I've had a unique experience that three consecutive games I refereed were livestreamed with commentary this season! Further reinforcing my belief that I hate watching myself run....

Katy ISD boys district looks really interesting this year. Lots of parity will make for a fun season.

Jim01 said:

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Yeah, my daughters games for I-10 on Thursday and Friday are both early in the day. I was sad that I would have to miss them until I saw the forecast... and then I wasn't so sad.

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Those games were the best both days. Hands down. Thursday night was awful.

Is it a Ref Jeff situation



Our Thursday game actually got cancelled because HISD wouldn't let their teams travel. Friday game was wet and cold and we lost 1-3 to Atascocita, but won the third place game 3-0 against George Ranch.

Jim01 said:

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Is it a Ref Jeff situation



Our Thursday game actually got cancelled because HISD wouldn't let their teams travel. Friday game was wet and cold and we lost 1-3 to Atascocita, but won the third place game 3-0 against George Ranch.

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LMAO thankfully it's not that bad

This is the time of year where I encourage my nieces and nephews to play indoor sports and not take after my kids. Although, my wife bought me a heated vest for Christmas which has been a game-changer so far this season. The Ororo brand is pretty legit if anyone is looking for extra warmth.

LandArchSA said:

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This is the time of year where I encourage my nieces and nephews to play indoor sports and not take after my kids. Although, my wife bought me a heated vest for Christmas which has been a game-changer so far this season. The Ororo brand is pretty legit if anyone is looking for extra warmth.

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I got the same heated vest as well and it's a game changer.

I received a yellow last night for telling the ref we don't stop the clock in a JV game because varsity has to start on time. He got upset and "I'm in charge here". So I was talking to the AR and that sent him over the edge.

Dumb.

Good lord. Who wants to stop the clock in a JV game?

I want that thing running double speed.

Mathguy64 said:

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Good lord. Who wants to stop the clock in a JV game?

I want that thing running double speed.

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Girls JVB and it was 5-0 at the time. My tone probably got me in trouble but I wasn't yelling or screaming.

The guy is a known doofus.

The message I have to give most often to other referees when I'm wearing my mentor or assessor hat is to check your dang ego and deescalate. Nine times out of ten, you can get out of a situation by agreeing with what the coach is saying (on its face) and then ignoring it once you leave the sideline to start the game back up.

But some of these dudes (always dudes, usually old) take every disagreement as an insult. It's infuriating for us, too.

Referees in JV games are guys I am assigning to learn how a HS match goes in an environment that means nothing. They can screw up and it has no consequences. We mentor them after to see how it went and walk through where they goofed.

This "should" have been handled before the match in a quick pregame interview. They should ask "Coach, how are you wanting the clock handled today?" Its a scrimmage masquerading as a JV game. If you want the clock stopped, ill stop it. If you dont, I wont.

Jim01 said:

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Is it a Ref Jeff situation

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Fosse, fosse, fosse. Martha Graham, martha graham, martha graham.

Such a great movie.

Mathguy64 said:

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Good lord. Who wants to stop the clock in a JV game?

I want that thing running double speed.

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The best timekeepers are the ones that can turn an 8 into a 3 really quick

King Koda said:

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Maybe not a perfectly officiated match. Here are images of the kick from spot which was saved but the AR said the goalie left her line early.

Shots were taken from video as the ball was kicked and just after.

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Sorry, I'm bringing this back up. We had a tournament where the girl topped the ball and it slow rolled to the goal. Naturally, not even a doubt that ball wasn't going in and they called the GK for leaving the line early. Tape showed she didn't.

So next tournament I have a conversation with officials at tournament on this issue. How can they know, unless it is obvious that the GK left the line early? They say, " we have eyes" and I say, "no way you can have your eyes both places". I honestly thought maybe they do it like outs at first base, watch the bag and listen for the ball to hit the glove, in soccer watch the line and listen for the kick. In the above example, she topped the ball so there is no sound, thus the reason for my question.

