Phatbob said:Quote:
Do you want him to fix the border and address immigration or not?
It's that simple…
Yes. Cut spending somewhere to finance it. Should be simple enough, or is DOGE just a shell game? What's the point of it if it isn't going to cut spending?
The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
FireAg said:Who?mikejones! said:
Lol. What a false choice
It's okay to say you are for Trump's agenda no matter what or you're not…
Zero issue with that…
What is dishonest is to say you are for it 'with caveats'…
Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Who?mikejones! said:FireAg said:Who?mikejones! said:
Lol. What a false choice
It's okay to say you are for Trump's agenda no matter what or you're not…
Zero issue with that…
What is dishonest is to say you are for it 'with caveats'…
No reasonable educated adult is either 100% for or against any politicians agenda. That's absurd. I'm not a member of a cult, I'm not required to agree with stupid ideas.
FireAg said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Do you want him to implement his agenda or not?
Or, do you want things to stay status quo for the next 4 years and nothing be done to fix the borders/immigration?
Y'all are fighting this at sea level and failing to see the big picture…
FireAg said:Dan Scott said:
Also unwise to believe a politician is going to cut spending…
You continue to miss the point…
He can't cut spending AND implement his agenda…
He needs the financial room to implement his agenda and then Congress needs to cut spending in March…
Will they? Look, it's fair to believe they won't…. I have zero issue with that stance…precedent supports that stance…
But then it stands to reason that they will never cut spending no matter what, and if that's the case, and you don't give Trump the fiscal room necessary to implement his agenda, then his campaign promises, and presidency in general, are already DOA…
Dan Scott said:FireAg said:Dan Scott said:
Also unwise to believe a politician is going to cut spending…
You continue to miss the point…
He can't cut spending AND implement his agenda…
He needs the financial room to implement his agenda and then Congress needs to cut spending in March…
Will they? Look, it's fair to believe they won't…. I have zero issue with that stance…precedent supports that stance…
But then it stands to reason that they will never cut spending no matter what, and if that's the case, and you don't give Trump the fiscal room necessary to implement his agenda, then his campaign promises, and presidency in general, are already DOA…
Pretty much. He'll get a tax cut extension. That's pretty much it is my guess. He received less than half of the total votes and lost a house seat. There is no mandate. There will not be sweeping spending cuts.
To get sweeping spending cuts, there needs to be structural reforms. Nobody is talking about that or campaigning on that .
You're failing to see that this IS the status quo. You voted for a fiscal liberal, and that, along with the social liberalism of the left, has gotten us into a bad spot economically. It cannot be fixed by financing it with more debt. You are falling for the trap of the big government "fix", that all they need to do is just have a little more money (what's a few Trillion between friends).FireAg said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Do you want him to implement his agenda or not?
Or, do you want things to stay status quo for the next 4 years and nothing be done to fix the borders/immigration?
Y'all are fighting this at sea level and failing to see the big picture…
FireAg said:Who?mikejones! said:
Yeah, I know. I'm saying shut it down until the new congress is sat and then put a clean bill put there and let the dems shoot ot down
And all of that is fine as long as you accept that it handcuffs the Trump agenda to fix the things (like immigration) that he was elected to fix…
You can't have it both ways…
Now, if you say you are only for fixing the border/immigration "as long as" it doesn't increase the debt, then that is a fair thing to say…that needs to be your stance…
It's ideological, and not realistic, but if that's your stance, then it is at least honest…
FireAg said:
No, they really aren't…
The things he wants to do to move swiftly and reverse the tides are going to be expensive…
Phatbob said:You're failing to see that this IS the status quo. You voted for a fiscal liberal, and that, along with the social liberalism, has gotten us into a bad spot economically. It cannot be fixed by financing it with more debt. You are falling for the trap of the big government "fix", that all they need to do is just have a little more money (what's a few Trillion between friends).FireAg said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Do you want him to implement his agenda or not?
Or, do you want things to stay status quo for the next 4 years and nothing be done to fix the borders/immigration?
Y'all are fighting this at sea level and failing to see the big picture…
No. Just No.
Logos Stick said:FireAg said:
No, they really aren't…
The things he wants to do to move swiftly and reverse the tides are going to be expensive…
Yes, the next Dem will ignore and undo anything he does.
It's not going to be expensive. Mexico can stop the immigration completely if they want to . And they will because if they don't Trump will put tariffs in place to kill their economy.
We will have closed borders only as long as we have an R in the WH.
Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Logos Stick said:FireAg said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Do you want him to implement his agenda or not?
Or, do you want things to stay status quo for the next 4 years and nothing be done to fix the borders/immigration?
Y'all are fighting this at sea level and failing to see the big picture…
The border/immigration will never be "fixed". Whatever Trump does is a stop gap. He can do that regardless of what happens with this CR. Those are mutually exclusive.
Exactly. Trump is way off his rocker wanting the debt ceiling increased by a ridiculous amount.Phatbob said:Quote:
Do you want him to fix the border and address immigration or not?
It's that simple…
Yes. Cut spending somewhere to finance it. Should be simple enough, or is DOGE just a shell game? What's the point of it if it isn't going to cut spending?
