Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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So Trump wants to cut some insignificant agency stuff but is ok with record spending passed by Congress

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Yes, he's 100% okay with it. Trump is a spender and that won't change.

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Musk and Vivek haven't gotten the word obviously.

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Again, they don't call the shots. And Trump will drop them like a bad habit if they want to try and butt heads with him.

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Again, a strawman. If they were as in tune as you think you are, there would be no benefit to publicly criticize Trump here.

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Then fine, be prepared to stomp around angrily after it's passed with Trump not attempting to stop it.

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He has no power.

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He has the power to influence Johnson to take a different course. He won't.

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Your anti-Trump bias is clouding your view of reality.
Congress controls the budget. Any Executive influence is just that, influence at best and nothing at worst.
Yes, Trump spent like a big gov liberal his first term mainly due to his fourth year where certain people enabled the situation (cough cough).
No, Trump is not leading off with the same big spending advocacy as shown by his DOGE appointments and anti-establishment mandate the people for the most part voted for.
Assuming Trump is giving the wink to Johnson to do this and Johnson is only doing this because of said wink is disingenuous or completely false.

The CR issue lands squarely at the feet of Johnson and RINO's yet you keep trying to drive a wedge in conservatives by saying Trump wants it therefore we should suck it up since we want Trump. No matter how much you hide behind the "Trump started Ukraine funding" or "spent big during Covid" or whatever other strawman you throw out there.

HTH.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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So Trump wants to cut some insignificant agency stuff but is ok with record spending passed by Congress

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Yes, he's 100% okay with it. Trump is a spender and that won't change.

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Musk and Vivek haven't gotten the word obviously.

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Again, they don't call the shots. And Trump will drop them like a bad habit if they want to try and butt heads with him.

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Again, a strawman. If they were as in tune as you think you are, there would be no benefit to publicly criticize Trump here.

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Then fine, be prepared to stomp around angrily after it's passed with Trump not attempting to stop it.

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He has no power.

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He has the power to influence Johnson to take a different course. He won't.

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Describe these powers and influence that Trump has right now..

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The same ones he had when he had Johnson approve Ukraine aid. Johnson doesn't take a piss without Trump's approval.

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Your anti-Trump bias is clouding your view of reality.

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lolwut, I'm pro-Trump.

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Assuming Trump is giving the wink to Johnson to do this and Johnson is only doing this because of said wink is disingenuous or completely false.

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Except he's literally done so THIS YEAR with Ukraine/Israel aid.

Teslag said:

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Assuming Trump is giving the wink to Johnson to do this and Johnson is only doing this because of said wink is disingenuous or completely false.

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Except he's literally done so THIS YEAR with Ukraine/Israel aid.

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People are just starting to deal with the dissonance between what they assumed about Trump (which has never been evidenced by anything in his 1st term) and what will actually happen. We will get a lot of the same in the next 4 years, and not the wrecking house that a lot of people were expecting.

I think Trump will focus a lot of his energy on the executive agencies, and he should. That's where a lot of work needs to be done in tearing down the bureaucracy. But Trump has never shown a ton of interest in legislative fights and largely defers it to his leadership in those houses.

And Trump is a steadfast loyalist. He's loyal to those that are loyal to him and Johnson has been from day 1. Trump demands loyalty above all else, even tea party conservative litmus tests.

Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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So Trump wants to cut some insignificant agency stuff but is ok with record spending passed by Congress

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Yes, he's 100% okay with it. Trump is a spender and that won't change.

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Musk and Vivek haven't gotten the word obviously.

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Again, they don't call the shots. And Trump will drop them like a bad habit if they want to try and butt heads with him.

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Again, a strawman. If they were as in tune as you think you are, there would be no benefit to publicly criticize Trump here.

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Then fine, be prepared to stomp around angrily after it's passed with Trump not attempting to stop it.

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He has no power.

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He has the power to influence Johnson to take a different course. He won't.

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Describe these powers and influence that Trump has right now..

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The same ones he had when he had Johnson approve Ukraine aid. Johnson doesn't take a piss without Trump's approval.

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You didn't answer the question. Try again and be descriptive.

Trump has zero power at this point, but he does have influence. My guess is that he would prefer to start his administration with a clean slate, and not have a shutdown hanging over his head.

