I wonder how much of a gap there is between the corrections...between "willingness to come off the bench" and "acknowledging" sacrificing for the team. As much as I tnink Harper is very talented and that he's the PG of the future, I also don't think he's leading this team to a championship next year.
***** 2026 Spurs Off-Season Thread *****
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superunknown said:
I wonder how much of a gap there is between the corrections...between "willingness to come off the bench" and "acknowledging" sacrificing for the team. As much as I tnink Harper is very talented and that he's the PG of the future, I also don't think he's leading this team to a championship next year.
I'm in the exact same space. He's very good at creating his own shot but not nearly as good at running the offense and creating for the team. He's runs the PnR well but most of it is him scoring rather than creating plays and ready shots for others
There's a thread on reddit on this and some dipshht was saying Tre Jones was better suited to run point than Fox. This is why I am mostly quiet in the offseason.
superunknown said:
There's a thread on reddit on this and some dipshht was saying Tre Jones was better suited to run point than Fox. This is why I am mostly quiet in the offseason.
That same dip**** said the JaKobi Gillespie is better than Fox right now. He's a complete moron. Like 99% of his posts are toxic slander with no basis
I keep wanting to chime in (like I have here) and say something like...hey let's see how Fox looks when he's not injured? But as soon as you say something pro Fox or even right down the middle, it's taken as anti-Harper. It's as bad as saying something milquetoast politically like "dang, Trump's kinda whiffed on this Iran thing" and then getting bombarded with KAMALA IS A HO BAG, FJB, HILLARY IS A MURDERER, etc.
Guitarsoup said:superunknown said:
There's a thread on reddit on this and some dipshht was saying Tre Jones was better suited to run point than Fox. This is why I am mostly quiet in the offseason.
That same dip**** said the JaKobi Gillespie is better than Fox right now. He's a complete moron. Like 99% of his posts are toxic slander with no basis
Sounds like some of the idiots posting on the Spurs threads here.
superunknown said:
I keep wanting to chime in (like I have here) and say something like...hey let's see how Fox looks when he's not injured? But as soon as you say something pro Fox or even right down the middle, it's taken as anti-Harper. It's as bad as saying something milquetoast politically like "dang, Trump's kinda whiffed on this Iran thing" and then getting bombarded with KAMALA IS A HO BAG, FJB, HILLARY IS A MURDERER, etc.
In the playoffs, Fox put up 19/6/4 on 46/35 shooting with 1.5 stocks and just 2.0TO before the injury and was +9.6.
After the injury, it was 12/6/4 on 35/24 and was +1.3.
Sure, Fox made some mental mistakes that can't be attributed to the injury, but the injury unquestionably hampered him.
Such a short memory, when Wemby was out with the calf injury, it was Fox that led us to a 9-3 record and we didn't have Castle/Harper for all those games.
Having all three of the guards is an advantage that other teams have difficulty countering. That advantage will only improve as the kids get better and Billy Donovan starts drawing up plays.
I think Fox finishes this season and a very real chance of next season as well. The 27-28 will be more difficult if Harper continues to develop at a high rate because I think we want three guards but also we don't want too many good rotation players for the expansion draft in 28..
That's why I think we trade Fox in Summer 28 for depth after the expansion draft.
Fox's rim pressure numbers slipped tremendously last year. Way too many inefficient mid range jumpers. He also was not our best pick and roll option with Wemby which was a bit disappointing. It was like he decided to let the young pups deal with the paint contact and he would avoid it. He's a speed player and is approaching the age when speed starts to slip a touch.
I for one, would love to see what Harper looks like by years end after playing a full season of starter minutes next to Castle and Wemby. We were much better with Harper in and Fox out in the last basketball we watched. Harper is way better in rebounding and defense too.
A lineup of Harper, Castle, Vassell, Harris and Wemby would be sick on both ends.
Fox is a volume scorer. He needs to shoot until he gets hot. We need Wemby to take the most shots, Castle and Harper paint drives should be the next most frequent shots and then wide open 3s by (Vassell, Champ, Tobias, etc) should be next. Where does that leave Fox with his mid range game and need for volume over efficiency? He would be perfect off the bench to provide that instant offense with the second unit.
He's a borderline all-star with at least 3 emerging stars coming into their own (Wemby, Castle and Harper) who should be prioritized over him in both shots and minutes.
If he wants to continue his big starter minutes to continue then his rim pressure needs to return and he needs to limit his 3s to wide open shots and hit them at about a 40% clip so he can run some 2 guard too.
Regardless of who starts, Harper's minutes will absolutely increase. Those minutes have to come from somewhere and I don't see how they come from anywhere other than Fox.
