I dont think viewers would be confused by a drowning/revival. "Whats dead may never die" whats confusing about that? Its a symbol. We dont even think that the Drowned Men are actually killed, but just knocked out and resuscitated.

I would've been confused and I've read the books. It wouldn't have flowed with the tone of Theon's character arc in the show either. They greatly enhanced his story in the show over the books IMO by making it a more painful decision to betray Robb with the letter burning and calling Balon out for giving him up in the first place. Made him more sympathetic and relatable to the viewers. In the book, I hated him from the very beginning of his story and loved when he finally got his due.

The show's baptism was more of an acceptance back into the fold, rejoining the Iron Men, and leaving his last with the Starks behind. It would be odd if after making his decision to 'not sow' and go along with Balon's plan, they had a drowning scene with no explanation to the viewers only to revive him. Would've thrown off the emotional impact and beauty of that scene.

In the books, he never got that acceptance at Pike and had to maneuver on his own to capture Winterfell outside of his father's commands after raiding the fishing villages. They might be setting him up for a more active role in the second Greyjoy Rebellion.

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My aunt is friends with Peter Dinklage's mother, and when her husband finally succumbed to cancer, both Peter and his mother came to the memorial.

My aunt and uncle were together for a long time, about 40 years. When my aunt came into the hall (after everyone else was seated) and saw the shrine/altar thing, she broke down crying and my cousin, who's 6'6" and played semipro football had to hold her up and basically carry her to her seat, where she sobbed heartbreakingly the whole time. I've been to some tough funerals in my time, but that moment is going to stick with me for the rest of my life; I understood then what true loss was.

This is all to set the scene for later, when my other cousin's kids (who, in their defense were like 8 and 10 at the time) went up to Peter Dinklage and wanted to talk to him about how he was in Elf. He was total ice to them: the phrase "totally inappropriate" featured prominently in the conversation. I was incredibly happy he didn't coddle them or give them any slack at all. So that's pure Dinklage right there.

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This should get back to the 1st page.

Who else is excited to know Renly dies tmro night?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't die in the next episode. Read somewhere online that the ghost baby killing happens in episode 5.

But Renly sure doesnt die halfway through ACOKs. It was pretty early on. Hell we havent even gotten to Tyrion starting the chain or the pyromancers and the battle starts in ep9.

I bet he dies tomorrow. Remember, we didn't see Melisandre giving birth to hte shadow until the second shadow killed Ser Courtney Penrose at Storm's End. We didn't know what the shadow was when it killed Renly.

I think he dies at the end of tomorrows episode. That would be a pretty solid cliff hanger.

Ready for tonight.

I am guessing singer is right. In previews we see davos rowing her under stroms end. I'm guessing it's just a shadow that kills Renly and we don't know anything about it.

What I watched tonight, I did not read in the books.... very very angry and I'm not even a purist

and also, Renly should have taken a bite of the peach

Deal with it, changes will be made to help move the story along.

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Deal with it, changes will be made to help move the story along.

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I am well aware that I have no choice but to deal with it, thanks for being a d-bag

So whats happening? Stannis is taking Storm's End first behind his brother's lines?

Was anyone else hoping the wolf that would pop out would be Nymeria?


I was getting all jacked up...then I saw Robb.

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Was anyone else hoping the wolf that would pop out would be Nymeria?


I was getting all jacked up...then I saw Robb.

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my thoughts too, and Harrenhall in the opening credits was great

Ok so this is heat is getting at me. Thr interaction between Davos and melisandre that happened in tonight's episode is what was suppose to go down on order to take Storms End. But Renly isn't dead yet.... So that's weird. Maybe the same shadow will end up doing both jobs. I'm also a bit scared tat Robb now falls in love with this surgery girl. I guess jeynee isn't really important just that he marries someone else.

Everything else was good to go and stayed with the book well I thought.

Aside from Tywin lannister holding harrenhal... That doesn't make much sense geographically, since harrenhal is a bit north for him.

[This message has been edited by OnlyForNow (edited 4/22/2012 9:57p).]

I thought that Tywin did show up in Harrenhall before the Lannisters lose it. He installs a castillan that would end the tortures and whatnot.

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What I watched tonight, I did not read in the books.... very very angry and I'm not even a purist

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They're obviously speeding up and intensifying Joffrey's brutality. I also think they're going to write the Queen of Thorns out altogether. But on the plus side, Qarth was magnificent.

As much as they are wanting to speed things up, they sure do waste a ton of time with meaningless junk.

Holy ****.

Lots of changes but damn its getting intense.

Joffrey is a much bigger sicko now than he was in the books at this point.

Loved it.

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[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 4/22/2012 11:07p).]

have to say first... shadow baby looked AWESOME! totally creepy and demonic, they did the scene justice

yet again, the deviations from the book are okay with me. in particular...

-i love that they're simplifying arya's story while still keeping the good stuff in. her serving as tywin's cupbearer instead of weese's servant girl should be a lot more entertaining, and when tywin rode in, i never thought i'd be so happy to see a lannister. and the torture method that the mountain's men used...that is just sick!

-littlefinger being at renly's camp is a good way to keep his character involved, since in book 2 he was largely absent if i remember right. i like him showing his flaws around cat, though i know some people won't

-don't really mind that they took out the shadow execution of Ser Cortnay Penrose and just made davos see the shadow meant for renly. nothing wrong with that IMO

-the scene that i'm sure is the most controversial for readers is the joffrey scene. it was a little long, but i honestly didn't think it was all that out of character. i like that they're continually building joff up as a true villain, considering they're making cersei more likable. the payoff at his death later on will be awesome

yet again, this episode showed me how skilled the writers are at keeping the same look and feel of the story while rearranging and inserting scenes to make it more TV-friendly. next episode has some more serious **** go down it looks like!