I imagine he is thinking that whatever may get passed in this spending bill will get cut anyway through future recommendations from Elon and Vivek. They may not be elected, but they have the attention and respect of the American public, and they have a huge platform to communicate to them and bypass the legacy media narratives. Whatever they recommend will have a powerful influence on politicians in DC of both parties. I get the feeling this isn't going to be the same old DC song and dance with this administration.

It will be like the old EF Hutton commercials. When Elon/Vivek speak, people listen. And after the mandate of this past election, their recommendations are going to be hard for politcians to deny.

Teslag said:

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Assuming Trump is giving the wink to Johnson to do this and Johnson is only doing this because of said wink is disingenuous or completely false.

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Except he's literally done so THIS YEAR with Ukraine/Israel aid.

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With a commitment to end the war. Your analysis is getting weaker.

Logos Stick said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Republicans haven't assumed sufficient power yet. This buys time to get the necessary personnel in place in FedGov and Trump in office and to clear out some obstructions. Necessary evil.

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They have all the power they need to vote no and shut the government down. The election is over.

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And there is no better time to shut down the government than just after an election.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Assuming Trump is giving the wink to Johnson to do this and Johnson is only doing this because of said wink is disingenuous or completely false.

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Except he's literally done so THIS YEAR with Ukraine/Israel aid.

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With a commitment to end the war. Your analysis is getting weaker.

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Ending the war can mean a lot of things.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Teslag said:

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Johnson doesn't do anything without Trump's blessing. The idea that he is part of the swamp is laughable.

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The bill speaks for itself. And this is not a Trump thread.

Johnson is just one of the same. He's little better than Dade Phelan. Republicans continue to get fleeced by the people they vote into power.

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It's not a Trump thread but as the defacto head of the party in power, and someone who has influence over a loyalist speaker, he's heavily involved.

Teslag said:

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I think Trump will focus a lot of his energy on the executive agencies, and he should. That's where a lot of work needs to be done in tearing down the bureaucracy.

But Trump has never shown a ton of interest in legislative fights and largely defers it to his leadership in those houses.

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Really?! Trump oversaw the longest government shutdown in American history. And had two shutdowns, more than any other president except Reagan

You mean the one that ended after Trump allowed for a stop gap CR to punt the fight later?

Sounds familiar...

Teslag said:

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You mean the one that ended after Trump allowed for a stop gap CR to punt the fight later?

Sounds familiar...

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That doesn't prove your assertion. The fight that you say he has no interest in lasted 35 DAYS, longer than any fight in history. But yet he has shown no interest in legislative fights per you. LOLOL /eye roll

eta: also, please stop starring your own posts!

Where did I say he has "never" shown an interest at all? We at the point where just make quotes up now?

Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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So Trump wants to cut some insignificant agency stuff but is ok with record spending passed by Congress

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Yes, he's 100% okay with it. Trump is a spender and that won't change.

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Musk and Vivek haven't gotten the word obviously.

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Again, they don't call the shots. And Trump will drop them like a bad habit if they want to try and butt heads with him.

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Tell us about your accuracy navigating Covid and the vaccines.

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100% accurate. Wasn't wrong about a single thing.

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Now it makes sense.

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I think this is the part where you invent positions I had that I never had.

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You're the one that ratted out others for not taking the vaccine, right?

All this seems to be pre-supposing that the GOP-E listens much to Trump. They certainly didn't listen to him or their voters in 2017-2018. Maybe various podcasters will get him to speak up on it yay, or nay, and clarify his stance. If he does have influence, learn where it leans.

Voters should adopt the write-in and threaten to primary approach doing to excess static about cabinet positions.

No more ominbus unread bills dumping expenses on the public unless accompanied by Congressional pay and pension cuts.

Hungry Ojos said:

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Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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So Trump wants to cut some insignificant agency stuff but is ok with record spending passed by Congress

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Yes, he's 100% okay with it. Trump is a spender and that won't change.

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Musk and Vivek haven't gotten the word obviously.

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Again, they don't call the shots. And Trump will drop them like a bad habit if they want to try and butt heads with him.

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Tell us about your accuracy navigating Covid and the vaccines.

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100% accurate. Wasn't wrong about a single thing.

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Now it makes sense.

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I think this is the part where you invent positions I had that I never had.

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You're the one that ratted out others for not taking the vaccine, right?

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Incorrect.

Teslag said:

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Where did I say he has "never" shown an interest? We at the point where just make quotes up now?

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Oh sorry, "Trump has never shown a ton of interest".

