That happens for the first weekend of playoff games every year regardless of whether it's a holiday weekend. Some districts are proactive and have set plans and others don't. And sometimes even those well-laid plans don't work out anyway.

jeffk said:

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That happens for the first weekend of playoff games every year regardless of whether it's a holiday weekend. Some districts are proactive and have set plans and others don't. And sometimes even those well-laid plans don't work out anyway.

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Men and mice huh?

I know why our boys coach wanted. They cruised to a 5-0 victory and rested the starters in the 2nd half.

jessexy said:

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agsalaska said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

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I'm not sure if this is just a Florida thing, or if it's more nationwide, but for our past high school season, there was an emphasis placed on no disagreement of any kind with the referees. Taken to an extreme, if a coach took any kind of action that expressed displeasure, then it be a caution right there.

When I officiated, I wasn't a *****.

I "asked for clarification" a couple of times, and managed to stay out of the book. But come the next rules meeting, I'm calling them out.

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You can see that mindset a little bit on this thread. The idea that dissent is not only wrong but punishable. It is dishonest for a ref not to allow some dissent.

I remember several years ago watching some random CONCACAF game where an MLS team was down in Central America and they drew some notorious local ref who took it to the extreme. Pretty sure it was Landon Donovan that finally tested him about 20 minutes in and he was immediately carded. That type of officiating really sucks the life out of a soccer game.


This has been a great TexAgs thread by the way.

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I think it makes the game way better when the coach is coaching his team rather than yelling at the refer. I think the game is waaaaaaaaaaaay better when the players are competing against each other and trying to score goals instead of whining to the referee.

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There's yelling at the referee, and asking why they did XYZ. I raised my voice maybe one time during the whole season, and surprised the hell out of an assistant coach. But if a referee makes a call that doesn't make sense, then I'm going to find out what happened. And if the explanation doesn't gibe, then as long as I don't make it personal, they can't get all pissy when I tell them they were wrong.

I ran a line last night. First time in maybe a year that I have held a flag. The first 10 minutes I was a **** show. I was behind the play. I signaled the wrong way once. I almost got caught with flash lag. I felt like a newbie.

Reminder to self. Maybe hold a flag periodically.

LeonardSkinner said:

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jessexy said:

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agsalaska said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

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I'm not sure if this is just a Florida thing, or if it's more nationwide, but for our past high school season, there was an emphasis placed on no disagreement of any kind with the referees. Taken to an extreme, if a coach took any kind of action that expressed displeasure, then it be a caution right there.

When I officiated, I wasn't a *****.

I "asked for clarification" a couple of times, and managed to stay out of the book. But come the next rules meeting, I'm calling them out.

---

You can see that mindset a little bit on this thread. The idea that dissent is not only wrong but punishable. It is dishonest for a ref not to allow some dissent.

I remember several years ago watching some random CONCACAF game where an MLS team was down in Central America and they drew some notorious local ref who took it to the extreme. Pretty sure it was Landon Donovan that finally tested him about 20 minutes in and he was immediately carded. That type of officiating really sucks the life out of a soccer game.


This has been a great TexAgs thread by the way.

---

I think it makes the game way better when the coach is coaching his team rather than yelling at the refer. I think the game is waaaaaaaaaaaay better when the players are competing against each other and trying to score goals instead of whining to the referee.

---

There's yelling at the referee, and asking why they did XYZ. I raised my voice maybe one time during the whole season, and surprised the hell out of an assistant coach. But if a referee makes a call that doesn't make sense, then I'm going to find out what happened. And if the explanation doesn't gibe, then as long as I don't make it personal, they can't get all pissy when I tell them they were wrong.

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I mean..... ok. But stopping the game to explain things to coaches happens in other sports. This is soccer. No tv timeouts where you get to stomp onto the court or field and have a go. You can ask away but the game is still going. A whole lot is happening on the field to pay attention to the guy asking about a play from 5 minutes ago. The game has restarted and the LOTG or rules don't allow me to change it anyway. You may not like that but it is what it is.

If I am forced to stop the game to answer your question, then you're getting a card.
You tell me I'm wrong, you're getting a card.
If it doesn't make sense to you, not really the refs problem.
If it doesn't gibe after that, even less of the refs problem.

You are the coach of one team for that gsme. Coach your team.
I'm the referee for that game. I referee.
I don't tell you where to put players on the field, or call out your mistakes, or suggest what formation to play or what substitution to make. It's just not how the whole thing works.

