4 said:

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cevans_40 said:

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I am not sure there was ever a noticeable consensus that both Kyler and Kyle were not good. They both quit on their team but they both have physical gifts. Let's see how their NFL careers play out before we start proclaiming them the next coming of Joe Montana.

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So now the bar for a good is Joe Montana?

They are both starting NFL quarterbacks, and one of them won the Heisman trophy.

I'd say the jury is no longer out as to whether or not they're any good

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Okay. Like I said, no one said they weren't good. They are good. They both quit on their team. Kyler quitting turned out great for him. Kyle, not so much. He made an NFL roster based on his physical tools and potential not due to his college resume. We shall see how it goes for both.

T-Shizzle said:

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Jarrin' Jay said:

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Raptor said:

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Leander - Ag said:

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TheWoodsAg said:

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In all fairness, Sumlin completely fubar'd the QB room at A&M and as a result we gave him a $15 million check for it.

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What a complete disaster KS was. Looking back it is was Fran level incompetence.

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Our highest national ranking 5th in the final AP poll in the past 25+ years. If Sumlin is guilty of all of our woes, then he gets some credit for what Sherill, RC, Fran, Sherm, and Jimbo couldn't or can't do. Not since 1956 have we been ranked 5th or higher in the AP to finish a season.

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He will always be listed as the HC of the 2012 team. But really his only accomplishment was inheriting a team of Top 10 talent accumulated and coached up by his predecessor, and having Kliff to coach the greatest assembly of offensive talent we had ever had. Every single starter on the 2012 offense, which Sumlin had nothing to do with their recruiting and development, played in the NFL including the entire OL. That is unheard of.

The truest measure of the real value of Sumlin as a HC and his competence level is revealed by looking at his last 4 seasons at A&M. The fact is the further we got away from Sherman recruited and developed players, the worse we got. That is not an opinion, that is a fact, and it is why we had the worst most embarrassing comeback loss in the history of Power 5 football followed the next week by being tied with an FCS school in the 4Q in Sumlin's last season....


Sumlin should have been fired before he was, but for certain we should not have paid his buyout due to "letter-gate".....

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Bwahahaha well what about all the defensive players Sumlin recruited here? That went on to the NFL
Davante Harris, Dashawn Hall, Myles Garrett, Zay Henderson, Armani Watts, Justin Evans, Donovan Wilson, Otaro Alaka, Tyrell Dodson, Brandon Williams, Kingsley Keke,!

What about the talent that's on the team now that Sumlin recruited! All this Sumlin hate is a joke! He didn't get it done here! Fine! It happens ,but the hate is unreal and I know why, and it's sad!

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Not sure it's hate.... frustration maybe. why is it sad?

Ag4coal said:

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TheWoodsAg said:

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In all fairness, Sumlin completely fubar'd the QB room at A&M and as a result we gave him a $15 million check for it.

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According to the Spav interview during the TX state game, Sumlin wasn't even in the QB room. Was completely checked out of that process. Wonder why they left?

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I seem to remember an interview with Starkle after Sumlin had left saying something to the fact that QB playing decisions were made without any explanations to the players and were somewhat arbitrary. That caused a lit of ill feelings towards the coaches but not between the QBs.

I think you're referring to Jake Hubenak.

infinity ag said:

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cevans_40 said:

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I am not sure there was ever a noticeable consensus that both Kyler and Kyle were not good. They both quit on their team but they both have physical gifts. Let's see how their NFL careers play out before we start proclaiming them the next coming of Joe Montana.

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"they quit on the team" is the lamest reason given to explain this. It's just something Ags on here say to make themselves feel better.

Sumlin's teams were a cluster. These guys did the right thing in their mind to make a career for themselves. It's like you work for a company that is self-destructing. Do you "stick around" or do you just look for another job? I would just look elsewhere and GTFO the company and it's dumb leaders.

I wish Kyle and Kyler the best. I wish they had done their thing at A&M.

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4 said:

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I think you're referring to Jake Hubenak.

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You are correct. My bad!

infinity ag said:

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cevans_40 said:

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I am not sure there was ever a noticeable consensus that both Kyler and Kyle were not good. They both quit on their team but they both have physical gifts. Let's see how their NFL careers play out before we start proclaiming them the next coming of Joe Montana.

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"they quit on the team" is the lamest reason given to explain this. It's just something Ags on here say to make themselves feel better.

Sumlin's teams were a cluster. These guys did the right thing in their mind to make a career for themselves. It's like you work for a company that is self-destructing. Do you "stick around" or do you just look for another job? I would just look elsewhere and GTFO the company and it's dumb leaders.

I wish Kyle and Kyler the best. I wish they had done their thing at A&M.

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I don't hold any animus toward either. I understand why they quit and don't really blame them for doing so but the fact remains that they quit. I wish they would have never signed on to begin with as recruiting was the predominant reason Sumlin was extended.

gopitt said:

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Kyle Allen is a starting NFL QB and thick headed Ags still think he's a bum. Talk about clueless fans. The kid didn't quit on A&M, Sumlin quit on him.
Called the best HS QB in the country by people who assess talent for a living. 5 star. Aggie fan base, 0 stars for assessing talent.

