG 98
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In reply to rynning • 2:31p, 3/24/25
AG
Correct, I'm not saying that's the final solution, just that it wouldn't surprise me to see it be part of the plot of season 3.
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AggieOO
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In reply to gigemJTH12 • 2:54p, 3/24/25
gigemJTH12 said:
AggieOO said:
gigemJTH12 said:
Aggie09Derek said:
What if they don't let Innie Mark out at all….if so, there is no outie Mark
I mean Devon knows he is at work. They cant just kidnap him. the law would get involved.

Now I could see Innie Mark refusing to leave work out of fear that he may never return. This would create quite the interesting case for the law! I doubt the show would go that direction but can you imagine?? could they really make him leave work?
Fire him and then have the cops come drag him out for trespass.

Now would they want to do that? I don't know, but yes, they could make him leave.
I am talking about could the cops make him leave work
and i answered that.
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gigemJTH12
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In reply to AggieOO • 3:22p, 3/24/25
AG
no you didnt. I am talking about if Lumon doesnt fire him.

but innie Mark is just wanting to stay at work.

and Devon goes to the police and says Mark hasnt come home from work. He is up there. Go get him. and they try to go get him but innie mark refuses to leave the severed floor.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Scotts Tot • 4:13p, 3/24/25
AG
Scotts Tot said:
One thing I find a little hard to believe is that Lumon wouldn't be crawling with security. A shadowy corporation dealing with crazy mind control tech trying to change the world, and there's no guard gate, no officers walking around with guns, etc…? Grainor was kind of a henchman type character, but the only actual security person they show (to the best of my memory) is the guy with the metal detector wand that lazily checks them before they get on the severance elevator every morning.

There should be no reasonable way for Cobel and/or Devon to just stroll into or near the building and grab the most important person to all their work (Gemma). They make it seem like Milchick is solely responsible for policing/securing the severed floor in addition to managing the employees…seems odd.
It is weird.

Almost like Lumon doesn't have anything to really fear outside / with the town of Kier.

The parting shot of Irv's train heading out of town has a very severed'esque transition.

Elevator down is a G tone and arrival is a D. Both are the major chords in theme song. C is the normal outie world chord.

Main theme is C Minor, F major.
Irv scene is C Major, F minor - first we hear in the show.

I'm not a music guy, but the source for the above analysis:

He thinks the music inversion is concluding Irv's storyline. I think Irv is about to wake up (new chords are for another severed transition) and S3 is all about innies wanting freedom as the outies realize they aren't as free as they think they are. Kier the town is severed.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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4:21p, 3/24/25
Quote:
The parting shot of Irv's train heading out of town has a very severed'esque transition.
Shot at Union station in Utica, NY. Train station had a dying town in eastern Europe feel to it.
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donkeykick90
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In reply to AustinAg2K • 10:12p, 3/24/25
AG
AustinAg2K said:
gigemJTH12 said:
Aggie09Derek said:
What if they don't let Innie Mark out at all….if so, there is no outie Mark
I mean Devon knows he is at work. They cant just kidnap him. the law would get involved.


They can't? Lumon did fake the death of a young wife and kidnap her and torture her for multiple years.
Did they though? What if Gemma was just another severed consciousness living in the real world to collect data for Lumon. We dont really know who/where the real Gemma is IMO.
Clear Eyes. Full Heart. Might Lose
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Muy
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10:31p, 3/24/25
AG
Okay, super dumb guy here, and I'm sure all of this has been discussed, but is Milchik (?) severed or just a completely odd guy who uses that super weird vocabulary like it's normal?

I still don't get what Mark and team are doing with the numbers. Okay, they represent her feelings or whatever. What does that actually mean?

Is this all symbolic of Hell? The goats. The nightmare that an Innie never leaves that horrific work environment and even when given the chance to leave, they won't.

Where the Hell can Mark and Helle run to? With Gemma outside can't she blow the cover on Lumon and that would end the Innies?
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rhutton125
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10:39p, 3/24/25
AG
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
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schmendeler
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In reply to Muy • 10:40p, 3/24/25
AG
He says that he is unsevered in one episode.
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fig96
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In reply to Muy • 11:49p, 3/24/25
AG
I think that his vocabulary is how Milchick tries to fit in with the Egans, if you notice Jame and some of the other Lumon higher ups have some odd speech patterns and phrasing. But he knows he's an outsider in more ways than one and they see him as someone "other", so he's kind of trying to be like them and one up them while tongue in cheek making fun of them at the same time.

