***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

54,542 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by aggiephoenix02
Rudyjax
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Fall92 said:

Alexi needs to have his liver checked.


I saw that too and mentioned it at our game watching event and someone said the same thing.
jeffk
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Good job, good effort everyone.
tysker
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Where is all love for Tata Martino nowadays
tysker
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jeffk said:

Good job, good effort everyone.

O Captain! My Captain
Socrates05
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I love Marsch as a manager, but I'm not sold on him as a US manager. This may be better for another thread in a few days to discuss what makes a manager great versus what makes a great international manager but I see Marsch as a instill your ethos and tactics into a club type of guy instead of a develop a tactic to best fit your pool type of guy.

Again, I don't know the right answer but my initial thought is experienced international option with 4-3-3 preference who favors a high energy press. If that person exists, but that's the mold.
AustinScubaAg
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PatAg said:

chjoak said:

My $0.02 going forward...

GK - we are in decent shape but need to find atleast a couple guys to push Turner
FB - Robinson & Dest are a good tandem going forward. Need to identify strong backups that can push them and provide us depth. Scally may be that option at RB.
CB - Need to start over. They weren't terrible but too many lapses and Ream is simply too old. Carter-Vickers could be an option going forward but we badly need to identify better options in the pool.
CM - good young core. Need to continue to develop and find more quality depth.
W - same as CM
ST - gotta find a few guys who can actually score. We scored 3 goals in 4 matches. The only one from a ST was a fluke goal.
Manager - not a fan of Greg. Would rather we find a Euro manager to help shape the NT pool. If the federation opts to keep him, he really needs to gets some assistants with Euro/South American experience that can bring some new concepts & mentality.

Overall we need to be encouraging our best players to get to Europe. MLS is just not good enough to develop players for international play. All of our young guys need to be playing in England, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany or Italy.
CB we had two young players get injured that possibly would have started

Midfield there already is depth, Gregg just didnt really bring in 4-5 players for one reason or another until it was too late
wasted a year with players like trapp and yueill


What midfeid players do you mean. I am not sure another quality midfeilder not on the roster. Starter to sub was a huge drop except arrinson
Seven Costanza
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Having Pulisic kick corners is like having Shaq shoot technicals.
Rudyjax
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Add to that, if we hire Marsh it's because he was fired by Leeds.

Gordo14
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TRM said:

Furlock Bones said:

Stop the Nepotism. Stop the grift.



Who are you going to hire then?

Hiring an American who has had a successful career at the top leagues in the world is not the same as hiring a middling MLS coach who's brother is powerful in the USSF.
DeangeloVickers
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I like
Gary Blair
Megan Rapinoe
Kanye

All over Gregg
Rudyjax
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What's Arena up to these days?
zgolfz85
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just haven't been organized at the front all tourney. we set up well, but the angles that our players make on runs are so frantic. we had 2 incredible chances aside from the CP chance so early on, but in both, guys were all right up on the goal line. If even one stays back a bit, they're in play for easy one timers. there's just no finesse or confidence when we get in or around the box. all in all, great tourney, but we had the squad to get to the quarters. to me, it's a disappointment, but only a small one. not getting out of the group would've been a nightmare, but I really wanted a closer match here. then again, we had some bad luck. the chances were there...so many gaps closed last second, balls that just rose, couldn't get a head on many corners or swinging crosses.

this team is going to be nails in 26 though. this core will all be 24-28. the automatic qualifier hopefully won't let these guys get too comfy leading up because we've got a lot of work to do to level up.
fig96
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TRM said:

Gordo14 said:

Socrates05 said:

Mathguy64 said:

Who coaches this squad for the next cycle will be a huge decision. Do they leave ggg in place? Bring in someone from MLS? Bring in someone from the US Soccer pipeline like Ramos who coached these players in the U17/19 teams? Bring in someone like Marsch? Or bring in someone totally outside from the international level?

I don't know the right answer but that's going to be fascinating to watch.


I don't know the right answer but I know the wrong answer and that is keeping Gregg. It's also bringing in someone from MLS.




The right answer is use an interm head coach, and hire Jesse Marsch after the EPL season
What's the order of preference if you wanted to hire an American coaches?

