Are they serious?

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With wildfires ravaging West Maui on Aug. 8, a state water official delayed the release of water that landowners wanted to help protect their property from fires. The water standoff played out over much of the day and the water didn't come until too late.

The dispute involved the Department of Land and Natural Resources' water resource management division and West Maui Land Co., which manages agricultural and residential subdivisions in West Maui as well as Launiupoko Irrigation Co., Launiupoko Water Co., Olowalu Water Co. and Ha'iku Town Water Association.

DLNR delayed releasing water requested by West Maui Land Co. to help prevent the spread of fire, sources familiar with the situation said.

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According to the sources, Manuel wanted West Maui Land to get permission from a taro, or kalo, farm located downstream from the company's property. Manuel eventually released water but not until after the fire had spread. It was not clear on Monday how much damage the fire did in the interim or whether homes were damaged.

Manuel declined to be interviewed for this story. DLNR's communications office said in an email that it was supporting the state's emergency communications response and "unable to facilitate your inquiry at this time."

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But the governor said conflicts over water are being reshaped in an age of climate change and wildfires. Now the conflict includes opponents who do not want water to be used to fight fires, the governor said.

"One thing that people need to understand especially those from far away is that there's been a great deal of water conflict on Maui for many years," Green said. "It's important that we're honest about this. People have been fighting against the release of water to fight fires. I'll leave that to you to explore."


"We have a difficult time on Maui and other rural areas getting enough water for houses, for our people, for any response," Green added. "But it's important we start being honest. There are currently people still fighting in our state giving us water access to fight and prepare for fires even as more storms arise."
Green said the state is in the midst of a "comprehensive review" by Attorney General Anne Lopez of decisions made before and during the firefighting efforts.

"There will be multiple reviews at every level," he said.

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LINK

100 percent guarantee that guy is a local political crony, looking out for his political benefactors there first. Everything run by 'tribal' politics is decided like this, and that's how Hawaiians work.

nortex97 said:

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100 percent guarantee that guy is a local political crony, looking out for his political benefactors there first. Everything run by 'tribal' politics is decided like this, and that's how Hawaiians work.

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Not disagreeing with you but my question is how can a fire department fight fire without water?

Water from the ocean? The size of the pumps and pipelines required to get the hydrant system to do that would be very expensive. Then there is the maintenance issue with salt water running through them. Corrosion galore.

So what else besides water? Baking soda? Salt? Foam? Which now causes cancer allegedly?

"putting the wet stuff on the red stuff," is what firefighters do.

Looks like my post on pg1 was spot on.

WTF?

🚨 THIS IS PURE EVIL!!! I Have Obtained New Footage From Maui Fire Ground Zero That Shows Hawaii Police Officer SHUTTING DOWN A CITIZEN DONATION CENTER FOR VICTIMS OF THE FIRES 🚨

⚠️ The Officer Says (Not Knowing He is Being Recorded) THAT THE “POWERS THAT BE” ARE RESPONSIBLE ⚠️… pic.twitter.com/h90WAQle8d

— Matt Wallace (@MattWallace888) August 17, 2023

This is not an answer, it is a deflection.

Reporter asks Biden's FEMA administrator:

"We keep interviewing survivor after survivor who says that either they didn't see any government personnel or assistance for days, or that they still haven't. How do you explain the disconnect between what they're saying and what you're… pic.twitter.com/BdHfKqAaqU

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) August 16, 2023

CBS News has learned Maui’s emergency operations chief had no background in disaster response. It’s his department that is responsible for setting off warning sirens, which rang silent during the fires. #maui #wildfires #Lahaina #MauiFire

— Norah O'Donnell 🇺🇸 (@NorahODonnell) August 16, 2023

techno-ag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Me as well, really cool little town and sad to see. These fires happen there for a variety of reasons and always have unfortunately. Summer time things dry up and you have so much vegetation so it can get bad quickly.

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When we there in 2009, visited a fire station. The Hubs being a retired firgihter likes to drop in and meet other firefighters when we are on trips. First off, it was a small substation that didn't really have a lot of equipment, just two trucks in the bay, maybe six guys on duty. All were pretty young and spent a lot of time working out and working on their tans. Then did have a nice workout room.

The Hubs was cross trained during his career, high rise fires, water and dive rescue and aircraft fire rescue etc. Those guys didn't believe him as none of them were. After about 30 minutes of talking shop about how many fires and the type of fires they had made, we left.

