Fizban said:

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I think this thread will have some historical value in another couple years.

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Maybe as soon as next earnings.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tesla-stock-price-up-short-sellers-lose-1-5-billion-in-single-day/

Not a good day for the short sellers

Agsrback12 said:

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Fizban said:

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I think this thread will have some historical value in another couple years.

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Maybe as soon as next earnings.

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Another like this one and yeah...

I think the real tipping point won't be for another year or so though depending how successful they are ramping their new products next year.

We'll see. It's surprising that they had profits, despite a dip in revenue. The question is where the cost went and if this is an accounting trick, a true slow down in capex spending, or if they are actually producing vehicles cheaper. Tesla has had profitable quarters before only to sink back down to heavy losses.

TennAg said:

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U.S. revenues down 39% YOY in Q3.

That's beyond bad.

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They sold more cars overseas. The quarter was still a record for production and deliveries. It is just that they sent a larger percentage of their cars outside the US.

They have been increasing the lag time for new orders indicating their backlog is growing.

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/tesla-pushes-model-3-delivery-time-in-us-as-demand-surges-in-other-markets/

bmks270 said:

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Fizban said:

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TennAg said:

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U.S. revenues down 39% YOY in Q3.

That's beyond bad.

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They sold more cars overseas. The quarter was still a record for production and deliveries. It is just that they sent a larger percentage of their cars outside the US.

They have been increasing the lag time for new orders indicating their backlog is growing.

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/tesla-pushes-model-3-delivery-time-in-us-as-demand-surges-in-other-markets/

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It doesn't matter how many they sell when they are selling them at a loss. I'm not convinced they can be profitable year over year.

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That would require a profitable year first...

bmks270 said:

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Fizban said:

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TennAg said:

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U.S. revenues down 39% YOY in Q3.

That's beyond bad.

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They sold more cars overseas. The quarter was still a record for production and deliveries. It is just that they sent a larger percentage of their cars outside the US.

They have been increasing the lag time for new orders indicating their backlog is growing.

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/tesla-pushes-model-3-delivery-time-in-us-as-demand-surges-in-other-markets/

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It doesn't matter how many they sell when they are selling them at a loss. I'm not convinced they can be profitable year over year.

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Except they weren't selling them at a loss... last quarter was profitable. Their margins grew last quarter as well.

Quote:

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Tesla is back on track after a rocky start to the year.

The electric-car maker posted a surprise profit and record deliveries during the third quarter, sending shares surging on Thursday. The gains had Tesla's stock on track for its biggest one-day advance since May 9, 2013, according to Dow Jones Market Data.

"Last night, Tesla delivered a potentially 'game-changing' third quarter with surprise profitability and strong cash flow signaling what could be a new era for Musk," Wedbush analyst Dan Ives said in a note to clients.

"While strong Model 3 deliveries were known and appear to be showing strength into the fourth quarter on the heels of healthy Europe and U.S. demand, the white-knuckle unknown variable from the street was around the bottom line, as Tesla prior to last night had struggled to get out of the red ink."

Tesla earned $143 million, or 78 cents a share, in the third quarter as revenue fell 8 percent from a year ago to $6.3 billion. On an adjusted basis, Tesla earned $1.91 a share, easily beating the 42-cent loss that Wall Street expected. The company lost $2 billion last year, and lost money in both the first and second quarter of this year.

The automaker delivered a record 97,000 vehicles during the quarter and said that it's "highly confident" it'll exceed its target of 360,000 for the year.

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/tesla-stock-really-back-third-quarter-earnings

I saw an article a day or so after earnings that had a couple of items that were somewhat questionable when considered together. I think it was basically that their cap ex was cut from previous projections, they dropped the price of some models, part of the profit was a result of reworking a contract with Panasonic, the tax credit goes away for them and not others next year, and maybe one other one-time accounting entry that may have helped them this quarter, but I can't remember for sure.

They say their Gigafactory is ahead of schedule and ready for production, but at the same time cap ex was cut. Seems like cap ex would have been higher if the factory was ahead of schedule. There were no details with the cap ex numbers, so I guess that could have been the decision to not build more dealerships here, but that's just a guess.