I for one, would love to see what Harper looks like by years end after playing a full season of starter minutes next to Castle and Wemby. We were much better with Harper in and Fox out in the last basketball we watched. Harper is way better in rebounding and defense too.
A lineup of Harper, Castle, Vassell, Harris and Wemby would be sick on both ends.
Fox is a volume scorer. He needs to shoot until he gets hot. We need Wemby to take the most shots, Castle and Harper paint drives should be the next most frequent shots and then wide open 3s by (Vassell, Champ, Tobias, etc) should be next. Where does that leave Fox with his mid range game and need for volume over efficiency? He would be perfect off the bench to provide that instant offense with the second unit.
He's a borderline all-star with at least 3 emerging stars coming into their own (Wemby, Castle and Harper) who should be prioritized over him in both shots and minutes.
If he wants to continue his big starter minutes to continue then his rim pressure needs to return and he needs to limit his 3s to wide open shots and hit them at about a 40% clip so he can run some 2 guard too.
Regardless of who starts, Harper's minutes will absolutely increase. Those minutes have to come from somewhere and I don't see how they come from anywhere other than Fox.
Enzo The Baker said:Earth Rider said:
Hyunjung Lee went 4 for 7 from 3 with 22 points against the Jazz. South Korean Ace!
Hoping he can stick around.
Same. Hopefully he can get a training camp invite. He'd be a great guy to keep in Austin. Getting the Korean fans on the Spurs side would be a boon from a business perspective. Koreans are already going crazy with him just being on the summer league team.
Austin would be good but there is a reason why he's 25 and never made a roster.
Quote:
Fox's rim pressure numbers slipped tremendously last year.
20% of his shots were at the rim, which was his highest rated in a season since 21-22.
Quote:
Way too many inefficient mid range jumpers.
Fox shot better than Durant from the mid-range last year and is absolutely one of the best in the league from the elbows and the key. Having the ability to hit those mid-range pull ups makes him a more deadly threat, because defenders can't give him space knowing he is going to the rim like they can do with Castle. Being able to hit at an elite rate at his spots makes him harder to defend. Fox shot 60% from the right elbow, 55% from the inner half of the key and 65% from the back half of the key. Overall, he shot 53% from the 16-23' range. That's absolutely elite and he should keep shooting those.
Quote:
He also was not our best pick and roll option with Wemby which was a bit disappointing.
Victor is not the best screener or roller. He was 58th percentile in the playoffs as a roll man. 74th percentile in the regular season but both were dwarfted by Luke.
Quote:
It was like he decided to let the young pups deal with the paint contact and he would avoid it. He's a speed player and is approaching the age when speed starts to slip a touch.
That is usually around the age 32/33 area, and he is not close to that. Harper and Castle are bigger, stronger, and younger and that is more of their game.
Quote:
I for one, would love to see what Harper looks like by years end after playing a full season of starter minutes next to Castle and Wemby. We were much better with Harper in and Fox out in the last basketball we watched. Harper is way better in rebounding and defense too.
Yes, when Fox was injured, Harper was better at a lot of things. When both were healthy, Fox was better.
Quote:
A lineup of Harper, Castle, Vassell, Harris and Wemby would be sick on both ends.
Either lineup is fantastic. Fox is significantly better defensively than most give him credit for.
Quote:
Fox is a volume scorer. He needs to shoot until he gets hot.
Not really. He shot 49% from the field last year and only attempted 6.4 3pta per 36. Fewer than Barnes, Julian, Wemby, Devin, Carter, etc. Fox had a usage equal to Castle and under 25%. A volume scorer is not someone with a usage under 25% and a FG% at 49% as a guard. Fox's TS% was better than Castle and Harper's
Quote:
We need Wemby to take the most shots, Castle and Harper paint drives should be the next most frequent shots and then wide open 3s by (Vassell, Champ, Tobias, etc) should be next.
I think we need Wemby to have less of an offensive load and we need to utilize all the guards and Tobias to create easier buckets for him via rim pressure and screens. Wemby having to fight for position constantly on both ends of the court wears him out. Taking away the pressure and grind of constantly being the go to guy on both ends of the court should make him more efficient.
Quote:
Where does that leave Fox with his mid range game and need for volume over efficiency? He would be perfect off the bench to provide that instant offense with the second unit.
Fox's mid-range game IS efficient. 53% is elite. Fox shooting at a high percentage at multiple places on the court makes him and the Spurs more difficult to defend and he has an absolute ability to get that shot open every time he wants to because of his threat at the rim and his quick cross over into a pull up.