I've learned, from being on both sides of things, that coaches and refs often have very different ideas of what dissent is. And yeah, at some point you have to move on from a controversial call so the rest of the game can be played. And while I'm sympathetic to stories from coaches and refs both in which they're being mistreated… I also realize we're getting one side of a story.

I know I'm an absolute ******* in a version of a story about how a JV coach got unfairly red-carded by this incompetent referee with a chip on his shoulder (me).

But the part about the coach arguing every call, dog-cussing the officials loudly, and then entering the field of play to slap a yellow card out of my hand probably doesn't get airtime.

How's everyone feeling about where things are? Has it gone mostly as expected? We're in 5A R3 and have a few tough teams to get through before Georgetown

Memorial taking out Ridge Point was nice. I still think Stratford is the best team in Region III.

Our boys team won in 2nd OT with a banger from 40 yards out with 15 seconds left. 1 in 1000 shot.


Our girls choked and lost to an inferior team. That's how soccer go I guess.

I did Consol v Friendswood early in the season. I can't say what they look like now but at the time there was a big gap between them.

Always amazing to see the reactions of these players and their families when they realize there are consequences that extend outside the lines.

Play offs can be hard to watch. For some of these kids it's the last meaningful game of their life.

It was 3-0.

We hopefully will have a rematch this week after we take down PNG tomorrow night [fingers crossed].

I think I commented about it when it happened. We have five serious club players with a couple more that play lower club. A&M has club at every position. It was very noticeable. I think we would have to have the absolute best game of our season to have a chance to knock them off.

jessexy said:

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LeonardSkinner said:

---

jessexy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

LeonardSkinner said:

---

I'm not sure if this is just a Florida thing, or if it's more nationwide, but for our past high school season, there was an emphasis placed on no disagreement of any kind with the referees. Taken to an extreme, if a coach took any kind of action that expressed displeasure, then it be a caution right there.

When I officiated, I wasn't a *****.

I "asked for clarification" a couple of times, and managed to stay out of the book. But come the next rules meeting, I'm calling them out.

---

You can see that mindset a little bit on this thread. The idea that dissent is not only wrong but punishable. It is dishonest for a ref not to allow some dissent.

I remember several years ago watching some random CONCACAF game where an MLS team was down in Central America and they drew some notorious local ref who took it to the extreme. Pretty sure it was Landon Donovan that finally tested him about 20 minutes in and he was immediately carded. That type of officiating really sucks the life out of a soccer game.


This has been a great TexAgs thread by the way.

---

I think it makes the game way better when the coach is coaching his team rather than yelling at the refer. I think the game is waaaaaaaaaaaay better when the players are competing against each other and trying to score goals instead of whining to the referee.

---

There's yelling at the referee, and asking why they did XYZ. I raised my voice maybe one time during the whole season, and surprised the hell out of an assistant coach. But if a referee makes a call that doesn't make sense, then I'm going to find out what happened. And if the explanation doesn't gibe, then as long as I don't make it personal, they can't get all pissy when I tell them they were wrong.

---

I mean..... ok. But stopping the game to explain things to coaches happens in other sports. This is soccer. No tv timeouts where you get to stomp onto the court or field and have a go. You can ask away but the game is still going. A whole lot is happening on the field to pay attention to the guy asking about a play from 5 minutes ago. The game has restarted and the LOTG or rules don't allow me to change it anyway. You may not like that but it is what it is.

If I am forced to stop the game to answer your question, then you're getting a card.
You tell me I'm wrong, you're getting a card.
If it doesn't make sense to you, not really the refs problem.
If it doesn't gibe after that, even less of the refs problem.

You are the coach of one team for that gsme. Coach your team.
I'm the referee for that game. I referee.
I don't tell you where to put players on the field, or call out your mistakes, or suggest what formation to play or what substitution to make. It's just not how the whole thing works.

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Looks like you made a couple of assumptions, and I apologize for not being more clear. I don't interrupt the match, I'll wait for a stoppage. I'll say, "can I ask about this call?" And if it warrants, I'll say that the explanation or interpretation doesn't make sense.

I don't make it personal, public, or provocative.

Problem is that the referee association has chosen to regard disagreement and discussion as dissent.

Are all the other coaches in your district/area as respectful as you? Getting the refs to ease up a bit on carding dissent from coaches is probably doable, but there's also most likely a reason they're cracking down.