Will their demand hit their estimates? Are they truly taking into effect losing the tax credit and how that may further affect their margins and reducing prices even further to try and gain customers? Will the California wildfires have an impact on demand if people think they won't be able to reliably drive their cars if there are continual power outages in the future due to fires?

Maybe they are turning things around, but I wouldn't ever trust Musk. This quarter was so out of nowhere for everyone that I think you have to wait another couple of quarters, at a minimum, to say they really are on track and are going to make it.

Nowhere did that address margins or explain them...

TSLA has made a single quarter profit many times in the past, and the fanboys always extrapolate them to infinite profitability. With all of the EV credits the government gives, it's really easy for TSLA to horde them all and sell them all in a single quarter. In addition, they changed the way they depreciate capex. Also, you always have to be careful to see if they sold excess inventory in a single quarter. And finally, it's hard to tell if they decided to recognize Autopilot revenue all in one quarter because the car can self "drive" around a parking lot. This has happened many times before, and TSLA has never needed to access capital markets again multiple times, right.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Nowhere did that address margins or explain them...

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Quote:

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Despite reductions in the average selling price (ASP) of Model 3 as global mix stabilizes, our gross margins have strengthened. Additionally, operating expenses are at the lowest level since Model 3 production started. As a result, we returned to GAAP profitability in Q3 while generating positive free cash flow.This was possible by removing substantial cost from our business.

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https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/47313d21-3cac-4f69-9497-d161bce15da4

Gross margin by quarter:
Q3 2018 25.8%
Q4 2018 24.3%
Q1 2019 20.2%
Q2 2019 18.9%
Q3 2019 22.8%

Gordo14 said:

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TSLA has made a single quarter profit many times in the past, and the fanboys always extrapolate them to infinite profitability. With all of the EV credits the government gives, it's really easy for TSLA to horde them all and sell them all in a single quarter. In addition, they changed the way they depreciate capex. Also, you always have to be careful to see if they sold excess inventory in a single quarter. And finally, it's hard to tell if they decided to recognize Autopilot revenue all in one quarter because the car can self "drive" around a parking lot. This has happened many times before, and TSLA has never needed to access capital markets again multiple times, right.

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Not many times, I think this is the third or fourth quarter they have made a profit.

As for EV credits...

"Capturing Tesla's recent operational progress, non-GAAP earnings per share swung from a loss of $1.12 in the second quarter of 2019 to a profit of $1.86. In addition, Tesla's automotive gross margin also improved nicely on a sequential basis, rising from 18.9% in Q2 to 22.8%. Even when excluding the impact of regulatory credits, Tesla's automotive margin improved by 366 basis points."
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/10/23/teslas-q3-earnings-shares-soar-as-profit-blows-pas.aspx

Tesla also did not sell "excess inventory." (which doesn't even make sense when you consider their business model) They delivered 845 more cars than they produced...
https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesla-q3-2019-vehicle-production-deliveries

Finally, no, they did not decide to "recognize autopilot revenue all in one quarter," though they did recognize a part of the "enhanced autopilot" revenue this quarter.

Etc...

Is there a place I can find a solid financial write up on Tesla and their future? Don't really care to hear what the fan boys or the short sellers have to say.

I think they've got such a huge first mover advantage it'll take a decade before someone solidifies themselves as a true electric car competitor as you can't outwork them. They're philosophy on the car is very Apple like - its all about the user experience being more than just a people mover. And they will have incredible brand loyalty.

I think the race is going to be who can make an electric SUV and truck that the masses can relatively afford. But the bigger body styles will need way more battery power, especially with load.

So, yes, their profitability was significantly impacted by a 1 time revenue recognition event. That doesn't mean much going forward. I'm sure they threw that revenue recognition of multiple years into gross margins this quarter similar to what they do with EV credits.

I have no position in Tesla. Elon Musk is a ******bag. There are too many accounting tricks that can make any one quarter look good. Tesla margins will fall significantly in the future regardless, like literally every other car company. Tesla is structurally insolvent, but so far has had unlimited access to equity markets so that fanboys can tithe. Elon Musk is a fraud #$420 #1millionrobotaxis2020.

Given that Tesla almost ran out of money ~5 months ago, it's shocking how confident you are after 1 quarter with accounting tricks (so normal Tesla operations) that everything is perfectly fine.