1. Marsch
2. Dolo
3. Ramos
4. Other

What non-American manager would you want?

No Ramos, his only success has come at the youth levels.

Outside of Marsch IMO you're thinking too small here (and I get that you said American coaches). This job is going to be super appealing to a top level manager, the '26 squad will be loaded with European based talent in their prime.
oh no
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This squad was a joy to watch from the concacaf nations league and gold cup through qualifying and through this tournament. We've never had this much quality in the pool and most of it is so young with younger guys pushing them.

Unfortunately after 3 matches, our top two fullbacks and our MMA midfield were gassed as hell and it showed.
Socrates05
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zgolfz85 said:

just haven't been organized at the front all tourney.


This is (one of) my main issue(s) with Gregg. It's not just all tourney, it's been his entire tenure. There doesn't appear to be much plan in the final third besides out talent the opponent. While serviceable for CONCACAF it's not acceptable overall.

Since no one asked the other is lack of in game adjustment or plan B. We roll out the same strategy game in game out and what we start with is how we finish. Today was a perfect illustration of an opponent mixing it up to match our strength and us having no response.

He gets a lot of flack for squad choices and subs. I share the frustration but I don't think there is a manager out there that doesn't. They all have their favorites who aren't the best but they trust to implement what they want. While the inexplicable favorites might change, I have no hope that we find a manager who doesn't have them in some way.
KCup17
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Well I've had some time to think. Disappointed in our performance and substitutes. Serious questions need to be asked of this coaching staff in the coming months. Overall I'm very proud of this young group of guys. Future looks bright.
Rudyjax
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KCup17 said:

Well I've had some time to think. Disappointed in our performance and substitutes. Serious questions need to be asked of this coaching staff in the coming months. Overall I'm very proud of this young group of guys. Future looks bright.


Nope. Don't renew their contracts and never speak to them again. Hire new staff.

KCup17
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Also shout out to jeffk for the game threads. You are a gentleman and a scholar!
KCup17
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You gotta have conversations to fire them Chuck…
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Here's my take after watching this World Cup and the round of 16 match in particular:

The USMNT is no longer losing because there is a real and systematic talent gap. We have the talent. We still lack the depth and a few pieces. But we're no longer looking to qualify and advance on more gimmicky tactics and luck. We can go head to head against anyone and expect to win (or at least be competitive).

Imagine this squad with a proper, world class #9 and a little more depth. We would be in the thick of the conversation about competing to be in the semi finals and maybe more.

We've gotten past the "scrap to qualify and then hope to stay alive" level of talent to the "we qualify because we're better than you and are in the conversation of teams that will make a run" level of talent. I saw real, actual advancement. 2026 is going to be fun.

ETA: we need a new manager.
BudFox7
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Pulisic has to convert early. Entirely different match. Haji with an atrocious attempt, the score moments later doesn't dismiss it.

So many quality looks, couldn't finish all tournament.
oragator
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Today sucks because we weren't terribly outplayed outside of the finishing, get us a legit striker for '26 and we should be dangerous. Great lessons today in what it takes to win but a bright future.

But my final thought for the US on this World Cup is this…

Think about where we were after T&T four years ago. Even die hard fans had a crisis of faith, we were nowhere. And look where we are now and how the future looks. In the post game, Clint Dempsey said it best, "They got this country believing again". Can't say it much better than that, and why I won't say a negative word about tonight or this last few weeks.

On to '26.
PatAg
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AustinScubaAg said:

PatAg said:

chjoak said:

My $0.02 going forward...

GK - we are in decent shape but need to find atleast a couple guys to push Turner
FB - Robinson & Dest are a good tandem going forward. Need to identify strong backups that can push them and provide us depth. Scally may be that option at RB.
CB - Need to start over. They weren't terrible but too many lapses and Ream is simply too old. Carter-Vickers could be an option going forward but we badly need to identify better options in the pool.
CM - good young core. Need to continue to develop and find more quality depth.
W - same as CM
ST - gotta find a few guys who can actually score. We scored 3 goals in 4 matches. The only one from a ST was a fluke goal.
Manager - not a fan of Greg. Would rather we find a Euro manager to help shape the NT pool. If the federation opts to keep him, he really needs to gets some assistants with Euro/South American experience that can bring some new concepts & mentality.

