I'm not making excuses for anyone or advocating for harm, just fyi. I'm simply pointing out what people who are anti cyclists are going to think about all of the things that the previous posters group does.

He 100% deserves repercussions for his actions, but I'm not sure on the severity.

We all did stupid crap in high school - his was worse (at least compared to me), but if he's generally a good kid who got caught up showing off…. I have a different opinion than if he's generally a turd that needs some serious re-alignment.

CDUB98 said:

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Oh, I want maximum charges possible against him.

However, he will likely be put through the juvenile system and it will all be gone by the time he is 18.

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yes, I see all the bike groups demanding "justice"

but the driver is 16 years old and no one was killed.

they should lower expectations for what the criminal justice system is going to do

I really enjoy cycling but now I simply jog around my neighborhood. I've had trucks in Waller do that to me several times. I finally gave it up because it's clear you can't get away from jerks no matter where you ride.

htxag09 said:

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CoachRTM said:

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He 100% deserves repercussions for his actions, but I'm not sure on the severity.

We all did stupid crap in high school - his was worse (at least compared to me), but if he's generally a good kid who got caught up showing off…. I have a different opinion than if he's generally a turd that needs some serious re-alignment.

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This is absolute bull***** Where do we draw the line on kids will be kids? And what does this show as an example to other/future kids? It's by the grace of God that people aren't dead because of this asshat. But we want to slap him on the wrist and say "no, no Jr."

Actions have repercussions. It doesn't matter if you're a kid, it doesn't matter that you're behind a car and it's an "accident."

And outside the health/danger aspect of it. Take a minute to think about these individuals. They were training for IMTX. They are presumably like me that they've spent 20+ hours a week for the last two years training to be prepared for this race. This kid took that away from them in a matter of seconds. And that impacts far more than the 6 he ran over. Injuries not requiring hospitalization, like just falling off your bike in a ditch because someone in front of you got ran over, could keep you out of this race. Damage to your bike the same.

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All I said is that the repercussions should be adjusted based on the rest of his history - I didn't say that he should avoid punishment.

I understand that this is a cycling thread, so the opinions here are mostly that of (understandably) emotional cyclists, but at least read what I wrote.

CDUB98 said:

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David_Puddy said:

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Huh?

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What do you mean huh?

You were one of the bigger anti-cyclist doooooshbags on here for while, IIRC.

I'm just a bit in shock.

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You must have me confused with someone else there bub. Either that or the stick is so far up your ass that you can't think straight.

I know a guy from my high school that was generally a good kid. He made a mistake far worse than this one - he drove drunk and got in an accident that killed someone when he was 17 or 18 years old.

He served some time in jail (not as much as you probably think) and had a massive probationary period, but to the outside world, they probably saw that as not punitive enough. He couldn't drink through college, so what?

What they didn't see is that this kid ws haunted by this from the moment it happened. He really was a good kid that made about as bad of a mistake as you can… but if we're all being honest, I'm sure most of us could point to a time in our lives that we probably shouldn't have gotten behind the wheel.

The family of the deceased person really took the time to understand the kid and get to know him, and were his biggest supporters by the end of the trial - they still have a relationship to this day.



I'm not trying to compare that situation to this one, simply saying that there is a grey area that needs to be taken into account. I have no idea who this kid is, but I understand the police taking time to talk to friends/family to understand him before choosing what charges to press.

txags92 said:

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W said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Oh, I want maximum charges possible against him.

However, he will likely be put through the juvenile system and it will all be gone by the time he is 18.

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yes, I see all the bike groups demanding "justice"

but the driver is 16 years old and no one was killed.

they should lower expectations for what the criminal justice system is going to do

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The fact that nobody died had more to do with luck or divine providence than any lack of severity of the teen's actions. I don't see the lack of a death as mitigating the seriousness of the assault he committed at all. His conduct was deadly in accordance with the Texas Penal code, and he should be punished for it accordingly.

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I don't disagree with your stance at all but realistically the penal system will not come down hard on a juvenile in a case like this. What should happen and what will likely happen are wildly divergent.