Yes, other than the fact that he carried out the longest shutdown in UNITED STATES HISTORY.... you are correct!

titan said:

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All this seems to be pre-supposing that the GOP-E listens much to Trump. They certainly didn't listen to him or their voters in 2017-2018. Maybe various podcasters will get him to speak up on it yay, or nay, and clarify his stance. If he does have influence, learn where it leans.

Voters should adopt the write-in and threaten to primary approach doing to excess static about cabinet positions.

No more ominbus unread bills dumping expenses on the public unless accompanied by Congressional pay and pension cuts.

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Is Johnson really "establishment"? The guy has only been in politics since 2015, and only a member of the house since 2017. He had a fairly apolitical life prior to that.

Did they add another Congressional pay raise in this bill??????


I think everyone already knows the answer........

Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Where did I say he has "never" shown an interest? We at the point where just make quotes up now?

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Oh sorry, "Trump has never shown a ton of interest".

Yes, other than the fact that he carried out the longest shutdown in UNITED STATES HISTORY.... you are correct!

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Yes, a whopping 35 days out of his 1,461 day presidency.

Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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Where did I say he has "never" shown an interest? We at the point where just make quotes up now?

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Oh sorry, "Trump has never shown a ton of interest".

Yes, other than the fact that he carried out the longest shutdown in UNITED STATES HISTORY.... you are correct!

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Yes, a whopping 35 days out of his 1,461 day presidency.

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Compared to other shutdowns, it was substantial and enough to refute your silly claim.

Yep, he showed interest in a legislative fight for 2% of his presidency. I stand by what I said.

Like I said, you're free to believe whatever you want. But when it happens exactly as I'm telling you it will happen feel free to stomp around and be mad when Johnson continues to receive Trump's praise and endorsement as speaker.

Teslag said:

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Yep, he showed interest in a legislative fight for 2% of his presidency. I stand by what I said.

Like I said, you're free to believe whatever you want. But when it happens exactly as I'm telling you it will happen feel free to stomp around and be mad when Johnson continues to receive Trump's praise and endorsement as speaker.

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Comments like this are where it's perplexing your stance on the issue.

Several posters are complaining about the CR's and any support they have, whether from Trump or others, and you are sticking your finger in their eye and saying you support Trump. And you say he doesnt get involved in legislation fights in one breath then say he's telling Johnson to go with CR's....

It comes across as you supporting the CR's, plus the establishment tactics, and defend the supposed aspects of Trump that conservatives are complaining about. I get your point on several aspects but it seems to be coming from conflicting directions which is very confusing to understand when framing your point of view.

I think it's more that I care about arguing from a position of accuracy instead of emotional response. I don't like excessive government. I don't like CR's and would prefer them to just pass a real budget. But even though I like those ideals it doesn't mean I have to invent falsehoods or narratives in order for me to cope with why it's not happening. Trump spends. He likes to spends. He likes to make deals. He's not a small government tea party conservative like I'd prefer him to be. No one is perfect, but I'm still happy he's president. Those are realities. Johnson also isn't a RINO or establishment or any of that nonsense just because he's passing a CR. He's just a trump loyalist threading the needle before January 20th. He will remain loyal to Trump and do what he wants because it's his ticket to remaining speaker. He knows by doing so the rest of the house will fall in line because they fear Trump's wrath as well. And should. Trump has a mandate.

But people on this thread are complaining about a government issue and you are telling them to stop complaining. Because Trump supposedly supports the CR's and Johnson supposedly is only doing this because Trump wants him to.

You are leaving zero wiggle room for Johnson to be in favor of not creating a budget thus taking the easy way out with CR's, like all his establishment predecessers have done. And you are ignoring the DOGE aspect which is completely different from the last term. That is not a position of accuracy and has hints of an emotional aspect not in the words chosen but rather in the parts ignored.

Essentially you are indirectly advocating for the status quo by telling people to stop complaining and deal with it rather than try for doing the right thing, which comes across as very much in favor of CR's and the big gov status quo, whether intended or not hence the confusion of your actual policy positions. Johnson could abandon the CR's if more people complained. He almost certainly will not if there is public apathy driven by people telling them to stop complaining and deal with it.

Your point is likely right regarding CR's and Trump not calling Johnson out on it, but you are jumping to a lot of what I believe to be incorrect assumptions to justify your conclusion.

Where were you during the last government shutdown?

No one remembers.