Bless you if you can find anyone neutral on Tesla. There are some very vocal Tesla detractors, and as an outsider they seem to have a significant echo chamber going on, and make many negative predictions that don't ever seem to come to reality.

I do know that the cars are fantastic, that I get far more positive reactions and compliments than I ever did in a BMW M3. The majority of the people who have driven my car tell me a Tesla will be their next car, including my wife. The company was cash flow positive by a billion dollars over the past four quarters and has 10x their worst ever quarter results in cash.

There could be aggressive accounting for revenue and expenses, but funds flow is up 55% YoY. That ignores all that noise. I'm too lazy to look up the cash component of any EV credits though.

Another thing I'd consider is WeWork. I'm not the biggest fan of Musk's recent antics / hyperbole. But, relative to the mess that is WeWork, Tesla is a real company that builds a real product. The capital train didn't stop for WeWork until the company assumed $65.0Bn in long-term leases, it created its own liquidity issue by waiting to go public with only 2 months of runway, they reported $900MM in loses on $1.5Bn in revenue, it came to light there was zero corporate governance, and the company had expanded into unnecessary pet projects. It took all that. Tesla's access to capital is nowhere near without a "beyond a reasonable doubt" type of performance downturn.

Endo Ag said:

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Bless you if you can find anyone neutral on Tesla. There are some very vocal Tesla detractors, and as an outsider they seem to have a significant echo chamber going on, and make many negative predictions that don't ever seem to come to reality.

I do know that the cars are fantastic, that I get far more positive reactions and compliments than I ever did in a BMW M3. The majority of the people who have driven my car tell me a Tesla will be their next car, including my wife. The company was cash flow positive by a billion dollars over the past four quarters and has 10x their worst ever quarter results in cash.

---

On the flip side, musk has also made plenty of positive predictions that have never come true, and there are plenty of tesla fanboys that also have significant echo chambers. These are the guy's who defended calling a model 3 an appreciating asset.

They may be cash flow positive by $1 billion over the last four quarters, but look back six and they're $600 million in the hole. They also had raise $2.7 billion in cash in May due to concerns over short term cash flow.

There are a lot of great things about teslas, but there are a lot on bad things as well. Warranty issues will be a problem moving forward, and things like paint can't be fixed with a software update. Warranty and service have been a thorn in Tesla's side for a long time because increase of pushing out patches and updates, hardware has to be physically touched. It's a lot more pervasive and expensive than they planned. Those kinds of quality issues also don't show up immediately. Producing a few hundred thousand cars outdoors is probably going to bite them in the coming years.

Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

khkman22 said:

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I saw an article a day or so after earnings that had a couple of items that were somewhat questionable when considered together. I think it was basically that their cap ex was cut from previous projections, they dropped the price of some models, part of the profit was a result of reworking a contract with Panasonic, the tax credit goes away for them and not others next year, and maybe one other one-time accounting entry that may have helped them this quarter, but I can't remember for sure.

They say their Gigafactory is ahead of schedule and ready for production, but at the same time cap ex was cut. Seems like cap ex would have been higher if the factory was ahead of schedule. There were no details with the cap ex numbers, so I guess that could have been the decision to not build more dealerships here, but that's just a guess.

Will their demand hit their estimates? Are they truly taking into effect losing the tax credit and how that may further affect their margins and reducing prices even further to try and gain customers? Will the California wildfires have an impact on demand if people think they won't be able to reliably drive their cars if there are continual power outages in the future due to fires?

Maybe they are turning things around, but I wouldn't ever trust Musk. This quarter was so out of nowhere for everyone that I think you have to wait another couple of quarters, at a minimum, to say they really are on track and are going to make it.

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I'm still confused by TSLA's report.

Where did the +$700mm in revenue come from?

How did they raise margins while delivering fewer high margin cars (S & X), more lower margin cars (3) and not that many more cars QoQ? All the while ASP continues to decline, QoQ volume change wasn't noteworthy and leases are up.

Since '18 Q4 it's been an easy read with ASP decreasing and slow S+X sales massively impacting real profitability. Coupled with the big bonds due in '20 and '21, yeah it's been bearish.