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Sumlin's biggest mistake was not quitting on KA earlier and going with Kyler.

DrZ said:

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He started 2 games for UH then was benched

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I wonder whatever happened to the coach that benched him?

Oh yeah, he got his ass fired the following season and now works as an analyst for Bama.

KS and the person responsible for his hiring were a cancer on the TAMU football program.

Dustin is on IR

He must be pretty dumb if saban hired him.

ebag02 said:

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He must be pretty dumb if saban hired him.

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Saban loves hiring fired head coaches because they have a lot of experience and are cheap, did the same think with Sarkisian, Kiffin, Durkin, Butch Jones, etc.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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ebag02 said:

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He must be pretty dumb if saban hired him.

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Saban loves hiring fired head coaches because they have a lot of experience and are cheap, did the same think with Sarkisian, Kiffin, Durkin, Butch Jones, etc.

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Saban always looking to pinch pennies.

It's almost like underclassmen QB's aren't usually as good as upperclassmen QB's.

It pisses me off Sumlin drove Allen away. Murray, whatever. He and his family were toxic for the locker room from the beginning. Again, on Sumlin for making stupid promises, but even if Murray had stayed there were too many heads in the room for him ever to be a good fit here.

gopitt said:

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Kyle Allen is a starting NFL QB and thick headed Ags still think he's a bum. Talk about clueless fans. The kid didn't quit on A&M, Sumlin quit on him.
Called the best HS QB in the country by people who assess talent for a living. 5 star. Aggie fan base, 0 stars for assessing talent.

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I think he has drop-back QB talent coming out of his ears.

I also think he quit one program, and flamed out at another (inexplicably, as someone said).

I thought he would absolutely kill it in the AAC. He was clearly more talented than the other QB's on the team. His game against Rice was insanely good, but then he completely wilted in the next game against Tech and never saw the field again.

It's still hard to figure. Maybe he was so smitten with Herman that Applewhite was too much of a step down for him, and he couldn't adjust.

To me, it seemed like he resented any hint that he should compete for a job. I believe I recall that, by his own admission, his first impulse was that he wanted to quit when he didn't get the nod over Kenny Hill in the first game his true fish year. I thought it was odd when I heard it.

At any rate, I wish he never would have come here. We would have been much better off if they could have just kept Hill out of the planter, and whiffed on KA.

I thought Murray was too small after his first year, but he proved me wrong. I wish Sumlin would have given him the job as a freshman, and benched Allen. I'm not a big Murray fan, but he was a much, much better college QB than Allen.

Maybe the pro-game suits him better, in part because his expectations might be different. Maybe he'll hang around and make a career.

But, considering past history, I certainly wouldn't be making bold predictions about his longevity or sustained success in any particular situation.

Hey, good luck to him.

Still don't understand why Murray and Allen get flamed. Sumlin made terrible moves and nearly screwed over both of them (KA isn't even out of the woods just yet). He got fired for this.

It's fine to state that the hate towards Sumlin is extreme here, but I really prefer not to see people defend him by flat out blaming Murray and Allen for whatever reason.

Raptor said:

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Leander - Ag said:

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TheWoodsAg said:

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In all fairness, Sumlin completely fubar'd the QB room at A&M and as a result we gave him a $15 million check for it.

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What a complete disaster KS was. Looking back it is was Fran level incompetence.

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Our highest national ranking 5th in the final AP poll in the past 25+ years. If Sumlin is guilty of all of our woes, then he gets some credit for what Sherill, RC, Fran, Sherm, and Jimbo couldn't or can't do. Not since 1956 have we been ranked 5th or higher in the AP to finish a season.

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Exactly, this huge incompetent never had a losing record, recruited NFL-level players, and left the cupboard so bare that the team went 9-4 and finished 2nd in the SEC West the year after he left.

I supported Sumlin for probably a year longer than I should have, and no doubt it was time to move on, but to imply he was incompetent or left behind a disaster, or didn't leave the program better than when he got here is idiotic.

I genuinely don't get the level of hate - I have a theory that it's mainly because of his salary, which about 0% of the people on this board paid.

Traveler said:

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Raptor said:

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Leander - Ag said:

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TheWoodsAg said:

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In all fairness, Sumlin completely fubar'd the QB room at A&M and as a result we gave him a $15 million check for it.

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What a complete disaster KS was. Looking back it is was Fran level incompetence.

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Our highest national ranking 5th in the final AP poll in the past 25+ years. If Sumlin is guilty of all of our woes, then he gets some credit for what Sherill, RC, Fran, Sherm, and Jimbo couldn't or can't do. Not since 1956 have we been ranked 5th or higher in the AP to finish a season.

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Exactly, this huge incompetent never had a losing record, recruited NFL-level players, and left the cupboard so bare that the team went 9-4 and finished 2nd in the SEC West the year after he left.