Obviously, my daughter is a GK.

Same question for offside. This one might be harder because there isn't really a sound, or if there is it's mid game play with much more field noise. My daughter is a winger, qualified for regionals in the 400m last year, so speed is her weapon. She's had two sure goals called back so far this HS season because I feel like the ref:

1. Tries to stay with the last defender
2. Also tries to watch play
3. Sees a pass
4. Then turns to see where the players are in relation to each other

In both instances my daughter timed her run perfectly and simply burnt the girl, but I think the ref sees the separation and thinks "she must have been offside". I sympathize because it's got to be hard to do that. (Of course I still maybe shout at them from time to time ) How do you approach trying to watch two places that are sometimes dozens of yard apart?

Also, are there any new big rule changes this year. I know the mercy rule is new. We played in the Clear Creek ISD tourney and mercy ruled 3 out of 4 games. I don't know why we even play in that thing. The last game against Aldine Davis we were up 5-0 halfway through the first and then just passed the ball around. The opposing coach came over at halftime and asked if we could just call it.

The one good game was again Port Neches Grove. Readers of this thread might remember pages back that we lost to them in the third round of the playoffs last year in a wild game where we got 6 or 7 yellows, 2 reds, and two parents got kicked out. We beat them 2-1! Not only that but we were down 0-1 and game back for the victory, and two of their girls got yellows. It was sweet.

Also in that game we subbed with like 3 minutes left and the clock stopped. The ref told our captain that if the team that is leading subs under 5 minutes then the clock stops to prevent time wasting. Is that a new rule or has it always been there? I like it. I hate time wasting BS.

Mathguy64 said:

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The closer the players are to you the harder it can be just because you lose field of view. Players on the far side are much easier. It's strictly a visual thing.

Yes flash lag can be a real thing but if they are in line and in position (or at least close) and moving with the defender the AR is in a lot better position than you are sitting stationary at an angle in a bleacher.

The clock rule has been around for a while.

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I'm fond of sassing coaches who complain about offside decisions by asking them if they have ever heard of flash lag. The looks I get are pretty funny sometimes.

Jim01 said:

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Same question for offside. This one might be harder because there isn't really a sound, or if there is it's mid game play with much more field noise. My daughter is a winger, qualified for regionals in the 400m last year, so speed is her weapon. She's had two sure goals called back so far this HS season because I feel like the ref:

1. Tries to stay with the last defender
2. Also tries to watch play
3. Sees a pass
4. Then turns to see where the players are in relation to each other

In both instances my daughter timed her run perfectly and simply burnt the girl, but I think the ref sees the separation and thinks "she must have been offside". I sympathize because it's got to be hard to do that. (Of course I still maybe shout at them from time to time ) How do you approach trying to watch two places that are sometimes dozens of yard apart?

Also, are there any new big rule changes this year. I know the mercy rule is new. We played in the Clear Creek ISD tourney and mercy ruled 3 out of 4 games. I don't know why we even play in that thing. The last game against Aldine Davis we were up 5-0 halfway through the first and then just passed the ball around. The opposing coach came over at halftime and asked if we could just call it.

The one good game was again Port Neches Grove. Readers of this thread might remember pages back that we lost to them in the third round of the playoffs last year in a wild game where we got 6 or 7 yellows, 2 reds, and two parents got kicked out. We beat them 2-1! Not only that but we were down 0-1 and game back for the victory, and two of their girls got yellows. It was sweet.

Also in that game we subbed with like 3 minutes left and the clock stopped. The ref told our captain that if the team that is leading subs under 5 minutes then the clock stops to prevent time wasting. Is that a new rule or has it always been there? I like it. I hate time wasting BS.

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Imagine that the refs that are officiating your game have already read the rule book and know the rule changes going into the season. They don't just catch up with them when the games have already started and say "Wait, there's a mercy rule now?" or "When did they start stopping the clock in the last 5 minutes?"