We'll see in the 10-Q if it's a reporting change or one time item. However, if TSLA really have improved core profitability and are markedly more efficient at building cars - then yeah, the ballgame has changed. And at +$300/share, a second offering next year is an easy answer to the bonds.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

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How exactly is that selection bias? That's similar to saying a negative movie review means nothing because of selection bias - they went and saw the movie. In reality, good reviews boost perception and drive incremental sales and negative reviews do the opposite.

I'd buy it more that the decline in US sales is due to the market of "early adopters" declining. There is less low hanging fruit for Tesla to capitalize on.

500,000ags said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

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How exactly is that selection bias? That's similar to saying a negative movie review means nothing because of selection bias - they went and saw the movie. In reality, good reviews boost perception and drive incremental sales and negative reviews do the opposite.

I'd buy it more that the decline in US sales is due to the market of "early adopters" declining. There is less low hanging fruit for Tesla to capitalize on.

---

I agree that the US is running out of early adopters (those that will put up with an incomplete product because its novel). So that means Tesla needs to start introducing the features that will push the rest of the market into buying. There is a big segment of people going, 'For 35k I can buy a car with a really nice interior.' So Tesla needs to work on:

-Better interior finishes
-Better warranty support and customer support
-Better charging station access (including agreeing to a non proprietary standard)

All while dealing with the end of a tax credit and the first rounds of other companies coming out with their electric cars.

At the end of the day the big question is, can Tesla master everything supporting car manufacturing before the other car manufacturers master building an electric car.

500,000ags said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

---

How exactly is that selection bias? That's similar to saying a negative movie review means nothing because of selection bias - they went and saw the movie. In reality, good reviews boost perception and drive incremental sales and negative reviews do the opposite.

I'd buy it more that the decline in US sales is due to the market of "early adopters" declining. There is less low hanging fruit for Tesla to capitalize on.

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It's selection bias because the sample population is limited to the people you know and thus isn't a random subset of the general population. See the Literary Digest presidential poll of 1936. It suffered heavily from selection bias because it only sampled from its own readers, telephone users, and automobile owners. In 1936, that was basically only the wealthy. They got 2.4 million responses and predicted FDR would lose in a landslide, when in fact he won in the biggest landslide since the formation of the Democratic and Republican parties. Despite a truly massive sample size, the population sampled did not reflect the population at large and the sample was heavily biased.


Reviews in general are a form of selection bias because they're self-selective. That's not to say they're generally wrong, but they must be taken with a grain of salt because typically the only people leaving reviews are those who felt strongly enough to leave one and may represent outliers either way.


Also, the notion that everyone who has driven your car now wants one is also flawed due to response bias. It's the same thing pollsters have to deal with when asking people if they voted and who they voted for, only to get misleading or dishonest replies because people feel a certain pressure to answer a certain way, even when anonymous. No one is going to tell you that your car sucks or that it's mediocre to your face, but they'll sure tell you that its really nice. It's just the polite and expected thing to do.

Have you driven a Tesla?

No, but I also have no intention of getting one regardless of how it drives because I a) drive a truck, b) plan to drive said truck until it hits 250k miles, and c) am not willing to spend $50k on a vehicle to drive essentially for fun.

Tesla makes really good cars

Their issues with quality control would say otherwise, and the jury is still out on the long term reliability of a Tesla (200k+ miles) not just for the drive train, but the entire vehicle. Suspension, brakes, wheel bearings, electronics, interior finishes, paint, lights, etc. I know my Tacoma or a Camry or Accord will last that long and probably longer. Hell, there are multiple Tundras that have hit the million mile mark and still look pretty new inside and out. There are a lot of brands with proven longevity of every aspect of the vehicle.

Does Tesla? Many of them suffered infotainment screen issues, and continue to, because musk decided that automotive grade screens were overkill and he wanted something really big, which simply wasn't made. They went with the next best thing that meet his size demands and it didn't hold up long. It's those kind of decisions, that will not be apparent for a long time, that would keep me from buying one and raise the question,"Do they make good cars, or do they make good batteries, motors, and software?"