Quote:
He's a borderline all-star with at least 3 emerging stars coming into their own (Wemby, Castle and Harper) who should be prioritized over him in both shots and minutes.
This is a team game, not an individual game. Fox will continue to have the gravity of his very high level scoring ability and that will continue to draw the best defender like it did last year. That will allow Castle and Harper to continue to work against lesser defenders, which allows them to be more efficient than they would be against the better POA defender.
Quote:
If he wants to continue his big starter minutes to continue then his rim pressure needs to return and he needs to limit his 3s to wide open shots and hit them at about a 40% clip so he can run some 2 guard too.
He did that significantly last year and hit 38% of his catch and shoot threes and a ridiculous 49% of his corner threes.
Quote:
Regardless of who starts, Harper's minutes will absolutely increase. Those minutes have to come from somewhere and I don't see how they come from anywhere other than Fox.
The Spurs need to rehab Fox's image and he won't see a big decrease in minutes. Fox, Harper, and Castle will all see around 28-30min.
superunknown said:
I wonder how much of a gap there is between the corrections...between "willingness to come off the bench" and "acknowledging" sacrificing for the team. As much as I tnink Harper is very talented and that he's the PG of the future, I also don't think he's leading this team to a championship next year.
A lot of this is just off season talking heads saying things and stirring the pot a bit for clicks.
Harper is going to get a lot of run, and if he's clearly the better option than Fox then he'll start to get more minutes and likely be a starter at some point next season. I don't think anyone in the Spurs front office thinks Fox is going to be a Spur for 10 more years, but I think they do think that Harper will be, so when push comes to shove I'm pretty sure they will make room for Harper's emergence.
He might not like it, but having a nuclear weapon like him on our 2nd unit is our unfair advantage for now.
I'm afraid there is always going to be the pressure on Wemby to score. From himself and fans alike. He's shown he has an insane amount of tools he can use, and everyone will expect him to be unstoppable every time down the floor.
I think we need the guards to step up scoring just enough to make defenses regret when they go all out defending Vic.
I think we need the guards to step up scoring just enough to make defenses regret when they go all out defending Vic.
I agree. He probably puts more pressure on himself than anyone else. But the more we can take off his plate, the more efficient he can play. Whether that be sets where we just have him spot up in the corner to bring away the rim protector or we use Tobias to screen his man so he posts up against the weaker defender. Everything we can do to make his job easier is more energy he has saved for the 4th quarter/playoffs.
He's going to want to score a lot to win MVP, but the easier we can make it, the better.
He's going to want to score a lot to win MVP, but the easier we can make it, the better.
IMO, the biggest backcourt issue we're having/about to have is who's the primary ball handler...anyone else recall the chatter about how Castle wanted to be drafted as a PG? I wonder if he's still as intent as being the PG...surely enough has been said about "if we'd known we were getting Harper we would have never traded for Fox" but we're past that and we're stuck with this backcourt (oh, the humanity lol) for a couple years. Not surprised at all that Fox's rim pressure was down last year. A full season of playing with Wemby down low will do that.
For the next growth period for this team (and let's all remind ourselves we came within about a dozen points of winning the trophy) I think it's going to center (no pun intended) on what kind of play style is our primary focus and to me that's largely dependent on Wemby and what his role is going to mostly be. If he's mostly on the blocks/back to the basket that would fit a different style of PG than a Dirk/stretch forward post player would be. I think the talent on this team can handle both but it's going to take some upper level coaching to get there and that's not a knock on Mitch. Wemby's truly an alien and fitting out this team around him to maximize what he does is so key to our championship dreams.
For the next growth period for this team (and let's all remind ourselves we came within about a dozen points of winning the trophy) I think it's going to center (no pun intended) on what kind of play style is our primary focus and to me that's largely dependent on Wemby and what his role is going to mostly be. If he's mostly on the blocks/back to the basket that would fit a different style of PG than a Dirk/stretch forward post player would be. I think the talent on this team can handle both but it's going to take some upper level coaching to get there and that's not a knock on Mitch. Wemby's truly an alien and fitting out this team around him to maximize what he does is so key to our championship dreams.
Quote:
Not surprised at all that Fox's rim pressure was down last year. A full season of playing with Wemby down low will do that.
His rim pressure was UP though. It was the most FGA he took at the rim in a bunch of seasons.
Guitarsoup said:Quote:
Not surprised at all that Fox's rim pressure was down last year. A full season of playing with Wemby down low will do that.
His rim pressure was UP though. It was the most FGA he took at the rim in a bunch of seasons.