Now also imagine that they practice calling offside when the ball is kicked at a distance away from the 2nd to last defender that they're supposed to be watching. It's crazy to consider that the referees actually know what they're doing isn't it? Who ever woulda thunk that, right? Nah....... let's just get angry and yell at them instead. That's more fun

Not a ref... But this made me chuckle.
This coming from a quiet parent of a semi-high level player.

Yesh. Didn't mean to touch a nerve. I never said anything bad about refs at all, I was honestly curious and looking for insight as to how refs generally go about trying to judge offside. I literally said I sympathize with having to do the difficult task.

I am one of the quietest parents you'll ever meet. The two sure goals I mentioned above were probably the only two times I've yelled all season and they were both "Oh no! Good run (child's name). Bad call." No attacks or anything or rudeness.

So,1. screaming "Bad Call" is an attack.

2. Most refs know what they're doing AAAAANNNNNDDDD they're trying to get the decision correct.They don't care who wins or loses or how any one decision impacts either team. That's why they can get the decision correct in the moment. Whatever decision they make isn't always 50% correct (for the team that benefited) and 50% wrong (for the team that didn't benefit).

I've got a kid playing HS right now. Watching refs in her game can be cringy, especially when I know the rules and what they're supposed to be seeing. The biggest problem I have most of the time is the effort some refs gives. I can handle a guy who's trying hard to get into position but misses a call. I don't like the guy who isn't trying and doesn't care. You can see it; at least I can.

With this, I still don't yell at the refs. It does nothing productive and usually identifies the bigger doofus in the stands. I'm the guy sitting away from my team's parents also.

PS. What's the plural of doofus? Is it doofuses, doofus', or doofi?

There is a specific mom on our team I make a concerted effort to sit FAR away from, as she is insane.

I agree with not yelling at the ref, and maybe "bad call" isn't productive, you're right, but we all know it's hard when emotions and kids get involved. Like I said, "Bad call!" or "No way!" is about as far as I go when I rarely do speak up. I feel like calling that an "attack" is a bit wild though.

P.S. I vote doofuses

doofuses's

That's why I used to go out of my way to scream, "GOOD CALL, REF! We all know those players are a bunch of cheaters!" It's always better to stay on the ref's good side.

Jim01 said:

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There is a specific mom on our team I make a concerted effort to sit FAR away from, as she is insane.

I agree with not yelling at the ref, and maybe "bad call" isn't productive, you're right, but we all know it's hard when emotions and kids get involved. Like I said, "Bad call!" or "No way!" is about as far as I go when I rarely do speak up. I feel like calling that an "attack" is a bit wild though.

P.S. I vote doofuses

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It's not "a bit wild" when you consider a couple of things.

1) The referees are people
2) The laws of the game (or in high school, the rules) set a low bar for what constitutes dissent/inappropriate conduct by match participants and a high bar for the expectation of respect for match officials
3) The spectators never have a better combination of angle and proximity for a given decision than the officials do. You have no idea what actually happened because you are, at best, 30 yards away from the incident (10 yards of track, 10 yards of sideline, 10 yards of bleachers)? What is a bit wild is for spectators to think they (a) saw the incident better and (b) know the rules better than the people getting paid to see the incidents and apply the rules.

As an official, I'm consistently somewhere between laughing to myself at how silly it is for the spectators to be shouting what they shout and embarrassed on their behalf.

Jim01 said:

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I was honestly curious and looking for insight as to how refs generally go about trying to judge offside.

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Oh, that's easy. They look to the other half of the field from their position inside the opposite 16 yard box well after the ball has been played and if it seems like the attacking player is too far in front of the last defender, they blow for offside.

Point taken, but I would say two things.

First, like I said, I am a very quite parent, and most refs are great, but I am sure you have worked with people who are not great. When there is a blown call I think it's a struggle to just eat it. An extreme example would be, a friend of mine used to coach high school soccer in Minnesota and was in the girls semi final for State. In the final minute her team had a throw in and the girl launches it into the box where it was sent into the goal by a girl. The refs called offside. On a throw in. On a goal that would have sent them to state. If I'm in that crowd should I just sit there and accept it?