Question for the referees...
Do careless tactical challenges (SPA) at the high school level deserve a cooling off sub?
I can see it with reckless or persistence.

Question for the referees:

Do you feel tactical fouls (SPA) that aren't reckless deserve a substitution?

Rudyjax said:

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Question for the referees:

Do you feel tactical fouls (SPA) that aren't reckless deserve a substitution?

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SPA without advantage is a yellow. In HS come off.

Stepping on or off the field without permission is a yellow. In HS come off.

Delaying a restart is a yellow. In HS come off.

Changing a GK on the fly without permission gets a yellow. In HS come off.

They are all the same. None are coming off to cool down mentally. They just all come off.

Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Question for the referees:

Do you feel tactical fouls (SPA) that aren't reckless deserve a substitution?

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SPA without advantage is a yellow. In HS come off.

Stepping on or off the field without permission is a yellow. In HS come off.

Delaying a restart is a yellow. In HS come off.

Changing a GK on the fly without permission gets a yellow. In HS come off.

They are all the same. None are coming off to cool down mentally. They just all come off.

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So the rule wasn't put in place to cool them down?

It just says "get a yellow and go off until the next legal sub opportunity". Why isn't written.

But the aim is provide an avenue to cool down and provide the coach an opportunity to explain what they did as an extension of the classroom. And it gives another player a chance to participate. And that's always a subtle thing in HS.

It's just different from IFAB.

Remember IFAB is written for all games including pros. What happens in pro games doesn't always translate downwards. HS is written specific to HS. College the same for college.

Mathguy64 said:

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It just says "get a yellow and go off until the next legal sub opportunity". Why isn't written.

But the aim is provide an avenue to cool down and provide the coach an opportunity to explain what they did as an extension of the classroom. And it gives another player a chance to participate. And that's always a subtle thing in HS.

It's just different from IFAB.

Remember IFAB is written for all games including pros. What happens in pro games doesn't always translate downwards. HS is written specific to HS. College the same for college.

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Right... and I was asking you how feel about a non reckless SPA foul being treated the same as dissent or a reckless challenge.

That's all. I understand everything else you posted. You're reading way too much into my question or not enough.

I knew what you were getting at. It's the rule in HS. It's not a question of like or dislike.

It does make it easier to follow. Every yellow goes out. Having refs justify or distinguish SPA from UB and getting coaches who don't know the difference to understand is probably asking a LOT.

Then add in playing advantage on SPA wipes out coming back to issue a card where as you can come back to UB later.

Just keep it simple. You get a yellow, you start walking.

Mathguy64 said:

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I knew what you were getting at. It's the rule in HS. It's not a question of like or dislike.

It does make it easier to follow. Every yellow goes out. Having refs justify or distinguish SPA from UB and getting coaches who don't know the difference to understand is probably asking a LOT.

Then add in playing advantage on SPA wipes out coming back to issue a card where as you can come back to UB later.

Just keep it simple. You get a yellow, you start walking.

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I get all that...

So you like it because it makes it easier for you. Got it. Wrong emoji.

It makes it easier for all. A coach doesn't have to wonder which one it is. Just sub out and keep going.

Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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I knew what you were getting at. It's the rule in HS. It's not a question of like or dislike.

It does make it easier to follow. Every yellow goes out. Having refs justify or distinguish SPA from UB and getting coaches who don't know the difference to understand is probably asking a LOT.

Then add in playing advantage on SPA wipes out coming back to issue a card where as you can come back to UB later.

Just keep it simple. You get a yellow, you start walking.

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I get all that...

So you like it because it makes it easier for you. Got it. Wrong emoji.

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I deal with 40 different referees (of various abilities) and countess coaches (many of whom know less than nothing about the details of the NFHS rule book). Easy is sometimes good. This HS rule keeps things consistent. Its hard enough getting every referee to follow what they are supposed to follow. Hell every couple of years some bozo gives a soft red card because they vaguely remember that from the past. Its taken 3 years to get them all to do dropped balls instead of IFKs on injuries. Then factor in the IFAB versus NFHS differences and getting refs to keep that straight. If they had to make some go and let some stay it would be a nightmare of inconsistencies all over the place. Is that really what you want?

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Got it. That was more than I asked for but it makes perfect sense.

Thank you.

Ok here's a doozy.

15 min left in first half. Down 0-1. PNG player makes contact with our goalie (I'm told, didn't notice it personally). Our goalie apparently then calls her a *****. The linesman hears it and flags it. Ref gives her a red card!