I have my first real concern for the Show. "Talissa" is the replacement for Jeyne Westerling and that was the weakest scene of the season so far. I don't know how they are going to reconcile her in that role, I already thought it was a stretch in the books to have Robb marrying a Westerlands woman of no consequence that was of notable birth but if he is to really throw away his kingdom for a foreign girl of no stature that would be beyond the pale. The scene itself was very trite and modern, no way in THAT world does a foreign nurse talk to a King that way. I am very concerned about how they reconcile all of that.

I thought the depiction of the shadow baby was well done but I would rather they didn't have it as the cliff hanger, it kind of lost my wife who is a non reader. It was the biggest "THIS IS A FANTASY SHOW" moment so far and was very confusing to her. One of the biggest strengths of GoT is that it crosses over well with non fantasy fans and to end the show with the largest fantasy element yet was concerning. I know there were dragons in the first season being born but there was buildup to it and it was very believable. The "shadow baby" is a weaker story point imo because it begets the question "Well if all they have to do to kill anyone is have a "shadow baby" then why don't they just keep doing it?" Once again, I thought the scene was well done and the effects were solid but it confused my non reader wife which I found noteworthy. Usually we finish a show and she is like "damnit, we have to wait another week!" and this episode was more, "Hmm, ok. What was going on there?"

The Tyrion and Joffrey scene with Sansa was the best imo. The "that was a threat, see the difference?" line was pure awesomeness.

They have changed up Quarth quite a bit but it should be ok. The Thirteen run the show with no Warlocks or other groups (though Pyatt Pree is cast so we will see how that works). Xaro Xhan Daxos is very different than the books where he is this super effeminate and likely gay guy but that should be fine.

Liked all the Harrenhall scenes, though the rat torture method had me thinking about "2 Fast 2 Furious" where they did the same thing and made me think that was where they got the idea. I liked how they almost made Tywin into a "good guy" as one of the best things about the books is that every character has good and bad sides. I wish they would have taken an extra 10 seconds of screen time to expand on WHY Harrenhall was torched by dragonfire but my guess is they will do that later.

The LF and Margaery Tyrell scene didn't make any sense to me. It's not in the book and it didn't accomplish anything other than to give Natalie Dormer some screen time (not that that is a bad thing). I liked the Cat and LF scene though it is interesting they are planting the idea of her releasing Jaime as opposed to the book. Michelle Fairley showed she is a strong actress though, you could really feel her pain and emotions come through.

I think it should be pretty easy for them to just have the Thirteen run the show and have the warlocks be a a guild in the city.

It might also be easier for them to tie in that "magic" is back and growing stronger due to the dragons' return to the world, IE: power struggles between the resurgent warlocks and the merchants.

I am a little disappointed we haven't seen Quaithe yet. She maybe a minor character but her prophecies seem pretty important in the books. She also has a knack for turning up at opportune moments and it can't be that hard to cast somebody who wears a lacquer mask.

I can understand the concern about Talissa but it won't really make a massive difference for me. I always felt that GRRM had always had in mind the RW but felt that getting to that point was less important than the actual event. Will have to see if she has any further backstory other than being a foreigner before I can really criticize.

As far as the Shadow baby goes, there's a bit more to it as far as setting up in the show compared to reading it in the book. In the books you turn a few pages and BAM! action.

In the show we have to see Stannis' deterioration due to the magic of birthing the shadow baby and probably have him waking up from a nightmare, maybe something akin to Bran's wolf dreams.

I loved the way they shot the scenes with Melisandre this week. Can't quite put my finger on it but prior to the birth she seemed much more mysterious and alluring than the past few episodes.

They did change Dany's entrance to Quarthe quite a bit. In the books they have Quaithe, Pyatt Pree, and I think Xaro come out to meet her in the desert and she comes in to cheering crowds. This is fine though. My guess is they are trying to save budget on the cost of "dragon time".

They did cast Quaithe and Pyatt Pree so that's a good sign. I really hope they keep more of the prophecies in the show, they have been left out for the most part so far.

My gf (non-reader YET) was perplexed by the shadow baby. I had to remind her that there is some fantasy/magic stuff that if I explained would be a pretty big spoiler. She also didnt know who "the brotherhood" was and I had to remind her that Ned sent Beric Dondarrion to hunt down the Mountain in season 1, but hopefully they will be giving a little more information on that in the next episode.

I thought the shadow baby scene was well-done

ddp

[This message has been edited by Thunder18 (edited 4/23/2012 11:15a).]

the book took a while to explain who the brave companions were trying to find. We're not expected to know who the ”brotherhood” is just yet

I bet they didnt have the time or the money to bring Dany to that dead city and have lost an episode of travelers seeing the dragons and then that getting back to Quarth.

The problem with Dany's story is that it drags (pun not intended). Her time in Quarth was just a long "well do I marry this guy or leave" then there is the prophesy. Seeing how there are only 6 episodes left, they need to give her some time with Xaro and some time with dragons and some time with Mormont to say 'they want your dragons'). Once she leaves, she picks up Ser Barristan via the Pentoshi cheese dude and then buys her armies. After that she drags her feet in the city of Harpies forever...

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 4/23/2012 11:29a).]

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bet they didnt have the time or the money to bring Dany to that dead city and have lost an episode of travelers seeing the dragons and then that getting back to Quarth.

The problem with Dany's story is that it drags (pun not intended). Her time in Quarth was just a long "well do I marry this guy or leave" then there is the prophesy.

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As the Spice King said last night when he corrected Dany's mispronunciation, it is "Qarth". Rhymes with Darth.

Tomato, ta-pomegranate