Second, I would agree most of the time the refs are closer, but offside would probably be the one instance where people in the stands could have a better view. From a distance you see more of the field and it's easier to see both actions in one frame.

But I digress... Thank you for reffing and being there for our kids. I teach my kid to never talk to the ref and let the coaches and team captain do all communication.

I promise you that your seat in the stands isn't a better place to see offside. Being in line and moving with the play matters. I May not get them all right but I'm in the right place, I know what to look for and I'm used to flash lag. And I do it a lot.

Fingers crossed but the ref crews we have had in HS have been pretty good. Consistent both ways.

Thinking through all the games and I can think of only one really bad call and the player did a great job drawing a foul.


Ref last night was particularly good in tamping down on the Tom foolery, clearly articulating early what shenanigans were and were not allowed. He even caught my daughter getting greedy on a throw by milking an extra 10-15 yards…made me chuckle.

Really stood out as my younger daughter not yet in HS played a showcase last weekend and it was night and day.

No game last night for my daughter's team. It was a rare off week in HS soccer. No games for me either. So guess what we did, we went to the local field up the street and watched HS boys 6A play. Man.... it wasn't pretty. Kids bumping into each other all over the field, Ball bouncing high off the turf the whole game.

Daughter noticed that one kid on the home team was very tall and only on the field to win headers. She started counting and got to 41 headers for this kid over the 72 minutes that we saw. Who knows how many he had in the first 8 minutes of the game. She tried to count his passes with his feet but forgot the number cuz it was so few. She guessed that it was about 10 passes with his feet though.

The great thing was that nobody was complaining about the ref at all. It was remarkably silent..... until 19 minutes left in the game. Some kid from the visiting team lost the ball. Normal turnover in midfield. Then he chases and fouls an opponent just cause.... there was no real reason. It was a clear foul and yellow card. Daughter and I must've been sitting behind his parents cuz mom, dad, and sister all said "just turn and walk away" amongst themselves. Dad said "Don't do it "junior"" But junior had to go ahead and say something to the ref, who promptly gave the kid a 2nd yellow and a red card. Not a single person argued on the field. I could see his coach put his head down in a "Dammit, not again" motion and that was that. But mom blamed it on the ref and got so mad that she had to get up and walk down the row and sit by herself for a few minutes. She wasn't mad at junior, she was mad at the ref even though she knew junior was going to get a red card for his mouth before junior got the card. After she came back to her seat, my daughter noticed she was disinterested in the game after that and was searching Ticketmaster for concert tickets and shopping on Amazon. I chuckled.

Then the lights went out in the stadium. Somehow, that was the referee's fault cuz that's the only time anyone blamed anything on the referee all night. I guess he didn't get on his microphone and explain to everyone that it was dark on the field cuz the lights were out, even though I'm not sure it needed an explanation. I still don't know how the lights is the ref's fault, but evidently, it is. Now I know.

I know this might sound strange, but I challenge any of you to go watch a game where you have no interest in the outcome. Watch a game where you don't know a player or coach or family and you didn't even attend that school district in any grade. Sit in the stands and just watch and listen. You'll really see that the ref doesn't do a bad job and isn't trying to influence the outcome for either team. You'll even see that they don't hardly miss any fouls. But what you'll really notice is the idiocy that comes from the parents sitting around you. I"d bet money that you'll say to yourself "Really? THAT'S what you saw in that play?" at least twice. And then you'll wonder "Is that how I sound during my team's games?" Hopefully it gives a different perspective.

Overall, most refs do a good a pretty good job. Are there some really bad ones? Yes. Do they all make the wrong calls at some point? Yes. But it's not easy and parents/coaches can be jerks.

Thanks to those that continue to show up to games and for training the newbs.