excellent start

Renly cant die next episode. Too much has to happen via Catelyn's POV. One episode to get so far south, another episode to plea with Renly (presumably witness the tourney with Brienne, introduce Marg Tyrell, and the rainbow guard). THEN Stannis/Renly parley, then the scene in Renly's tent.

They could fade-to-black with blood spraying all over Catelyn, or they could show them fleeing. Either way it will be nice to see Renly dead.

renly will definitely not die next episode. i don't think it'll be for several more episodes, we haven't even met margaery or brienne, or even seen renly or loras or any of his encampment

I'm looking forward to Melisandre's shadow births

Episode 4 sounds right for Renly's death.

Davos has plenty of work to be done between Renly's death with the Storm's end parley and then the smuggling of Melisandre.

I can see the start of Blackwater by late E08 and the conclusion in Ep09.

I think Ep10 will be the season wrap up focusing on Bran, Dany, Tywin(Kingslanding), Arya, and Jon. They may show Tyrion wrapped up but unconscious. DAMNIT I dont want to wait another year already.

hell i don't want to wait another week

I'm already curious to see if they are going to have Dinklage's nose cut off for the remainder of the show after Blackwater or just give him a scar across his face. Creepy imagining him without a nose.

Thought the first episode was great considering how much they have to cover. I would be so stressed out in that writers table trying to cram everything they need to in 10 episodes. So much information to cover. Hopefully the success of the show will bump their budget to get up to 12 episodes next season. You can already tell from some of the CGI already shown that they got a boost from last year.

They are just gonna film him with a green dot on his nose. Then "Harvey Dent" the hell out of his injury.


Plus it adds believability, the other actors will be looking at his green dot and Tyrion will be self-conscious and more indignant because of his looks.

they did not follow the book as well as season 1

(so far)

Enjoyed the opening episode very much, except for 2 scenes that are not in the book and seem very problematic to me.

(1) Cersei's "power is power" demonstration to Littlefinger. At this point in CoK, Cersei wasn't nearly so heavy-handed. Why do this, unless the scene was included to give Littlefinger an understandable reason to betray the Lannisters? Or maybe it was included just to serve as irony for....

(2) Joffrey threatening Cersei with death. What? How can the audience believe it when Tyrion starts holding back Joffrey? Joffrey didn't go full ruthless this soon, especially where his mother and uncle are concerned.

Thoughts?

There are going to be changes. Best come to terms with that. There are too many characters, plots, and twists to fit them all in unless they start cutting back to half a book a season. I think they'll manage it pretty well and will actually add some more excitement in figuring out how those changes will affect certain character's outcomes.

The biggest difference I see so far is Cersei's intimidation of Littlefinger. Guess they are setting that up as his reason for betraying the Lannisters after seemingly siding with them after double crossing Ned. I like how it makes Cersei seem even more unstable under her cold demeanor. She is desperate to get her some incest lovin again.

I think they know the audience hates Joffrey and want to milk it for all it's worth. The threat of death seemed more like an attempt to save face since she slapped him in front of the entire throne room. He seemed visibly shaken that his servants saw that and needed to make a point that his mother couldn't treat him that way anymore. I don't really see it being a problem with Tyrion though. I'm sure after the people in King's Landing riot and try to kill the royal council outside the castle, they will use that as Joffrey's reason to give his uncle some leeway in running the kingdom since he has no idea WTF he is doing. Tyrion never seemed to really ask Joffrey's advice on much of his decisions anyway and just did his own thing in the book, trying to keep as far away from Joffrey as possible and let him have 'fun' so he couldn't screw things up worse.

[This message has been edited by aCosmicBandito (edited 4/1/2012 11:27p).]

i think the cersei/LF scene was a lot more about cersei's characterization than LF's. it showed her volatility now that she holds some real power, as well as her reliance on her house for that power. LF just happened to be the character they used it on

I don't think Renly will die till at least episode six. Way too much ground to cover still.

Baelish never betrays the Lannisters...he was never on their "side" to begin with. He gets them caught up in a war they very well could lose.

