beerag04 said:

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watty said:

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Explain that last line? And what are other examples where you wouldn't want to find your ball?

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Let's say I'm 200 yards out on a par 4 laying one. I hit one towards OB, but not sure if it went OB. If it is in it will still be blocked out by trees/other terrible situation. I don't know if it is OB or not, so I hit a provisional. Provisional is three feet from the cup. I'll take the bogey over laying two in trouble.

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And the reason Scheffler was able to birdie and not par in a similar situation was because he wasn't accessed a penalty stroke, and that was due to the temporary nature of the grandstand?

Provisionals are for OB or lost balls.

Once you find your original ball, if it's in bounds, the provisional ball is then dead. At that point, if you wanted to exercise the stroke and distance rule, you'd have to go back and replay.

You can always use the stroke and distance rule, but you can't do it via a provisional for a ball that you ended up finding in bounds.

Correct.

If me and you were playing there and hit that shot, it's a run of the mill "lost ball"… having to play it as a lost ball and playing the provisional hitting 5.

as above if the original ball is found within 3 minutes and is not out of bounds it is in play and the provisional is dead. You can go back to the tee under stroke and distance and hope you hit it to 2 inches again. Also in the scenario you provided, if I tap in the provisional and then go look for my ball it doesn't matter as the hole has been completed. Once you play a provisional from closer to the hole than the original then the original is dead and the provisional is now the in play ball.

Provisionals are for balls that might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds. But the way the rule is written essentially negates itself so you can kind of hit a provisional at any point that the ball isn't clearly seen or didn't clearly go in a penalty area.

Provisionals are for a ball that might potentially be lost? I thought they were only for balls that could be OB. Because if it's for a potential lost ball, don't you have to look for it? Or are you saying you can just declare it lost and save the 3 minutes and just hit your next shot from the provisional?

Poot said:

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Correct.

If me and you were playing there and hit that shot, it's a run of the mill "lost ball"… having to play it as a lost ball and playing the provisional hitting 5.

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He was hitting his 2nd, when this happened, so the provisional would be hitting 4, not 5.

A lot of golf rules are just stupid.

gestapoparrot said:

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You are never required to search for your ball at any time. You'll see this every now and then in competitive events where for some reason or another it is advantageous to the player to not find their original ball. In this case, it was advantageous for Scottie to not find it as all evidence pointed towards it being in the TIO, unless there is someone there saying they don't think it is in the TIO then not finding it allows him a TIO drop, he and anyone that he has any sway over is not going to look for the ball (his opponents or spectators may search for the 3 minutes after he arrived at the spot). If there was a fan around saying they saw it leave the TIO and was in another course location he would have looked to find it in the TIO because it is now no longer "known or virtually certain."

The most clear rule on this is under the clarifications for 18.3c(2)/2.

Last year in a USGA event I got to watch a guy run down the fairway to hit his provisional before anyone could find his original ball that would have put him in a much worse situation.

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I understand that a player is not required to search for a ball and declare it lost but that comes with the penalty. In this case, there is no penalty. So in this case, if there is no penalty, is he required to search for it. Again, I don't know the answer. But I'm assuming probably not since a rules official was there.

DGrimesAg92 said:

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Poot said:

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Correct.

If me and you were playing there and hit that shot, it's a run of the mill "lost ball"… having to play it as a lost ball and playing the provisional hitting 5.

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He was hitting his 2nd, when this happened, so the provisional would be hitting 4, not 5.

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I was saying he would have been hitting 5 from where his provisional ended up.

18.3 Provisional Ball

a. When Provisional Ball Is Allowed

If a ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 14.6). This includes when:

• The original ball has not been found and identified and is not yet lost,
• A ball might be lost in a penalty area but also might be lost somewhere else on the course, or
• A ball might be lost in a penalty area but might also be out of bounds.

There is no "declaring" a ball lost. It is either found within 3 minutes or it is lost.

Lost

The status of a ball that is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player's partner or partner's caddie) begins to search for it. A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.

There is no requirement to search for your ball, in any situation.

There's maintenance going on and you hit your drive over to that area, there's a front loader and a backhoe being operated and the whole area is marked GUR, if it is known or virtually certain you hit it over there then you take your free drop and play on.

There's a wildlife area marked No Play Zone that your ball flies into. If it is known or virtually certain your ball went in the NPZ you take your free drop and play on.

The most common situation you see where everyone seems to understand there is no requirement to search is if you hit it in a penalty area. If it is known or virtually certain the ball went in the water you take your penalty drop and play on with or without a search.

It always rides on whether it is "known or virtually certain" where your ball is, if there is a disagreement or uncertain on what area of the course it is then you can either search for it or you can go back and take stroke and distance but you are not required to search for it.

It was unfortunately recorded before the Open, but I just finished the NLU pod with a USGA rules official that was very interesting.