Fox is paid max money to be in his prime. To say he's slipped for multiple seasons from his peak and then slightly increases with a much better team is a weird way to argue it.
The first number is rim pressure and the second is mid range. Per basketball reference.
2022-23 20.7% 30.6%
2023-24 15.3% 37.4%
2024-25 18.3% 39.3%
2025-26 17.6% 39.1%
What Fox was this year is a far cry from his 22-23 numbers.
Backcountry Birds said:Guitarsoup said:Quote:
Not surprised at all that Fox's rim pressure was down last year. A full season of playing with Wemby down low will do that.
His rim pressure was UP though. It was the most FGA he took at the rim in a bunch of seasons.
Fox is paid max money to be in his prime. To say he's slipped for multiple seasons from his peak and then slightly increases with a much better team is a weird way to argue it.
The first number is rim pressure and the second is mid range. Per basketball reference.
2022-23 20.7% 30.6%
2023-24 15.3% 37.4%
2024-25 18.3% 39.3%
2025-26 17.6% 39.1%
What Fox was this year is a far cry from his 22-23 numbers.
You're smoking crack.
Last year he shot .201 of his shots at the rim.
24-25: .156
23-24: .174
22-23: .196
21-22: .224
Additionally, his FG% at the rim last year was 71%, which is an excellent number, especially for a 6'2 PG. Kornet was .693. Castle was .680. Harper was .658. Vassell was .657.
Fox shot .529 from 16-23 feet. Harper was .515. Vassell was .486. All are fantastic numbers. Durant shot .512 there. Fox actually shot fewer middies this year than last year, but it has been an intentional addition to his game for the same reason CP3 did. Last year, that was the only shot CP3 could get off that wasn't C&S.
I don't think you actually understand what you are looking at, because nothing that you wrote coincides with anything on Basketball Reference.
Did we ever hear what exactly the injury was to Fox? High ankle sprain?
Quick family vacation to NYC next week. My son and I are already dreading all the Knicks propaganda. That part is going to suck
Quick family vacation to NYC next week. My son and I are already dreading all the Knicks propaganda. That part is going to suck
duck79 said:
Did we ever hear what exactly the injury was to Fox? High ankle sprain?
Quick family vacation to NYC next week. My son and I are already dreading all the Knicks propaganda. That part is going to suck
Yes, it was a grade 2 (I believe) high ankle sprain. That's usually out 6-8 weeks, he took off two games.
De'Aaron Fox talks about playing through his high ankle sprain injury
— MrBuckBuck (@MrBuckBuckNBA) May 31, 2026
Via: https://t.co/HzMr1PkOtn pic.twitter.com/qkp6gQ0CXg
"Stop on De'Aaron Fox, he's playing with a high ankle sprain – probably shouldn't be playing. He would normally dunk that layup – if he would've dunked it, he's the hero..."
— Dan Patrick Show (@dpshow) June 12, 2026
– @CoachCalArk on people blaming De'Aaron Fox for the #Spurs loss pic.twitter.com/BftiQYW3pK
Guitarsoup said:Quote:
Not surprised at all that Fox's rim pressure was down last year. A full season of playing with Wemby down low will do that.
His rim pressure was UP though. It was the most FGA he took at the rim in a bunch of seasons.
Good looking out on the stats. I was going on vibes lol
duck79 said:
Did we ever hear what exactly the injury was to Fox? High ankle sprain?
Quick family vacation to NYC next week. My son and I are already dreading all the Knicks propaganda. That part is going to suck
IIRC it was either a post or pre game presser and it was a quick line from Mitch, "if this was regular season, he wouldn't be playing." but that's the most I heard about any official.
Having said that, watching any game footage after especially the reinjury against OKC, you can tell his lateral movement, speed and verticality were all shot to hell. Lots of wincing and not being able to move the way he was used to, especially on defense. He couldn't stay in front of anyone who could change direction.
Are the Spurs pursuing LeBron James? I asked RC Buford about it. Here’s his answer:
— Maxime Aubin (@MaximeAubin1) July 17, 2026
“What I will say is that we’re excited about the team we’ve been able to keep together — and to add Tobias [Harris] to that, plus our young draft picks. I think our history shows how we build…
Does that mean we secretly are? If not why not just say "He's a great player, no we are not"
SanAntonio said:
Does that mean we secretly are? If not why not just say "He's a great player, no we are not"
This was posted today:
Dave McMenamin on LeBron’s free agency decision:
— Wemby Alien Era (@WembyAlienEra) July 17, 2026
“My understanding there was some sort of Spurs dialogue. I don’t know whether it was pitching but it was some sort of dialogue.”