Basically, those guys were all a-holes. As we were driving away I asked The Hubs if he would go into a fire with any of them and he said no he wouldn't. That he had probies who were better trained than they were.

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Honestly, most Hawaiians are like that, especially toward outsiders, white outsiders in particular. They like your tourist dollars, but that's where it stops.

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They even have a derogatory term they use to refer to whites: howlie (how-lee)

CSTXAg92 said:

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techno-ag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Me as well, really cool little town and sad to see. These fires happen there for a variety of reasons and always have unfortunately. Summer time things dry up and you have so much vegetation so it can get bad quickly.

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When we there in 2009, visited a fire station. The Hubs being a retired firgihter likes to drop in and meet other firefighters when we are on trips. First off, it was a small substation that didn't really have a lot of equipment, just two trucks in the bay, maybe six guys on duty. All were pretty young and spent a lot of time working out and working on their tans. Then did have a nice workout room.

The Hubs was cross trained during his career, high rise fires, water and dive rescue and aircraft fire rescue etc. Those guys didn't believe him as none of them were. After about 30 minutes of talking shop about how many fires and the type of fires they had made, we left.

Basically, those guys were all a-holes. As we were driving away I asked The Hubs if he would go into a fire with any of them and he said no he wouldn't. That he had probies who were better trained than they were.

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Honestly, most Hawaiians are like that, especially toward outsiders, white outsiders in particular. They like your tourist dollars, but that's where it stops.

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They even have a derogatory term they use to refer to whites: howlie (how-lee)

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Haole basically means outsider or foreigner. The people I met in Hawaii were mostly friendly but I did get an occasional cold shoulder from people and I have some friends who have moved there and been there a long time and are not fully accepted by many native Hawaiians.

Why do I keep hearing stories about more missing and dead being covered up?

Also why do I keep hearing stories about people being ordered to 'shelter in place' during a rapidly spreading wildfire?

And do we know why all warning systems failed?

And finally, have there been any efforts to repair the warning system failure? Just because the fire just happened doesn't foreclose another wind driven fire tomorrow or next week.

Seems like incompetence at every level.

But who really knows if what we are seeing in the media is accurate. But the videos posted to social media of people on the ground are hard to ignore.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Why do I keep hearing stories about more missing and dead being covered up?

Also why do I keep hearing stories about people being ordered to 'shelter in place' during a rapidly spreading wildfire?

And do we know why all warning systems failed?

And finally, have there been any efforts to repair the warning system failure? Just because the fire just happened doesn't foreclose another wind driven fire tomorrow or next week.

Seems like incompetence at every level.

But who really knows if what we are seeing in the media is accurate. But the videos posted to social media of people on the ground are hard to ignore.

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You know what we are not seeing much of? Boots on the ground. A 45 minute flight away on Oahu are a ton of troops, large transport planes and supplies. There is no Russel Honore in charge having daily press conferences.

Now it may be happening and we just are not seeing it but I have questions about that.

Really good point. Just a terrible government response all around.

Phat32 said:

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Really good point. Just a terrible government response all around.

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With the C-17s in Oahu and the Kahaluhi airport on Maui having a 7,000 foot long runway, why weren't those used to evacuate the thousands of tourists who were stranded on the island like they were used in Afghanistant to get people out?

Just read a harrowing account about tourists who arrived on Maui last Monday.

LINK

KJP looks happy.

"Can you tell us about your Hawaii trip, sir?"

BIDEN: "No" pic.twitter.com/ok4wrelK0q

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) August 17, 2023

underwhelming military response:

Military Now Has More Than 400 Troops Aiding Maui After Deadly Wildfires Devastated Island


Compared to this stat: Hawaii is home to more than 250,000 military personnel and their families

Renewables Mania And Woke Dogma Behind Hawaii Fire, Not Climate Change

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It's true that there's been a 31% decline in average yearly rainfall in Hawaii since 1990, according to researchers. The La Niña weather pattern, which usually leads to significant rainfall, has brought less precipitation over the last 40 years.

But other changes are more difficult to tie to rising global temperatures, such as the fact that larger storms have been moving northward, resulting in less rainfall. And only 16% of Maui County, where most of the wildfires were burning, has been in severe drought, with another 20% in moderate drought.