I think at this point Cersei thinks she is above all reproach. She masterminded the coup and gets Janos on board, she avoids conflict with Renly, Barriston, Varys and Littlefinger. Cersei is still Queen and Lord Protector, Joff needs one more birthday before he is of age iirc. That is why Cersei still holds court thus when she gets poisoned the Hand holds court instead.

Look right now, she is full of herself, the moment she sees Tywin plant Tyrion as Hand she becomes irate. She thought she was doing well, and if she had a penus she should have been king. She thinks she can do this alone, and book 4 proves otherwise.

I realize Littlefinger was never really on their side, but, to a tv audience, that's what it looks like. They don't have the luxury to go into the intricate details of every characters motivations and slights of hand which is why they needed to put something onscreen to give a reason why he is loyal to no one because there is no point in trusting anyone but yourself, a point he made which was not heeded to Ned in S1.

BTW, other fans i'm talking to say they're already fed up with more Ros this season - but i disagree, i actually enjoyed her scene. it's showing that she's basically an officer of some sort within LF's brothel and can act as the face of it now when he's not there, which is basically what Chataya was there for in the books anyway. she wasn't even naked in her scene! :P

I don't mind Ros. I actually think she is a clever addition.

She combines smaller characters not really needed, acts as a fly on the wall to give us info on other characters like Theon and Pylon, and makes a perfect substitute for Chataya's since Littlefinger will be gone and she already has had a 'relationship' with Tyrion established from Winterfell.

One other small but significant change that slipped in, Stannis mentioned that Ned knew of Joffrey and was the one who told him in his letter.

Loved the added scene with Robb and Jaime.

I've accepted there are going to be a lot of changes, I also expect that a few things from Book 3 will get mixed in. It's simply going to get far too complicated to stay completely true to the books.

How did Stannis know of the incest in the book? Mel's fires?

Aggie93 - definitely true re: changes. I know some people who have been critiquing the show from season 1 based off deviations from the books, and that really isn't fair at all to the show. especially as the show goes further

He knew because he was with Jon Arryn tracking down *******s, or at least knew of it. When Jon Arryn died he left for Dragonstone as he sat on the Council as Master of Ships. The letter to him is intercepted and so he always thinks of Ned as a traitor and that is part of what drives his indifference/hate toward Robb.

In truth it won't make a huge difference but it is a change.

mmmhmmm...Im not buying it. If Stannis caught wind of Joff's birth he would be the first to tell Robert. I thought Stannis has been in Dragonstone since the Rebellion. Further he hated Robert for forcing him to Dragonstone instead of Storm's End (Baratheon HQ)

That's how it happened in the books. Ned's letter was stopped but Stannis already knew.

He bolted to Dragonstone after Jon Aryn was killed, and didn't tell Robert because he chose Ned instead of him for Hand.

GRRM

He didn't say anything to Robert also because he didn't have hard proof and he had a bad relationship with him.

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mmmhmmm...Im not buying it. If Stannis caught wind of Joff's birth he would be the first to tell Robert. I thought Stannis has been in Dragonstone since the Rebellion. Further he hated Robert for forcing him to Dragonstone instead of Storm's End (Baratheon HQ)

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Read the book. Stannis and John Arryn discovered the truth together. Stannis fled to Dragonstone when John was murdered (although Stannis didn't know the real reason why John was murdered.) Stannis did know that Joffrey was a ******* borne of incest.

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There are going to be changes. Best come to terms with that. There are too many characters, plots, and twists to fit them all in unless they start cutting back to half a book a season. I think they'll manage it pretty well and will actually add some more excitement in figuring out how those changes will affect certain character's outcomes.

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Sigh. Of course there are going to be changes. I'm not complaining about "changes." I'm critiquing these two specific changes because they appear to be empowering Joffrey beyond where he was at this point in the series, which may make it very difficult for Tyrion's handling of Joffrey to remain as written.

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I realize Littlefinger was never really on their side, but, to a tv audience, that's what it looks like.