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Their issues with quality control would say otherwise, and the jury is still out on the long term reliability of a Tesla (200k+ miles) not just for the drive train, but the entire vehicle. Suspension, brakes, wheel bearings, electronics, interior finishes, paint, lights, etc. I know my Tacoma or a Camry or Accord will last that long and probably longer. Hell, there are multiple Tundras that have hit the million mile mark and still look pretty new inside and out. There are a lot of brands with proven longevity of every aspect of the vehicle.

Does Tesla? Many of them suffered infotainment screen issues, and continue to, because musk decided that automotive grade screens were overkill and he wanted something really big, which simply wasn't made. They went with the next best thing that meet his size demands and it didn't hold up long. It's those kind of decisions, that will not be apparent for a long time, that would keep me from buying one and raise the question,"Do they make good cars, or do they make good batteries, motors, and software?"

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This is standard FUD. Tesla is not that new a company at this point. You can find plenty of examples of Teslas with hundreds of thousands of miles on them and most have performed extremely well from a maintenance/reliability standpoint.

Meanwhile Tesla owners almost without exception love their cars.

I remember the first time I picked up an iPhone. I distinctly remember thinking that every other phone I had held up to that point seemed old fashioned in comparison. Driving a Tesla is a similar experience.

On the surface it does the same thing as any other car, just as the iPhone's critics contended when comparing it to Blackberry, but the Tesla is just a better experience.

Take a look at this survey Bloomberg conducted: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/?srnd=graphics-v2

No doubt you will focus on the (mostly minor) defect rate, but scroll down to what the owners actually think.

Essentially every single owner surveyed stated they were "very satisfied" with the Model 3 from a "driving enjoyment" standpoint.

Quote:

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Notwithstanding its initial flaws, Tesla owners raved about their cars. This is something of a paradox found repeatedly in the Bloomberg surveymany of those owners who dealt with defects in their new Model 3 gave the electric sedan high overall marks for satisfaction. They gave their highest ratings to its design, performance, and some of the unusual software features that help define Tesla's brand. A nearly unanimous 99.6% of respondents said the Model 3 is a pleasure to drive, the kind of consensus rarely reached by any consumer product.

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Consider the implications of that. That is a level of satisfaction that BMW would kill to achieve. The exact same owners that reported all those defects love their cars. If you don't have experience driving a Tesla I don't think you can get it.

As one survey respondent put it:

"The car feels like the future, I can never go back."

That's selection bias.

500,000ags said:

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That's selection bias.

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Please, go take a basic stats course...

one MEEN Ag said:

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500,000ags said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

---

How exactly is that selection bias? That's similar to saying a negative movie review means nothing because of selection bias - they went and saw the movie. In reality, good reviews boost perception and drive incremental sales and negative reviews do the opposite.

I'd buy it more that the decline in US sales is due to the market of "early adopters" declining. There is less low hanging fruit for Tesla to capitalize on.

---

I agree that the US is running out of early adopters (those that will put up with an incomplete product because its novel). So that means Tesla needs to start introducing the features that will push the rest of the market into buying. There is a big segment of people going, 'For 35k I can buy a car with a really nice interior.' So Tesla needs to work on:

-Better interior finishes
-Better warranty support and customer support
-Better charging station access (including agreeing to a non proprietary standard)

All while dealing with the end of a tax credit and the first rounds of other companies coming out with their electric cars.

At the end of the day the big question is, can Tesla master everything supporting car manufacturing before the other car manufacturers master building an electric car.

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you do realize, teslas can use any charger, it's the other cars that cant use the Tesla chargers. Tesla provides you an adaptor when you buy the car that lets you use the other charger types.

Foamcows said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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500,000ags said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Also, "those who have driven your car," is a great example of selection bias and a poor reflection of consumer demand. Tesla has seen a large decrease in yoy US sales, and their current revenues are driven by international sales.

---

How exactly is that selection bias? That's similar to saying a negative movie review means nothing because of selection bias - they went and saw the movie. In reality, good reviews boost perception and drive incremental sales and negative reviews do the opposite.

I'd buy it more that the decline in US sales is due to the market of "early adopters" declining. There is less low hanging fruit for Tesla to capitalize on.