That being said, I can expect the civil remedies to sue the **** out of this kid and his parents.

chico said:

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"I understand the police taking time to talk to friends/family to understand him before choosing what charges to press"

That's not the police officers' job. They have a DA in the county.

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You're right, DA. I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to the law/ police and don't mean to come across like I do.

txags92 said:

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CoachRTM said:

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I know a guy from my high school that was generally a good kid. He made a mistake far worse than this one - he drove drunk and got in an accident that killed someone when he was 17 or 18 years old.

He served some time in jail (not as much as you probably think) and had a massive probationary period, but to the outside world, they probably saw that as not punitive enough. He couldn't drink through college, so what?

What they didn't see is that this kid ws haunted by this from the moment it happened. He really was a good kid that made about as bad of a mistake as you can… but if we're all being honest, I'm sure most of us could point to a time in our lives that we probably shouldn't have gotten behind the wheel.

The family of the deceased person really took the time to understand the kid and get to know him, and were his biggest supporters by the end of the trial - they still have a relationship to this day.



I'm not trying to compare that situation to this one, simply saying that there is a grey area that needs to be taken into account. I have no idea who this kid is, but I understand the police taking time to talk to friends/family to understand him before choosing what charges to press.

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That case has two differences from this that I can see right away, and I think they are both important. 1) Presumably the drunk kid either killed a friend riding with him, or a stranger that he never targeted or had any intention to act aggressively toward. 2) The activity that resulted in the accident was drinking and driving, which is not in itself violent or aggressive towards others (even if it is stupid and predictably led to an accident). In this case, the kid picked out a group of people who he had presumably been taught not to like, and he went after them (reportedly more than once) to aggressively harass and/or assault them depending on how you view it. The method he used to do it was dangerous and reckless. And he severely injured several people in the course of all of that. I am not heartless about it, and realize he may actually have a lot of remorse now, but what does his remorse now do to prevent every other redneck in Waller county from thinking it is ok to do this in the future, if he gets a slap on the wrist?

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Agreed. The cases aren't that similar, and like I said, I don't mean to compare the two.

That being said, if the guy I knew had a history of drinking and driving, or any other criminal activity in his past, I think really severe punishment would have been warranted. Since he didn't, it seems like the "lesser" punishment fit his case.

That's all I was trying to say from the beginning. This "coal roller" did something stupid and dangerous and deserves punishment. I just think that his prior history should be taken into account.

And to the person who thinks that if he gets a slap on the wrist then it'll be open season in Waller county, I disagree with you - his family is going to be sued into bankruptcy I would imagine.

I have not seen any reason why the driver lost control. I am betting the kid was playing with his phone so he could video his coal rolling. Be real interested to see what a search of his phone turns up.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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I have not seen any reason why the driver lost control. I am betting the kid was playing with his phone so he could video his coal rolling. Be real interested to see what a search of his phone turns up.

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We know he wasn't detained at the scene. Rumors are that he (or parents) drove the truck home, rather than police towing it to the police compound to search thoroughly. It doesn't take much cynicism to think any evidence would be long gone by now (GoPro in the truck? Iphone video like you're suggesting? Discarded whiskey bottle under the seat?)

htxag09 said:

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CoachRTM said:

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He 100% deserves repercussions for his actions, but I'm not sure on the severity.

We all did stupid crap in high school - his was worse (at least compared to me), but if he's generally a good kid who got caught up showing off…. I have a different opinion than if he's generally a turd that needs some serious re-alignment.

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This is absolute bull***** Where do we draw the line on kids will be kids?

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This board will have a completely different answer for that than premium would if it involved a football player. The deification of recruits and players is wild.

chimpanzee said:

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Take an expensive niche hobby, add in a minor inconvenience (or perception thereof) to others not involved, add in a dash of additional "otherness" in appearance (think leotard caricatures) and you have a recipe for seeing this person as a detestable subhuman.

Give enough pickling in internet vitriol and someone will go off half cocked and hurt someone else.