Overall we need to be encouraging our best players to get to Europe. MLS is just not good enough to develop players for international play. All of our young guys need to be playing in England, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany or Italy.
CB we had two young players get injured that possibly would have started

Midfield there already is depth, Gregg just didnt really bring in 4-5 players for one reason or another until it was too late
wasted a year with players like trapp and yueill


What midfeid players do you mean. I am not sure another quality midfeilder not on the roster. Starter to sub was a huge drop except arrinson
Quite a few that Berhalter never really brought in for one reason or another
Boiling Denim
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Met the bare minimum for this tourney I felt. Can't complain but not gonna write any poems about it either

Long ways to go yet. Need a lot more versatility up top. Need some poachers, target guys, guys who can get on the end of a cross. The Dutch were giving us free crosses early but we chose to cut back in every time knowing we didn't have any targets to aim for

Can't fall in love with the athletes and ignore the technicals as well. Europeans teams have no qualms about parking the bus and destroying you on the counter with a few one touch passes. Especially if you can't prove you can make dangerous passes in the final third
jeffk
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Haha, thanks. It was a fun ride! Excited about hosting in 2026.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Boiling Denim said:

Long ways to go yet. Need a lot more versatility up top. Need some poachers, target guys, guys who can get on the end of a cross. The Dutch were giving us free crosses early but we chose to cut back in every time knowing we didn't have any targets to aim for
this post really hits the nail on the head regarding my point about talent. We're having conversations about missing pieces, not systematic talent dearth. So as far as it seems we have to go, we've already come a really long way.
zgolfz85
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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

Here's my take after watching this World Cup and the round of 16 match in particular:

The USMNT is no longer losing because there is a real and systematic talent gap. We have the talent. We still lack the depth and a few pieces. But we're no longer looking to qualify and advance on more gimmicky tactics and luck. We can go head to head against anyone and expect to win (or at least be competitive).

Imagine this squad with a proper, world class #9 and a little more depth. We would be in the thick of the conversation about competing to be in the semi finals and maybe more.

We've gotten past the "scrap to qualify and then hope to stay alive" level of talent to the "we qualify because we're better than you and are in the conversation of teams that will make a run" level of talent. I saw real, actual advancement. 2026 is going to be fun.

ETA: we need a new manager.


Agreed, this is the most class we've had as a team in our lives. Too bad Dempsey is 39 and not 35. I feel like he alone could've been the difference today

I'm also a little disappointed in the 2 shots CP took outside the box. He doesn't have that shot and we didn't have guys in rebound position. 1 more touch on those chances or a late pass could've been magical instead of the 2 inevitable giveaways
TulaneAg
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If there's not an obvious American manager, I'd love to go to Europe or South America and get/steal a hired gun coach that's got some skins on the wall.
tysker
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jeffk said:

Haha, thanks. It was a fun ride! Excited about hosting in 2026.

Ya that one is gonna be a lotta work for you
Agvet12
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zgolfz85 said:

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

Here's my take after watching this World Cup and the round of 16 match in particular:

The USMNT is no longer losing because there is a real and systematic talent gap. We have the talent. We still lack the depth and a few pieces. But we're no longer looking to qualify and advance on more gimmicky tactics and luck. We can go head to head against anyone and expect to win (or at least be competitive).

Imagine this squad with a proper, world class #9 and a little more depth. We would be in the thick of the conversation about competing to be in the semi finals and maybe more.

We've gotten past the "scrap to qualify and then hope to stay alive" level of talent to the "we qualify because we're better than you and are in the conversation of teams that will make a run" level of talent. I saw real, actual advancement. 2026 is going to be fun.

ETA: we need a new manager.