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More to the point, that's what it looks like to the Lannisters. Littlefinger is the Master of Coin, and holds a seat on the Small Council advising Joffrey, the First of His Name, King of Westeros blah blah blah. And later, we do find out that Littlefinger has in fact as well as definition betrayed the Lannisters.

[This message has been edited by G Martin 87 (edited 4/2/2012 6:44a).]

Someone wanna take a stab at explaining the various deities in GoT? The old gods worshipped in Westeros vs the newer "cult" of the Lord of Light?

Do you want a detailed explanation?

The Old Gods, are the Gods of the north and the Gods of the original men of Westros.

The 7 Gods are the Gods of the South, a newer age of Gods; I believe started well before the Targaryans reign.

The God of Light is the newest of the new, breif history's show/say that his following has been around for some time and started in the eastern lands (not westrsos). Melisandre is one of his envoys and a soothsaying in lots of ways (will be shown later). The red comet, which they really just breifly discussed in the show has indepth discussion in the books. It is supposed to signify the coming of Lothor the God of Light, and is a signal to Melisandre that she should start her work.

In the books the comet is visble for almost a month I believe.

[This message has been edited by OnlyForNow (edited 4/2/2012 8:20a).]

I liked that they brought Ros back and showed devolpment of her from being the new girl in last season to HBIC. The books have a ton of characters like her where you catch up with them from time to time from other peoples POV and you can see the effects of whats going on in westros on the large scale has on the common folk (the inn/inn keep in the riverlands, marillion, and more i can't remember off the top of my head).

Also i liked the the subtleness of some of the scenes and forshadowing. When cersei and little finger have there conflict they pan out and you see one of the washer kids which is a good nod to vary's little birds.

Sansa did a great job too, a lot of people complained about her first season but her "i'm dead inside" delivery of her lines is spot on.

Did anyone else picture Craster differently? I expected him to be more like Walder Frey - disgusting, old, and nasty. The Craster in Ep 1 was a little more..."refined".

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Someone wanna take a stab at explaining the various deities in GoT? The old gods worshipped in Westeros vs the newer "cult" of the Lord of Light?

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Old Gods / North Gods = Judaism, they have been around the longest, less people believe in it than have before but they generally have the respect of those who worship the seven gods

The seven / the south gods = Christianity, wide spread throughout the whole kingdom and the gods that most people hold.

The God of Light = Mormons, been around the least amount of time, has a lot of followers. But most that worship the seven are skeptical of them.

There are about 4 main sets of gods depicted.

1. The Seven: These are the Gods of the South. The Stranger, the Smith, the Warrior, the Maiden, the Father, the Mother, and the Crone. The Sept is the "church" of the Seven, and its priests/priestesses (Septons/Septas) can also serve as advisors and councillors to the Southern lords. The Seven were brought to Westeros by the Andals.

2. The Old Gods: These are the gods of the Starks, and of the North. They are unnamed and represented by the weirwood trees. These are the gods of the Children of the Forest, and were adopted by the First Men after they made peace with the Children.

3. The Drowned God: god of the Greyjoys and the other Ironborn. Their priests are known as "Drowned Men", like Theon's uncle, Damphair.

4. R'hllor: The Lord of Light, worshipped by Thoros of Myr, Mellisandre, and (apparently) Stannis. R'hllor is in opposition to "The Unnmaed God", who is a god of cold and darkness.

Other religions are mentioned, including the Dothraki Gods, the Many-Faced God of Braavos, but they don't have as much play in the story.

[This message has been edited by maverick2076 (edited 4/2/2012 8:34a).]

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the Many-Faced God of Braavos...don't have as much play in the story.

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that's debatable, given that the Faceless Men serve under him (and they play a pretty big role in global politics) and arya is directly exposed to his followers for two full books

I agree that Craster is not what I had in mind. Def. a much more Walder Frey kinda look; I believe they got they janitor guy from Harry Potter to serve as Grey, so I don't know who they would have cast to match that but I imagined them closely similar, nasty old guys.

I also thought Melisandre wasn't going to be the sex symbol she is in the show, I pictures her as a heftier woman, older (40s-50s), and a tad ugiler... although ugly people don't usually garner audiences.