What's more, it's been human-made changes to the landscape, including the reversion of former sugar cane farms, which had been irrigated, to invasive grasses, which are quick to ignite. "The landscape is just covered with flammable stuff," one expert told the Times. "All of the conditions just came together."

Analysts found drops to power line voltage, which means that the lines were likely spraying sparks onto dry grasses. "It is unambiguous that Hawaiian Electric's grid experienced immense stress for a prolonged time," said one analyst. "There were dozens and dozens of major faults on the grid and any one of those could have been the ignition source for a fire."

Hawaiian Electric failed to clear flammable grasses from around electric wires. Over the last three years, the electric utility spent less than $250,000 into wildfire prevention. It had a plan, but failed to implement it, noted Lee Fang. The state utility commission dragged its feet on upgrades to Lahaina's fire protection, "with a time estimate for wildfire protection upgrades starting this year and completed in 2027."

"I was already fighting with the electric company because they never maintain the lines," said a fifth-generation Hawaii resident who lives on a family farm. "We were very concerned that these high-voltage lines were running through our property and going to our neighbors because they'd been on the ground, buried in trees, or lying so low."

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At this point, the source of this entire problem is that Hawaii is run by Democrats. You can piss and moan about the weather and climate all you want but that is out of our control.

Humans failed here by not being prepared. Not doing the work it takes to prevent or mitigate issues when they arise is the cause of this issue.

What typically happens in a disaster situation is that you have different agencies of the federal government fighting over which entity is going to conduct an investigation or take the lead on an investigation.

But not this one.

ShinerAggie said:

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Renewables Mania And Woke Dogma Behind Hawaii Fire, Not Climate Change

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It's true that there's been a 31% decline in average yearly rainfall in Hawaii since 1990, according to researchers. The La Niña weather pattern, which usually leads to significant rainfall, has brought less precipitation over the last 40 years.

But other changes are more difficult to tie to rising global temperatures, such as the fact that larger storms have been moving northward, resulting in less rainfall. And only 16% of Maui County, where most of the wildfires were burning, has been in severe drought, with another 20% in moderate drought.

What's more, it's been human-made changes to the landscape, including the reversion of former sugar cane farms, which had been irrigated, to invasive grasses, which are quick to ignite. "The landscape is just covered with flammable stuff," one expert told the Times. "All of the conditions just came together."

Analysts found drops to power line voltage, which means that the lines were likely spraying sparks onto dry grasses. "It is unambiguous that Hawaiian Electric's grid experienced immense stress for a prolonged time," said one analyst. "There were dozens and dozens of major faults on the grid and any one of those could have been the ignition source for a fire."

Hawaiian Electric failed to clear flammable grasses from around electric wires. Over the last three years, the electric utility spent less than $250,000 into wildfire prevention. It had a plan, but failed to implement it, noted Lee Fang. The state utility commission dragged its feet on upgrades to Lahaina's fire protection, "with a time estimate for wildfire protection upgrades starting this year and completed in 2027."

"I was already fighting with the electric company because they never maintain the lines," said a fifth-generation Hawaii resident who lives on a family farm. "We were very concerned that these high-voltage lines were running through our property and going to our neighbors because they'd been on the ground, buried in trees, or lying so low."

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If this follows the California model, the electric company will get sued, huge sums paid out to victims, and the electric bills will skyrocket for everyone in the state as the utility pays the settlement and invests billions in burying wires.

Because they already have their culprit. Climate change. This is typical cultist behavior. You can't question their religion, heretic!

Government by nature is incompetent. Government run by quasisocialists is even more incompetent.

They should consider having sensors shut down the electrical lines at certain wind speeds. Texas winds can also pose a threat under drought conditions.

Yep, we've seamlessly transitioned from climate change into 'The Climate Emergency.'

God only knows what we are about to see justified under a climate emergency order.

The thing about the climate emergency order will be that it will have no end date. It will be perpetual.

Totalitarianism will be ushered in on the basis of the weather.

After what we saw during covid, It's already a done deal.

We about to see a climate emergency and pandemic 2.0.

Dims, and they will continue to vote them in just like california, Chicago and others.

The seamless transition from climate change to climate emergency is reminiscent of the seamless transition from Afghanistan to the war in Ukraine.

And also reminiscent of the seamless transition from a second failed impeachment of Tump to covid 1.0.

