Southgate would be the modern equivalent of "break glass, pull the Sam Allardyce lever". Defense first and scrape out points.

And if you thought Marcus was a ghost before he would be in witness protection with Southgate.

To be clear, I'm not saying I want Southgate. But both Ashworth and Ratcliffe are on record as rating him and Ashworth has even worked with him. I do think the England job is probably the only other job that has comparable pressure/toxicity as the United job. But I agree...do not want. Though I think virtually any coach they could get would have significant red flags.

The thing is Southgate is a 180 from ten Hag. The time to hire Southgate (and there's never a good time) is after Ole because Southgate's style is closer to that since Ole was more counter-attacking.

And I'm not blaming, someone there does clearly like Southgate. He was at that "birthday party" that looked a lot like a manager interview in May. I'm just saying I think it will go baaad.

Is Southgate primarily counter attacking? I seem to remember him being all pass and no final product...so really quite in line with ETH. I could be wrong.

I guess stylistically, Graham Potter is the closest to what Ashworth and Co maybe kind of sort want to build at United. But that's got obvious red flags as well. Other than that you're paying for someone else's coach and anyone worth getting is likely on a team that is performing well and will cost a boatload of money.

England would sit back and try and get balls to Kane on a possession change, a little like how Ole tried with Marcus and then Ronaldo. In my view; I'm not a huge England fan (opposite actually).

Someone wake me when this team starts carrying about winning again.

I can't remember who all was at that birthday party, but I remember it being all of the United decision makers (including ones on gardening leave at the time) and like three or four of the main rumored candidates (like Southgate, Poch, Potter, and I think Thomas Frank; kind of a strange collection for a real birthday party).

If you have 40 minutes and a pair of earphones, this is the best summation of where the club is. Hint: it's sheet.

https://www.youtube.com/live/b7cTUhgwSaE?si=xI4jK2VfUzjS7qpL

Irrespective of the manager, I think the club needs to ship out Rashford at the winter break. He's been here for too many managers. He's given up on every manager. They should have sent him this summer to set the tone for the rest of the long timers.

Take the power back in the club. But they won't because money.

You presume that there's a market for Rashford. There probably is but likely not a great one. I don't think any club is going to shell, say, 50m for him.

Dre_00 said:

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You presume that there's a market for Rashford. There probably is but likely not a great one. I don't think any club is going to shell, say, 50m for him.

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I do not presume there is a market thus my last note. They won't because of money. But, INEOS need to say we don't care about the money. Again, this is a tone setting move. They should have done it over the summer.

We all agree there's more problems than just the manager. I personally think part of the problem is still having players that have repeatedly shown they will down tool and sink a manager.

I think they would have sold Rashford and bought Olise if they could. They didn't, so presumably they couldn't. He's on, what, 350K per week? About 60M left on his contract? You have to sell, you aren't going to give him 60M to not play.

I've been critical of Rashford, but nobody wanted to sell him when he got the new contract. It is what it is. And I think ten Hag is telling him to stay forward so he can receive on a counter. He may look better under a new manager, I don't know. Marcus's passing and shot creation is much better than last year; unfortunately no one is scoring.

To put it another way, if our players were on NFL contracts which aren't guaranteed, there is little question that there would be a number of big contracts getting cut.

Actually, going through the list, out of the people making 150k per week and higher (per capology) how many wouldn't get cut?

350k Casemiro
300k Bruno
300k Rashford
250k Mount
200k Antony (lol)
195k de Ligt
190k Maguire
150k Eriksen
150k Luke Shaw

Didn't include Sancho since he's basically already gone.

Btw, for anyone not on Twitter/X, Laurie Whitwell as well as a few others like James Ducker and Simon Stone (I.e., some of the more respected reporters) indicating he would get Porto and Villa, and then they will asses at the international break. Sounds ominous for ten Hag, but nothing immediately imminent today.

#MUFC aim to reset for Porto + Villa games, staying together as a club. But more of the same will see focus on Erik ten Hag’s position become severe.

Report from Old Trafford on a chastening occasion ⬇️https://t.co/kcbI4LGVko

— Laurie Whitwell (@lauriewhitwell) September 30, 2024

Erik ten Hag will remain in charge for the Porto and Aston Villa games. Focus remains on supporting the manager, his staff and players but little doubt the pressure is building. A big week for the #MUFC managerhttps://t.co/iKrDq5HSCb

— James Ducker (@TelegraphDucker) September 30, 2024

Lots of Ruud, Southgate, Potter, and even Tuchel rumors, but nothing seems particularly reliable. FYI.