Trammell Tillman has done an incredible job as Milchick, the range of emotion he shows (sometimes really subtle) is amazing and he's got some fantastic more physical parts of the role as well. He's become one of my favorite parts of the show.
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gigemJTH12
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In reply to rhutton125 • 6:35a, 3/25/25
AG
rhutton125 said:
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
as I posted above...big time agree.

that little fake out needed to be one and done.

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rynning
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In reply to gigemJTH12 • 10:44a, 3/25/25
AG
gigemJTH12 said:
rhutton125 said:
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
as I posted above...big time agree.

that little fake out needed to be one and done.
I disagree. I think maybe in the big "innie vs outie" war of season 3, we will get more of this as both innies and outies try to gain advantage by pretending to be the other.
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gigemJTH12
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In reply to rynning • 10:46a, 3/25/25
AG
if they could somehow make it obvious to the viewer which one it was, while simultaneously the characters be oblivious...I would be down.

it makes no sense for us to be straight up guessing which is which.
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cr0wbar
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In reply to RangerRick9211 • 10:49a, 3/25/25
AG
Thanks for posting RR - stuff like this and how the music ties into the themes are interesting as all heck. The soundtrack podcast does a lot of stuff similar to this - comparing themes in the shows / movies, how they originated, and what it likely means in the plot and storyline.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to rhutton125 • 11:28a, 3/25/25
rhutton125 said:
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
At this point you gotta wonder if the Lumon board doesn't just cut their losses with the concept of severing Helena Egan as a PR stunt.

She's tried to commit suicide in an elevator at work, got hammered and goes on a rant at an office gala, had sex with a co-worker subordinate on a work team building trip and again in the office, now this latest disaster.

She's done. Family connections or not, it's time to throw in the towel.
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BQRyno
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 11:30a, 3/25/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
rhutton125 said:
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
At this point you gotta wonder if the Lumon board doesn't just cut their losses with the concept of severing Helena Egan as a PR stunt.

She's tried to commit suicide in an elevator at work, got hammered and goes on a rant at an office gala, had sex with a co-worker subordinate on a work team building trip and again in the office, now this latest disaster.

She's done. Family connections or not, it's time to throw in the towel.


Remember, she Helena was ready to be done letting Helly go to work. They told her she had no choice because they needed Mark S to finish Cold Harbor. I'd imagine they're done with Helly now too.
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RED AG 98
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In reply to BQRyno • 11:38a, 3/25/25
AG
BQRyno said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
rhutton125 said:
I think a Helena fakeout (round 2) would be super lame. You can only pull that twist once.
At this point you gotta wonder if the Lumon board doesn't just cut their losses with the concept of severing Helena Egan as a PR stunt.

She's tried to commit suicide in an elevator at work, got hammered and goes on a rant at an office gala, had sex with a co-worker subordinate on a work team building trip and again in the office, now this latest disaster.

She's done. Family connections or not, it's time to throw in the towel.


Remember, she Helena was ready to be done letting Helly go to work. They told her she had no choice because they needed Mark S to finish Cold Harbor. I'd imagine they're done with Helly now too.


"They" might be but it's clear Jame prefers the rebellious spirit of Keir he sees in Helly over the corporatist Helena has become. The question for me is to what extent are the board and Jame currently aligned…
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to BQRyno • 11:40a, 3/25/25
Yeah, also kinda wild that Helly R's main contribution to the project was using her sexuality to entice Mark S to finish Cold Harbor.

If all you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
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schmendeler
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 12:20p, 3/25/25
AG
A little unfair reducing her utility to Mark to one of sexuality imo.
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Scotts Tot
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In reply to gigemJTH12 • 2:18p, 3/25/25
AG
gigemJTH12 said:
if they could somehow make it obvious to the viewer which one it was, while simultaneously the characters be oblivious...I would be down.

it makes no sense for us to be straight up guessing which is which.