👀👀👀#GoSpursGo #PorVida pic.twitter.com/LH9E8CbpZ6
Spurs have a close/good relationship with Rich Paul. And we should have a good relationship because we overpaid Fox and Keldon, two of his clients. Mitch is also a Rich Paul client.
So we unquestionably talked to Paul about LeBron, but I think that Paul let us know right away that LeBron is going to GSW or Cleveland and didn't jerk us around like he is doing Minnesota and Philly.
The Spurs front office (including coaches) can't talk publicly about free agents or players signed to other teams. So BW is never going to say "yeah, we are trying to sign LeBron because we obviously need a veteran PF that can score and pass." Public statements about players that are not signed to your team are considering tampering.
If your kids (or you) need a unique Spurs sticker for their water bottle: https://www.felizmodern.com/products/ko-extraterrestrial-mvp
duck79 said:
Did we ever hear what exactly the injury was to Fox? High ankle sprain?
Quick family vacation to NYC next week. My son and I are already dreading all the Knicks propaganda. That part is going to suck
Knicks propaganda has died down since the Finals. Much less Knicks gear around Manhattan now. Have a great trip!
Guitarsoup said:this is our life pic.twitter.com/UWAeGRtkaY
— rio (@pilgeousx) July 18, 2026
Wemby Stoppers
Why is he even called a wemby stopper if he’s slow asf pic.twitter.com/qPe9HBgbYj
— Wemby Enjoyer (@WETBANANASFOR3) July 18, 2026
He's so slowwwwww
Guitarsoup said:Guitarsoup said:this is our life pic.twitter.com/UWAeGRtkaY
— rio (@pilgeousx) July 18, 2026
Wemby StoppersWhy is he even called a wemby stopper if he’s slow asf pic.twitter.com/qPe9HBgbYj
— Wemby Enjoyer (@WETBANANASFOR3) July 18, 2026
He's so slowwwwww
And a twig.
BREAKING: The Oklahoma City Thunder trading All-Defensive wing Lu Dort to the Atlanta Hawks in a three-team deal that sends three second-round picks to OKC, former No. 1 pick Zaccharie Risacher to the Dallas Mavericks and Ryan Nembhard to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/4ewUxhRQA5
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 19, 2026
Wild. Dyson+Dort is going to destroy offensive cohesiveness.
No way the Mavs take the option on Risacher's 4th year, right? It's like 18M.
Guitarsoup said:BREAKING: The Oklahoma City Thunder trading All-Defensive wing Lu Dort to the Atlanta Hawks in a three-team deal that sends three second-round picks to OKC, former No. 1 pick Zaccharie Risacher to the Dallas Mavericks and Ryan Nembhard to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/4ewUxhRQA5
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 19, 2026
Wild. Dyson+Dort is going to destroy offensive cohesiveness.
No way the Mavs take the option on Risacher's 4th year, right? It's like 18M.
Weird trade for OKC. Elite defender for 3 gambles? More draft capital? I guess money is an issue with SGA and Chet, so gotta go cheap all around them?
Average Joe said:
Weird trade for OKC. Elite defender for 3 gambles? More draft capital? I guess money is an issue with SGA and Chet, so gotta go cheap all around them?
This feels cap/apron move. OKC doesn't need draft picks, they have an absolute ton.
Average Joe said:Guitarsoup said:BREAKING: The Oklahoma City Thunder trading All-Defensive wing Lu Dort to the Atlanta Hawks in a three-team deal that sends three second-round picks to OKC, former No. 1 pick Zaccharie Risacher to the Dallas Mavericks and Ryan Nembhard to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/4ewUxhRQA5
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 19, 2026
Wild. Dyson+Dort is going to destroy offensive cohesiveness.
No way the Mavs take the option on Risacher's 4th year, right? It's like 18M.
Weird trade for OKC. Elite defender for 3 gambles? More draft capital? I guess money is an issue with SGA and Chet, so gotta go cheap all around them?
This gets them out of the 2nd apron.
Tax bill before this move was ~105M and will be about $28M after. They cut a total of about 310M in luxury tax+Salary this off-season.
They still have an empty roster spot and about 4.5M in 2nd apron space to fill it. But they can roll with 14 players and not fill it, too.
I think Hawks improved defensively, but their roster construction is a mess. LOTS of specialists and NAW is really the only two-way player.
OKC lost Dort, Wiggins, and Joe. Wiggins and Joe were just depth pieces last year, but Dort was a major role player and their perimeter defense should take a hit. Wallace is good and this will give him a bigger role, but that will also make him more expensive and they have to deal with SGA's contract going from 25% to 35% (20M increase) next year.
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