Wynalda said he got a text that the process has started for EtH to go.

Unless he's texting with David Beckham, who's texting with Gary Neville, who's texting with his new best friend and fellow Old Trafford area real estate mogul Sir Jim Ratcliffe, I'm not sure how he'd have any great inside knowledge beyond the rest of us.

I mean, other than most of Greater Manchester watched the game and came away with the thought, "Yeah, that's just about enough to get the sack."

Come on. He's more connected than us.

Furlock Bones said:

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Wynalda said he got a text that the process has started for EtH to go.

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What exactly does that mean? We are looking for a new coach? I hope they always have a list.

To who? Did he even play or coach in the premier league? I don't see why a random MLS guy would have information when much more closely connected people are stuck with iffy rumors at best.

Remember that video Rio put out where he was literally in the toilet saying he had information that Qatar would win the bid imminently? I'm just saying. Also, Ineos have not been leaking when stuff is still confined within their inner circle. (Edit: and at least that was Rio and we didn't have to play the Kevin Bacon game to figure out why he might have a connection)

I don't think the new leadership/ownership is any position to ignore financial considerations given FFP and the balancing act they need to do to compensate so for very expensive and very bad deals recently done. I get what you're saying, but selling Rashford for 50 cents on the dollar is likely to create a boatload of other issues namely that they'd likely have to pay more money to replace him with a player who was at best equal to him talent wise...unless they're scouting department can pull off a coup and identify some phenom that no one rates and thus doesn't have a high price tag.

The appeal of Bruno's red card was successful and he will be available for the next three PL games.

Was kind of hoping he'd be forced to sit so we could see how Mount or even Zirkzee did in that space. Oh well.

It would be great if Mount could stay healthy and start playing up to his 55 million transfer fee, Bruno needs a mental and physical break

Dre_00 said:

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Was kind of hoping he'd be forced to sit so we could see how Mount or even Zirkzee did in that space. Oh well.

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same.

Speaking of Mount, apparently he got a head injury and another injury. He's made of tissue paper and balsa wood.

Sounds like PSR might save ETH's job for at least the short term. Reports that it would cost 10-15m GBP to pay him off and some of his staff even if you assume RvN stays on as interim. With United playing close to the edge of PSR, that's a heavy burden to bear.

While I agree that the next two games are big for him (and I'm not confident at all in any success coming from them), I don't think heavy losses against Porto and Villa will be enough to get the decision makers to pull the trigger like all the screaming heads seem to be suggesting. At the end of the day, it's still the 1st week in October which means they'll have to pay him more now than say 3 months from now and they'll likely be thinking it's too early in the season to make a move...that there's still hope for a turnaround. Might be misguided hope but it will be there. I still think he has until the November international break. That would be 3 months into the season and if he's still getting tonked 3-0 anytime he plays a team with talent and eeking out 1-0 and 0-0s against the likes of Fulham and Palace, he'll be in massive trouble and I don't see how the decision makers could rationalize keeping him.

The writing is on the wall. It will almost definitely happen just not this week I don't think. Once a manager/club/team enters this death spiral it's nearly impossible for all of them to survive it. And the manager is almost always not one that survives it.

One of the problems he has is lack of personality. Let's say he was a master tactician, but things just aren't clicking. He lacks the personality to inspire his players to put in the effort every game nor does he have the personality to project confidence to the world to make outside players say I want to go there.

Oh I think he's done for if he loses twice. If he wins once, especially against Villa away, I don't know. But we do have that Jadon Sancho wage money that got freed up at the end.

And the cost is pretty much fixed; it's a little like Jimbo: you pay the same either way, you get to decide if you pay him to work or not. So we are really talking one year of wages (next year) since I think Ruud as caretaker would only get increased responsibility but not pay for this year.

Whether getting rid of him accelerates next years payment to this year, not sure, but I think you are overinflating the cost a bit.

This says his pay dropped to 6.75M pounds with not making Champion's League. They only exercised the extension for next year in his current contract, and you would kind of assume he'd only get the base amount if he got shown the door.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/40014094/ten-hag-faces-25-pay-cut-stays-man-united-sources

Todays lineup
Defense- same
Midfield - Casemiro Eriksen Bruno
Forward - Rashford Hojlund Amad

Presenting your Reds for Europa League matchday 2️⃣🔴#MUFC || #UEL

— Manchester United (@ManUtd) October 3, 2024

Casemiro and Eriksen. That has to be the least mobile midfield in history. Good thing we don't like to pres...wait.

Rashford with a much needed goal