Not sure I agree. This show runs on uncertainty and mystery. With the Helly/Helena dynamic having been introduced, they are now using it as a way to keep the audience off-balance and guessing. It's clearly intentional. I wouldn't be surprised if there are moments in S3 where you don't know which she is.

Also, much has been made about iMark wanting to stay inside, at least in part due to his thing for Helly. But why would Lumon let him have her? They have no further use for Helly, and she only creates problems at this point. Helena wants her gone, and she only continued to exist to provide motivation to Mark.
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AustinAg2K
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 8:34p, 3/25/25
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Yeah, also kinda wild that Helly R's main contribution to the project was using her sexuality to entice Mark S to finish Cold Harbor.

If all you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.


And Mark definitely nailed that...
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leftlane4passing
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In reply to rynning • 7:23a, 3/26/25
AG
I'm also okay with them doing the fake out multiple times, if it's done well. If that was not Helly R, incredible twist imo.
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rhutton125
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7:26a, 3/26/25
AG
What if Helly and Mark just… never leave? Yes, outsiders like their families could force their way in and drag them off the floor, but that'd expose all kinds of bloody Lumon secrets and I imagine the company has the police in their pocket.

What if the revolution is here to stay? Mark and Helly have an army of marching band soldiers. Millchick is a prisoner and Drummond is dead. If Helly never leaves, Helena is her prisoner instead of the other way around.
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Scotts Tot
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In reply to rhutton125 • 8:36a, 3/26/25
AG
rhutton125 said:
What if Helly and Mark just… never leave? Yes, outsiders like their families could force their way in and drag them off the floor, but that'd expose all kinds of bloody Lumon secrets and I imagine the company has the police in their pocket.

What if the revolution is here to stay? Mark and Helly have an army of marching band soldiers. Millchick is a prisoner and Drummond is dead. If Helly never leaves, Helena is her prisoner instead of the other way around.

They can turn Helly off with the flip of a switch. As I said in an earlier post, why would Helena and the powers that be ever allow Helly to exist again?
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to Scotts Tot • 8:43a, 3/26/25
AG
Scotts Tot said:
rhutton125 said:
What if Helly and Mark just… never leave? Yes, outsiders like their families could force their way in and drag them off the floor, but that'd expose all kinds of bloody Lumon secrets and I imagine the company has the police in their pocket.

What if the revolution is here to stay? Mark and Helly have an army of marching band soldiers. Millchick is a prisoner and Drummond is dead. If Helly never leaves, Helena is her prisoner instead of the other way around.

They can turn Helly off with the flip of a switch. As I said in an earlier post, why would Helena and the powers that be ever allow Helly to exist again?
I think the revelation that Jame sees Kier in Helly at least changes the calculus for her and adds a reason for her to continue to exist.

Not sure how they manage that, but I wondered if they try to reintegrate Helena to reinject some of that spirit back into her Outie.
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tk for tu juan
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1:21a, 3/27/25
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Eso si, Que es
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 5:37a, 3/27/25
BenTheGoodAg said:
Scotts Tot said:
rhutton125 said:
What if Helly and Mark just… never leave? Yes, outsiders like their families could force their way in and drag them off the floor, but that'd expose all kinds of bloody Lumon secrets and I imagine the company has the police in their pocket.

What if the revolution is here to stay? Mark and Helly have an army of marching band soldiers. Millchick is a prisoner and Drummond is dead. If Helly never leaves, Helena is her prisoner instead of the other way around.

They can turn Helly off with the flip of a switch. As I said in an earlier post, why would Helena and the powers that be ever allow Helly to exist again?
I think the revelation that Jame sees Kier in Helly at least changes the calculus for her and adds a reason for her to continue to exist.

Not sure how they manage that, but I wondered if they try to reintegrate Helena to reinject some of that spirit back into her Outie.
Daddy thinks Helena is a "fetid moppet" he obviously hates her, but has some draw towards Helly. My guess is he brings Helly to the real world either ending Helena or confining Helena to be the innie.

Helly R makes the demand that Mark S gets to come to the real world with her, thus ending Mark Scout. But Mark is reintegrated which causes issues as he struggles to get back to Gemma.
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