I supported Sumlin for probably a year longer than I should have, and no doubt it was time to move on, but to imply he was incompetent or left behind a disaster, or didn't leave the program better than when he got here is idiotic.

I genuinely don't get the level of hate - I have a theory that it's mainly because of his salary, which about 0% of the people on this board paid.

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Excellent post, in response to an excellent post.

I like to call this little diddy "Ten Stars (They Gone)"

OKC~Ag said:

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Wow, what an epic dissonant moments for Texags zoo citizens...

who do we root for?

i guess, just cursing sumlin is the best move

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That's an easy one. I don't watch pro football.

NathanChristie said:

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Kyle and Kyler quit just like any of you would quit a job in a toxic environment. They transferred even though either of them could very well have been the QB1 the following year at A&M. That should tell you something.

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"Toxic"?

Please elaborate.

I've heard it said that Sumlin was inattentive and didn't communicate well.

I've heard it said that he played Allen when he was hurt (though, without starting the argument all over again, that can be viewed in different ways).

I've heard he made promises to Murray that couldn't be kept, though, again, it seems mostly speculative and unclear exactly what was promised.

None of these things seem positive, but "toxic" is a pretty strong word.

Was Sumlin verbally abusing them? Ridiculing them? Blatantly lying to them on a regular basis? None of that seems like Sumlin's style.

Was it toxic because they didn't like each other? Did teammates mistreat them?

To me, it seems like they both had pretty big egos, and utterly resented each other, and utterly resented him for even considering the other guy. Is there anything to that?

And, as far as Sumlin, his failures are well documented. I leave you with this

I suggest all the speculators and lurkers on this thread read Hubenak's article again. I see terrible communication between the coaching staff and the QB room leading to both 5 stars transferring.


https://texags.com/s/28049/qb-chaos-an-inside-account-of-the-tumultuous-2015-texas-am-season

hunter2012 said:

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I suggest all the speculators and lurkers on this thread read Hubenak's article again. I see terrible communication between the coaching staff and the QB room leading to both 5 stars transferring.


https://texags.com/s/28049/qb-chaos-an-inside-account-of-the-tumultuous-2015-texas-am-season

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especially threadbare

hunter2012 said:

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I suggest all the speculators and lurkers on this thread read Hubenak's article again. I see terrible communication between the coaching staff and the QB room leading to both 5 stars transferring.


https://texags.com/s/28049/qb-chaos-an-inside-account-of-the-tumultuous-2015-texas-am-season

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I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder (and I read this when it came out).

It looks like Sumlin made some mistakes with two guys with distinct prima donna tendencies. Frankly, I don't see any atrocities that rise to the level of outrage in your link, for all of Hubenak's hyperventilating.

Sumlin didn't handle it right (obviously, from the result), but these were two guys who absolutely expected to be treated like 5 stars all the time, and I think they despised each other. That probably played into some of the weirdness going on in the locker room as well.

If one them really told a coach to jump in the lake (sanitized for family reading) and refused to go in the game (again, if that's wrong, I'd like to know it), that is staggeringly arrogant from a college kid to the coach. If true, that player should have been off the team then.

Other than Hubenak's tell all (if it can even be called that), my distinct impression is that none of the rest of the team were missing either guy too much after they bolted. If I'm wrong about that, feel free to set the record straight.

I think Applewhite found out the same thing. It's not any secret that Allen spent a big part of that year at UH standing around on the sidelines by himself after he was benched in the third game. Make of it what you will; that's what happened. Maybe he checked out early. If so, that's not checking out on Applewhite; that's checking out on the team.

I haven't heard much negative about Sumlin from guys I respect a whole lot more.

But, I guess they should just both be glad they never played for Mark Mangino or Mike Leach.

cevans_40 said:

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I am not sure there was ever a noticeable consensus that both Kyler and Kyle were not good. They both quit on their team but they both have physical gifts.

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I think KA quit on his coach because his coach quit on him.

RAB83 said:

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cevans_40 said:

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I am not sure there was ever a noticeable consensus that both Kyler and Kyle were not good. They both quit on their team but they both have physical gifts.

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I think KA quit on his coach because his coach quit on him.

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Uh, technically I think we can pretty clearly state that KA quit on his coach. The other part is a lot more subjective.

Also, does anyone doubt that the starting job was his if he would have come back with Murray gone?

Threadbare said:

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If one them really told a coach to jump in the lake (sanitized for family reading) and refused to go in the game (again, if that's wrong, I'd like to know it), that is staggeringly arrogant from a college kid to the coach. If true, that player should have been off the team then.

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I completely agree. At the time he was in Spav's face on national TV, I think he should have been sent to the locker room and suspended for the rest of the season.

Sending him home by private transportation would have changed the trajectory of the program and the coach. At the very least, he should have been benched and left to play QB for the scout team.

Of course, I'm Old Army and old school. Highway 6 does run both ways.