YouBet said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
I'll say this again. There is no debt ceiling when we blow right past it every single time with yet more spending.
It's a facade that only serves for getting R's to capitulate to D's on spending because it's actually a government shutdown issue. Nothing to do with debt in reality.
Why? Because neither party is ever going to cut spending. Ever.
So Trump simply wants it removed because it's one less thing that D's can hold over the R's head.
Trump is recognizing that reality and just wants it out of the way so he can work his agenda.
That's all this. Once you accept that spending is not getting cut then you can see this for what it is.
FireAg said:Logos Stick said:FireAg said:
No, they really aren't…
The things he wants to do to move swiftly and reverse the tides are going to be expensive…
Yes, the next Dem will ignore and undo anything he does.
It's not going to be expensive. Mexico can stop the immigration completely if they want to . And they will because if they don't Trump will put tariffs in place to kill their economy.
We will have closed borders only as long as we have an R in the WH.
So short-sighted…
Your process doesn't address the millions he's trying to deport back home…
And there are a lot of Ds who are now saying that immigration must be addressed because their open border policy was a failure…
I'm not so sure they will just cancel it all if Trump puts real fixes in place…
Logos Stick said:FireAg said:Logos Stick said:FireAg said:
No, they really aren't…
The things he wants to do to move swiftly and reverse the tides are going to be expensive…
Yes, the next Dem will ignore and undo anything he does.
It's not going to be expensive. Mexico can stop the immigration completely if they want to . And they will because if they don't Trump will put tariffs in place to kill their economy.
We will have closed borders only as long as we have an R in the WH.
So short-sighted…
Your process doesn't address the millions he's trying to deport back home…
And there are a lot of Ds who are now saying that immigration must be addressed because their open border policy was a failure…
I'm not so sure they will just cancel it all if Trump puts real fixes in place…
He can pay for deportations in a reconciliation bill. That is mutually exclusive of this CR. He can also redirect the saved money from all the bureaucrats he will fire.
YouBet said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
I'll say this again. There is no debt ceiling when we blow right past it every single time with yet more spending.
It's a facade that only serves for getting R's to capitulate to D's on spending because it's actually a government shutdown issue. Nothing to do with debt in reality.
Why? Because neither party is ever going to cut spending. Ever.
So Trump simply wants it removed because it's one less thing that D's can hold over the R's head.
Trump is recognizing that reality and just wants it out of the way so he can work his agenda.
That's all this. Once you accept that spending is not getting cut then you can see this for what it is.
I don't think you get it. The amount that is spent is a bigger issue. You think the problems are immigration and who is in charge of spending the money? Those are childs play compared to what an 8 Trillion dollar budget does to government overreach and corruption. The issues you want Trump to deal with are emergent properties of an out of control federal government - they are just symptoms of the problem, not stand alone issues. You are trying to give ibuprofen to a diabetic instead of cutting off the sugar.FireAg said:Phatbob said:You're failing to see that this IS the status quo. You voted for a fiscal liberal, and that, along with the social liberalism, has gotten us into a bad spot economically. It cannot be fixed by financing it with more debt. You are falling for the trap of the big government "fix", that all they need to do is just have a little more money (what's a few Trillion between friends).FireAg said:Phatbob said:The FACT is that no matter what they do, the debt limit will be in place. The FACT is that Trump and Democrats want it gone so they have no fiscal roadbumps for insane spending. There is no dishonesty in that tweet. There is only attempted cover for fiscal irresponsibility from the apologists here.FireAg said:Daddy-O5 said:Congress failed again in its responsibility to fund the government on time.
— Rep. Keith Self (@RepKeithSelf) December 19, 2024
While the most egregious items were taken out of the original CR, I cannot support the negotiated deal that raises the debt by $4 trillion rather than making the cuts necessary to rein in government…
Absolutely dishonest tweet…
He's using talking points and not facts…
Again…there is nothing to raise until Jan 1…
Do you want him to implement his agenda or not?
Or, do you want things to stay status quo for the next 4 years and nothing be done to fix the borders/immigration?
Y'all are fighting this at sea level and failing to see the big picture…
No. Just No.
Gotcha…
See you in 4 years when nothing has changed and we elect another D to make things even worse…
taxpreparer said:
This thread is getting repetitive. Several posters sound like "broken records." For those of you too young to have listened to vinyl records, it means you have a scratch that causes the turntable's needle to skip and continously repeat a section of the recording.
No matter how often you repeat your arguement, the other side is not going to buy it. Try a different tact.
I agree, they need to be lockstep against what the Democrats want - which is getting rid of the debt ceiling.Philip J Fry said:
Republicans need to get in ****ing line. You don't see this kind of utter disfunction on the Democrat side. The GOP continues to shoot itself in the foot anytime something like this comes up. The fact that they nearly got a Democrat elected as SPOH even though they had the majority is really telling. I'm fine with Trump going after any republican who chooses not to play with the team.
Way over his head.FireAg said:
What farm?
Again, as of right now, THERE IS NO DEBT CEILING FARM to give up…
It already doesn't exist…this debt ceiling thing is a mirage…until you accept that fact, your ideological stance sounds good, but it has no merit…