I think 80% functions on autopilot, so there's hardly any impact.

If DOGE is serious about cutting bureaucracy, it seems like shutting down 20% of the government would be a good way to demonstrate reducing government is no big deal.

Tea Party said:

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But people on this thread are complaining about a government issue and you are telling them to stop complaining. Because Trump supposedly supports the CR's and Johnson supposedly is only doing this because Trump wants him to.

You are leaving zero wiggle room for Johnson to be in favor of not creating a budget thus taking the easy way out with CR's, like all his establishment predecessers have done. And you are ignoring the DOGE aspect which is completely different from the last term. That is not a position of accuracy and has hints of an emotional aspect not in the words chosen but rather in the parts ignored.

Essentially you are indirectly advocating for the status quo by telling people to stop complaining and deal with it rather than try for doing the right thing, which comes across as very much in favor of CR's and the big gov status quo, whether intended or not hence the confusion of your actual policy positions. Johnson could abandon the CR's if more people complained. He almost certainly will not if there is public apathy driven by people telling them to stop complaining and deal with it.

Your point is likely right regarding CR's and Trump not calling Johnson out on it, but you are jumping to a lot of what I believe to be incorrect assumptions to justify your conclusion.

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This goes beyond a simple CR. This increases the baseline spending that was already increased during COVID. For example, it includes a 40% pay increase for Congress.

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But people on this thread are complaining about a government issue and you are telling them to stop complaining. Because Trump supposedly supports the CR's and Johnson supposedly is only doing this because Trump wants him to.

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I've never told anyone to stop complaining. Just be accurate in your complaining.

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You are leaving zero wiggle room for Johnson to be in favor of not creating a budget thus taking the easy way out with CR's, like all his establishment predecessers have done. And you are ignoring the DOGE aspect which is completely different from the last term.

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I'm not ignoring DOGE and addressed it. They are focused on effeciency in government agencies. That was their role. They are also just two Trump supporters in an advisory role. They aren't confirmed in an official Senate capacity and will be treated like that by a separate branch of government. Again, this is the reality.

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Essentially you are indirectly advocating for the status quo by telling people to stop complaining and deal with it rather than try for doing the right thing, which comes across as very much in favor of CR's and the big gov status quo, whether intended or not hence the confusion of your actual policy positions. Johnson could abandon the CR's if more people complained. He almost certainly will not if there is public apathy driven by people telling them to stop complaining and deal with it.

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No one complaining on a college football fan forum will change Johnson's mind. Only Trump can do that as Johnson is loyal to him.

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Your point is likely right regarding CR's and Trump not calling Johnson out on it, but you are jumping to a lot of what I believe to be incorrect assumptions to justify your conclusion.

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My conclusion will be born to reality very soon. Then all of you will forget an then just post "vaccine something something vaccine" next time.

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The bill could have easily been under 20 pages. Instead, there are dozens of unrelated policy items crammed into the 1,547 pages of this bill. There's no legitimate reason for them to be voted on as a package deal by a lame-duck Congress. 72 pages worth of "Pandemic Preparedness and Response" policy; renewal of the much-criticized "Global Engagement Center," a key player in the federal censorship state; 17 different pieces of Commerce legislation; paving the way for a new football stadium in D.C.; a pay raise for Congressmen & Senators and making them eligible for Federal Employee Health Benefits. It's indefensible to ram these measures through at the last second without debate.

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Vivek weighs in:

This is what we’ve been warning about. The reason we fought for a 72 hour rule on bills is to expose - with sunlight - these disastrous bills. The @HouseGOP should vote NO. Miss Christmas if we must. https://t.co/WUm2L9kI84

— Chip Roy (@chiproytx) December 18, 2024

Teslag said:

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I think Trump will focus a lot of his energy on the executive agencies, and he should. That's where a lot of work needs to be done in tearing down the bureaucracy. But Trump has never shown a ton of interest in legislative fights and largely defers it to his leadership in those houses.

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Yes, but I think that is a mistake that a lot of people made with their assumptions about what a vote for Trump meant. There will be a big upgrade to the quality of people that fill the roles in administration of what is essentially liberal (or at least big government) policy, but this last election was not about conservative policy, it was about taking out the people who were there.

There is no sea change in a slightly-smaller-than-it-could-have-been big government. That isn't how it works. This is about expectations at this point and we can't expect fixes when that isn't what we actually voted for.