You can do that with race, class, political party, vax status, whatever...

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This is a perfect description of what happens. Everything is set up to dehumanize others these days. From the highest political office to a random persons tweet, about anything, leads to that outcome. Good post chimpanzee, albeit sad and disheartening.

Sea Speed said:

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chimpanzee said:

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Take an expensive niche hobby, add in a minor inconvenience (or perception thereof) to others not involved, add in a dash of additional "otherness" in appearance (think leotard caricatures) and you have a recipe for seeing this person as a detestable subhuman.

Give enough pickling in internet vitriol and someone will go off half cocked and hurt someone else.

You can do that with race, class, political party, vax status, whatever...

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This is a perfect description of what happens. Everything is set up to dehumanize others these days. From the highest political office to a random persons tweet, about anything, leads to that outcome. Good post chimpanzee, albeit sad and disheartening.

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Yep. Dehumanization was that exact word that went through my mind too when I read that. If you can ridicule and attack a group until you get to the point that people don't see them as human or on the same level as the rest of society, then it is a short step to somebody thinking it is ok to attack them. That is why I think it is important to send a message with the prosecution of this kid. I know he is a juvenile and we should take some of his history or lack thereof into account, but a slap on the wrist or simply probation would reinforce the message that hurting cyclists is not a big deal...

CDUB98 said:

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Milwaukees Best Light said:

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I have not seen any reason why the driver lost control. I am betting the kid was playing with his phone so he could video his coal rolling. Be real interested to see what a search of his phone turns up.

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Pure speculation on my part, but I don't think he lost control.

I'm guessing he was looking in a rear view mirror to laugh at his dooooshbaggery work and drifted over to the right into the next group, OR, didn't drift, but because of same rear view looking, he did not see the next group.

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This is why Aggie jokes are made. Paragraph 1 'he didn't lose control of his vehicle'.

Paragraph 2 then speculate how the driver didn't have control of his vehicle.

We have differing definitions of losing control, obviously.

For me, losing control means you cannot get it back and the loss is involuntary.

hth

CDUB98 said:

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We have differing definitions of losing control, obviously.

For me, losing control means you cannot get it back and the loss is involuntary.

hth

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Ok… well. It's a bad definition. Even distracted drivers don't voluntarily lose control of their vehicle and I'll go out on a limb and say hitting 6 people on a bike (not just 1 or 2) is pretty strong definition that homeboy didn't have control of his truck for whatever the hell reason.

Sea Speed said:

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chimpanzee said:

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Take an expensive niche hobby, add in a minor inconvenience (or perception thereof) to others not involved, add in a dash of additional "otherness" in appearance (think leotard caricatures) and you have a recipe for seeing this person as a detestable subhuman.

Give enough pickling in internet vitriol and someone will go off half cocked and hurt someone else.

You can do that with race, class, political party, vax status, whatever...

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This is a perfect description of what happens. Everything is set up to dehumanize others these days. From the highest political office to a random persons tweet, about anything, leads to that outcome. Good post chimpanzee, albeit sad and disheartening.

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The sad thing is everyone experiences this in some sort of fashion, so should understand others and emphasize a little more. I'd say almost every person has a hobby or interest that someone else views as excessive and unnecessary, though some are definitely under more scrutiny from the public and politicians.

now in the Washington Post
Washington Post article

Statement from BikeLaw, the law firm representing the cyclists run over. Lots of information in here.
BikeLaw Press Release

Tangentially related, a father of a child in my daughters class who was training for IMTX passed away suddenly from a brain aneurysm over the weekend I believe. Just terrible. If any of yall know this person from training, please let them know my wife and I are ready and willing to help out because we obviously live in the same area.

Another kids mom died last week from cancer. I wish I could do anything and everything for those parents and help with their world that has been turned upside down.

chico said:

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Statement from BikeLaw, the law firm representing the cyclists run over. Lots of information in here.
BikeLaw Press Release

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I read that this morning.

Lots of over the top writing that wasn't necessary.

They are trying to be too sensationalist rather than just stating the facts.