Agreed, this is the most class we've had as a team in our lives. Too bad Dempsey is 39 and not 35. I feel like he alone could've been the difference today

I'm also a little disappointed in the 2 shots CP took outside the box. He doesn't have that shot and we didn't have guys in rebound position. 1 more touch on those chances or a late pass could've been magical instead of the 2 inevitable giveaways


I'm just happy they finally decided to let loose and take the shot, all tourney we watched them take that extra step and lose it
KCup17
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Instead of TexAg game threads, TexAgs tailgates for '26?
fig96
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zgolfz85 said:

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

Here's my take after watching this World Cup and the round of 16 match in particular:

The USMNT is no longer losing because there is a real and systematic talent gap. We have the talent. We still lack the depth and a few pieces. But we're no longer looking to qualify and advance on more gimmicky tactics and luck. We can go head to head against anyone and expect to win (or at least be competitive).

Imagine this squad with a proper, world class #9 and a little more depth. We would be in the thick of the conversation about competing to be in the semi finals and maybe more.

We've gotten past the "scrap to qualify and then hope to stay alive" level of talent to the "we qualify because we're better than you and are in the conversation of teams that will make a run" level of talent. I saw real, actual advancement. 2026 is going to be fun.

ETA: we need a new manager.


Agreed, this is the most class we've had as a team in our lives. Too bad Dempsey is 39 and not 35. I feel like he alone could've been the difference today

I'm also a little disappointed in the 2 shots CP took outside the box. He doesn't have that shot and we didn't have guys in rebound position. 1 more touch on those chances or a late pass could've been magical instead of the 2 inevitable giveaways
The problem is we don't yet have the supporting cast to let Pulisic do what he does. He's most dangerous wide on the dribble and making runs into the box, but we don't have anyone who can really pull the strings in the middle.

I don't know if that player is Reyna or McKennie or Musah or someone else we don't have on the roster yet, but if we can combine someone creating in the center of the pitch with Pulisic/Weah/Aaronson out wide and find a true 9 to start punching goals in this squad can be seriously dangerous.
KCup17
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fig96 said:

zgolfz85 said:

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

Here's my take after watching this World Cup and the round of 16 match in particular:

The USMNT is no longer losing because there is a real and systematic talent gap. We have the talent. We still lack the depth and a few pieces. But we're no longer looking to qualify and advance on more gimmicky tactics and luck. We can go head to head against anyone and expect to win (or at least be competitive).

Imagine this squad with a proper, world class #9 and a little more depth. We would be in the thick of the conversation about competing to be in the semi finals and maybe more.

We've gotten past the "scrap to qualify and then hope to stay alive" level of talent to the "we qualify because we're better than you and are in the conversation of teams that will make a run" level of talent. I saw real, actual advancement. 2026 is going to be fun.

ETA: we need a new manager.


Agreed, this is the most class we've had as a team in our lives. Too bad Dempsey is 39 and not 35. I feel like he alone could've been the difference today

I'm also a little disappointed in the 2 shots CP took outside the box. He doesn't have that shot and we didn't have guys in rebound position. 1 more touch on those chances or a late pass could've been magical instead of the 2 inevitable giveaways
The problem is we don't yet have the supporting cast to let Pulisic do what he does. He's most dangerous wide on the dribble and making runs into the box, but we don't have anyone who can really pull the strings in the middle.

I don't know if that player is Reyna or McKennie or Musah or someone else we don't have on the roster yet, but if we can combine someone creating in the center of the pitch with Pulisic/Weah/Aaronson out wide and find a true 9 to start punching goals in this squad can be seriously dangerous.


This. How many times did he pick the ball up between lines and run at defenders, try to play in another player but that player was either too slow or a step behind? I saw this happen with Wright a few times.
birdman
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If Berhalter sticks around for another 12 months, that's no big deal. He may not be the second coming, but he isn't going to do any damage. USSF just needs to take their time and get the right guy.

If I had my pick, it would be Jorge Sampaoli. He's coached Chile and Argentina national teams. He did wonders for Chile. Sampaoli got criticized for Argentina's performance in last World Cup, but it wasn't that bad. He's currently managing in La Liga.

With our midfield talent, a guy like him could turn us into a dynamic squad. And USMNT would attack relentlessly under Sampaoli. Lots of gas, very little brakes. It would be fun to watch.
wangus12
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AG
You don't even need a world class #9. Even Altidore in his prime would have done well here with the amount of service we had.
 
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