Next we'll see a hurricane spawn out of the gulf in a few weeks and you'll see stories about how the climate emergency had reached a tipping point and we must act now.

aggiehawg said:

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nortex97 said:

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100 percent guarantee that guy is a local political crony, looking out for his political benefactors there first. Everything run by 'tribal' politics is decided like this, and that's how Hawaiians work.

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Not disagreeing with you but my question is how can a fire department fight fire without water?

Water from the ocean? The size of the pumps and pipelines required to get the hydrant system to do that would be very expensive. Then there is the maintenance issue with salt water running through them. Corrosion galore.

So what else besides water? Baking soda? Salt? Foam? Which now causes cancer allegedly?

"putting the wet stuff on the red stuff," is what firefighters do.

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While the frequency of wildfires probably doesn't warrant it, if there is an unfixable problem with getting water to the fire hydrants (have no idea what caused the problem or if it was a one-time deal), then water from the ocean could be done with some advance planning (which possibly they are not capable of). PVC pipe would eliminate a great deal of the corrosion problem.

https://x.com/thegeorgehq/status/1691915801761042773?s=46&t=uy7uZp0lkoxIvHM8oNDyAw

ShinerAggie said:

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Renewables Mania And Woke Dogma Behind Hawaii Fire, Not Climate Change

"I was already fighting with the electric company because they never maintain the lines," said a fifth-generation Hawaii resident who lives on a family farm. "We were very concerned that these high-voltage lines were running through our property and going to our neighbors because they'd been on the ground, buried in trees, or lying so low."

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Here's a likely reason for the Maui fires and most of the cali fires we've seen in the past. You have to have sufficient clearance between a high voltage line and electrical ground contact (branches, buildings, someone holding a pole saw, literally the ground beneath your feet, etc.) or the power will arc across the gap. If the electrical ground is flammable (dry vegetation) then a fire is the likely result.

Quote reads like the utility wasn't maintaining it's greenbelt clearances. In the case of the cali wildfires it was because the greenies passed laws forcing less and less clearance so as to increase the vegetation undergrowth & theoretical wildlife habitat. Extreme irony in that the attempt at increasing wildlife habitat resulted in wild fires which of course greatly reduced the habitat. Then they blamed the power company which responded with local brownouts when the wind got high enough to swing the power lines close enough to arc across the vegetation now encroaching into the design clearance limits.

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Access to water should be predicated on "conversations about equity," according to the Hawaii official under fire for delaying access to water during the Maui wildfires.

A former Obama Foundation leader part of a program by the former President's non-profit to help participants with coaching and "practical skill building for social change" Manuel said he considered water an important tool for social justice.

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One of the structures in this photo is inequitable. Can you find it?

The "leaders" in Congress decided to combined disaster relief for Maui with an extra $24 billion in funding for Ukraine.

That means members of Congress who oppose more funding for Ukraine (there are many) would have to vote NO on disaster relief for Maui if they want to also… https://t.co/gvEvlOZHJQ

— Wall Street Silver (@WallStreetSilv) August 20, 2023

Typical. McCarthy is trash.

Will Biden use this to enforce his Marxism via his declaration of a climate emergency?

nortex97 said:

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The "leaders" in Congress decided to combined disaster relief for Maui with an extra $24 billion in funding for Ukraine.

That means members of Congress who oppose more funding for Ukraine (there are many) would have to vote NO on disaster relief for Maui if they want to also… https://t.co/gvEvlOZHJQ

— Wall Street Silver (@WallStreetSilv) August 20, 2023

Typical. McCarthy is trash.

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To be fair, this is how the majority of business takes place in Congress and why we typically have to dig through a pile of pork excrement to finally retrieve the little tidbit of legislation that is needed/wanted.

The "typical" way of doing business is the entire problem, really.

Not a single penny of funding should pass until the J6 fedsurrection gulags are emptied, imho, let alone funding to prolong this war for another quarter while we are being invaded ourselves, and Joe Biden is using the DoJ to litigate against Americans (vs. Missouri) and Texas.

Frankly, a condition of further appropriations (for any single thing) from the House should be that Joe Biden and Garland resign immediately, and Kamala commit to not pardoning him or his family members and appointing a special counsel immediately of the House' recommendation.

This is weakness from 'the right' or the GOP, embodied.

GinMan said:

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https://x.com/thegeorgehq/status/1691915801761042773?s=46&t=uy7uZp0lkoxIvHM8oNDyAw

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So who ordered the blockade? And why?