Apparently they told them before the game no cussing but come on!!! These are hormonal teenage girls in a one goal playoff game and you are going straight red?!?!? We then gave up a second goal and are currently down 0-2.

They are the better team but there is a huge wind and they had it at their back first half, now we get it.

I'd like to call the ref a few cuss word right now!

And you are now getting a yellow card for dissent.

That was WILD.

Final score PNG 3 - Friendswood 0

For some reference, I talked to a seniors dad and he said we haven't had a red card in the four years his daughter's been on the team. Also, for the entire year I believe we had three yellow cards. One for our attacking mid being mouthy (which she can be), one for an aggressive tackle, and I want to say one more.

This game? Finished with 2 reds and about 6-7 yellows. In a game that wasn't physical AT ALL. I mean that doesn't just magically happen.


It started with our attacking mid getting a yellow for hard contact behind the play about 5 minutes into the game. She tends to be overly physical, but personally 5 min in I would expect a simple "watch it #2" from the ref. Didn't even seem long enough to work her way up to a yellow.

Then the aforementioned red. After talking to my daughter she said the ref specifically says "I'm not going to tolerate any cussing." Then apparently what happened was that an PNG player was really playing mind games saying things like "You suck! You can't punt! You couldn't top a ball to save your life!" Then our goalie snapped and yelled at her to "STFU!" twice. Again, I don't care if you outright gave the players a zero tolerance ultimatum about cussing. These are competitive and hormonal teenagers. To go straight red for one cuss word is wild. If it was a slur of some kind? Absolutely! If it was directed at the ref? Absolutely! But directed towards another player after being badgered? You completely have changed the entire game with that red!

It was 0-2 at half and then we got the wind and started to make some chances. Continued to get a few yellows for hard fouls. It just seemed there was no in between. It was either a no call or a yellow. There were probably as many yellows as regular fouls all game.

The second red was after a debatable foul call (but by no means a bad call). One of our players said "learn how to do your job" to the ref. Very deserved yellow. But then as she walks off the field the ref follows her and she says it again. Boom! Second yellow into a red. The issue is that the ref did this all game. Call a foul, give a card, and walk away! She constantly followed directly behind players. Yes the player should have controlled herself better but again, these are teenagers. De-escalate. Give the card and walk away! Give the player a chance to cool off!

At that point it was still only 0-2 but the wheels were off. Parents were going nuts. One set of parents got kicked out of the game. The funny thing is their daughter didn't even see the field the entire game. Then another parent (whose kid is on JV!) and who is a sideline photographer started asking the linesman questions while one of our girls was down hurt and play was dead. The ref noticed, came over and ejected him.

Overall just a sad end to the season. PNG was better but with a ref that just let them play it would have been a really fun second half.

On the upside my daughter had a great game and basically shut down the left side. She also kept her cool the entire game and was more so pissed at her teammates for losing control of their emotions. She told me when the second red card went down multiple players were in tears and she got pissed and said "Stop talking, pick up your head and mark someone!" That made me proud to see that leadership come out of her.

Was really hoping for a rematch with A&M Consolidated. It it looks like it was neither of our nights.

Rudyjax said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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I knew what you were getting at. It's the rule in HS. It's not a question of like or dislike.

It does make it easier to follow. Every yellow goes out. Having refs justify or distinguish SPA from UB and getting coaches who don't know the difference to understand is probably asking a LOT.

Then add in playing advantage on SPA wipes out coming back to issue a card where as you can come back to UB later.

Just keep it simple. You get a yellow, you start walking.

---

I get all that...

So you like it because it makes it easier for you. Got it. Wrong emoji.

---

I deal with 40 different referees (of various abilities) and countess coaches (many of whom know less than nothing about the details of the NFHS rule book). Easy is sometimes good. This HS rule keeps things consistent. Its hard enough getting every referee to follow what they are supposed to follow. Hell every couple of years some bozo gives a soft red card because they vaguely remember that from the past. Its taken 3 years to get them all to do dropped balls instead of IFKs on injuries. Then factor in the IFAB versus NFHS differences and getting refs to keep that straight. If they had to make some go and let some stay it would be a nightmare of inconsistencies all over the place. Is that really what you want?

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Got it. That was more than I asked for but it makes perfect sense.

Thank you.

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you made a snarky response, so you got a longer answer.
Thank you

I am really curious who that ref was. Just poor management.

Also, at the time of the 2nd yellow for the dissent, had the sub already been added?