---

I agree that the US is running out of early adopters (those that will put up with an incomplete product because its novel). So that means Tesla needs to start introducing the features that will push the rest of the market into buying. There is a big segment of people going, 'For 35k I can buy a car with a really nice interior.' So Tesla needs to work on:

-Better interior finishes
-Better warranty support and customer support
-Better charging station access (including agreeing to a non proprietary standard)

All while dealing with the end of a tax credit and the first rounds of other companies coming out with their electric cars.

At the end of the day the big question is, can Tesla master everything supporting car manufacturing before the other car manufacturers master building an electric car.

---

you do realize, teslas can use any charger, it's the other cars that cant use the Tesla chargers. Tesla provides you an adaptor when you buy the car that lets you use the other charger types.

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I did not know that. I stand corrected on that.

First one to make an electric truck that can do 200 miles with a load gets to print money.

Fizban said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Their issues with quality control would say otherwise, and the jury is still out on the long term reliability of a Tesla (200k+ miles) not just for the drive train, but the entire vehicle. Suspension, brakes, wheel bearings, electronics, interior finishes, paint, lights, etc. I know my Tacoma or a Camry or Accord will last that long and probably longer. Hell, there are multiple Tundras that have hit the million mile mark and still look pretty new inside and out. There are a lot of brands with proven longevity of every aspect of the vehicle.

Does Tesla? Many of them suffered infotainment screen issues, and continue to, because musk decided that automotive grade screens were overkill and he wanted something really big, which simply wasn't made. They went with the next best thing that meet his size demands and it didn't hold up long. It's those kind of decisions, that will not be apparent for a long time, that would keep me from buying one and raise the question,"Do they make good cars, or do they make good batteries, motors, and software?"

---

This is standard FUD. Tesla is not that new a company at this point. You can find plenty of examples of Teslas with hundreds of thousands of miles on them and most have performed extremely well from a maintenance/reliability standpoint.

Meanwhile Tesla owners almost without exception love their cars.

I remember the first time I picked up an iPhone. I distinctly remember thinking that every other phone I had held up to that point seemed old fashioned in comparison. Driving a Tesla is a similar experience.

On the surface it does the same thing as any other car, just as the iPhone's critics contended when comparing it to Blackberry, but the Tesla is just a better experience.

Take a look at this survey Bloomberg conducted: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/?srnd=graphics-v2

No doubt you will focus on the (mostly minor) defect rate, but scroll down to what the owners actually think.

Essentially every single owner surveyed stated they were "very satisfied" with the Model 3 from a "driving enjoyment" standpoint.

Quote:

---

Notwithstanding its initial flaws, Tesla owners raved about their cars. This is something of a paradox found repeatedly in the Bloomberg surveymany of those owners who dealt with defects in their new Model 3 gave the electric sedan high overall marks for satisfaction. They gave their highest ratings to its design, performance, and some of the unusual software features that help define Tesla's brand. A nearly unanimous 99.6% of respondents said the Model 3 is a pleasure to drive, the kind of consensus rarely reached by any consumer product.

---

Consider the implications of that. That is a level of satisfaction that BMW would kill to achieve. The exact same owners that reported all those defects love their cars. If you don't have experience driving a Tesla I don't think you can get it.

As one survey respondent put it:

"The car feels like the future, I can never go back."

---

Here's the thing about this, though...

Model 3 owners are mostly, at this point, people who were willing to put down deposits on a car before they even test drove it or knew much of anything about it other than proposed specs. Then, they literally waited years for actual production and delivery.

Those people are bought into the idea of driving a Tesla and bought into the brand. They're going to be satisfied no matter what. Paint problems? Screen degradation? Water in tail light assemblies? Poor body alignment? WHO CARES?!?!?! IT'S A TESLA!!!!!!!!!! This is like asking churchgoers if God is great. Now go sell him to everyone else.



They could very well put out great cars, but Tesla is still, relatively, a new company. Tesla delivered their first vehicle 10 years ago, and that was essentially a proof of concept. The S, a production vehicle, has been in production for only 7 years. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and other car companies have been putting or high quality vehicles for decades. Toyota alone produces in a quarter more twice what Tesla has produced in its entire lifetime. Would I consider a Tesla as my next vehicle? Sure, but I don't plan to be in the market until my truck hits 250k-300k miles in about 10-15 years.

Lol, negative bias. You could just as easily say those people would demand more from the initial product and would be very vocal about a crap, lemon, let down.