aggiehawg said:

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NPH- said:

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Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

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based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

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The plot thickens. Maui Police Chief was the former Las Vegas Police Chief when the Vegas shooting happened.

LINK

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No idea how that's relevant. The county seat is near Kahului, which is about a 90-minute drive from Lahaina. With the speed that this thing moved, not a dang thing he could've done. We're talking about snap decisions made in good faith by people who probably had little experience with fires like this. Nobody would've gotten it completely right.

NPH- said:

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Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

---

based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

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I believe barricades were up due to downed power lines. It seems just it was a perfect storm leading up to the disaster. I am shocked that there wasn't any sort of warning system though.

FireAg said:

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Phat32 said:

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There's a terrible story at this intersection, and in the jam below.

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My guess is that is where a lot of folks jumped into the water and Coast Guard retrieved them…

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It is.

I have a friend from college that lives there. They got stuck exactly there and had to jump in the water with her husband and kids. Absolutely harrowing story she told me. They were on the water for hours. Constant explosions around them. Water was in fire because the ash was allowing it to pool on top of the water.

I guess the one good thing was this all popped off during the day. If it was at night the death toll would have been even higher since there was no warning

I absolutely believe it was…you just can't appreciate how fast those things move…I didn't fully appreciate it until I experienced it…

tylercsbn9 said:

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FireAg said:

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Phat32 said:

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There's a terrible story at this intersection, and in the jam below.

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My guess is that is where a lot of folks jumped into the water and Coast Guard retrieved them…

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It is.

I have a friend from college that lives there. They got stuck exactly there and had to jump in the water with her husband and kids. Absolutely harrowing story she told me. They were on the water for hours. Constant explosions around them. Water was in fire because the ash was allowing it to pool on top of the water.

I guess the one good thing was this all popped off during the day. If it was at night the death toll would have been even higher since there was no warning

---

I wonder if people with boats were trying to come in and rescue those they could rescue from the water.

eric76 said:

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tylercsbn9 said:

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FireAg said:

---

Phat32 said:

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There's a terrible story at this intersection, and in the jam below.

---

My guess is that is where a lot of folks jumped into the water and Coast Guard retrieved them…

---

It is.

I have a friend from college that lives there. They got stuck exactly there and had to jump in the water with her husband and kids. Absolutely harrowing story she told me. They were on the water for hours. Constant explosions around them. Water was in fire because the ash was allowing it to pool on top of the water.

I guess the one good thing was this all popped off during the day. If it was at night the death toll would have been even higher since there was no warning

---

I wonder if people with boats were trying to come in and rescue those they could rescue from the water.

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They were eventually rescued by a civilian boater

HAWAII UPDATES: ''I just got out of a meeting where I was informed by someone in the Mayor's office about developments that are being kept from the public. I am not a conspiracy theorist and I don’t want to make trouble but here’s what I’ve heard. The amount of fatalities is… pic.twitter.com/8PYg3N2BkD

— nikola 3 (@ronin19217435) August 14, 2023

I will pretty much never believe a twitter account that is a word followed by a bunch of random numbers. The grammar in that post is also pretty terrible.

bthotugigem05 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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NPH- said:

---

Phat32 said:

---

Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

---

based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

---

The plot thickens. Maui Police Chief was the former Las Vegas Police Chief when the Vegas shooting happened.

LINK

---

No idea how that's relevant. The county seat is near Kahului, which is about a 90-minute drive from Lahaina. With the speed that this thing moved, not a dang thing he could've done. We're talking about snap decisions made in good faith by people who probably had little experience with fires like this. Nobody would've gotten it completely right.

---

Police and fire can make mistakes and not be prepared. It happens.

One problem with that guy's claim is that if there were hundreds of missing/dead children, you'd have their parents screaming bloody murder to every media outlet that would listen. So far that hasn't happened.

FireAg said:

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agz win said:

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Governor claiming the fire advanced a mile per minute.

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I have personally experienced a wildfire move more than 1,000 feet, in less than 30 seconds, uphill...

It's the only type of fire that ever made me nervous...

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Damn.

I read a book called "Young Men and Fire" about the Mann Gulch fire on August 5, 1949 (written by Norman McClean of "A River Runs Through It" fame). As I recall, he and others tried to piece together what happened that day. One of the conclusions was a fire of that size and type creates its own weather system which was somewhat of a new idea. He also was trying to determine the culpability of the fire jumper foreman.

Someone else finished the book after McClean's death so I don't know who it was that stated, in their research on either the Mann Gulch fire or other fires, that huge sections of trees and brush would rapidly ignite all at once due to high heat, dry conditions, etc. True or not, pretty scary stuff.

Always wanted to go to Mann Gulch, just never have made it.

tylercsbn9 said:

---

NPH- said:

---

Phat32 said:

---

Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

---

based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

---

I believe barricades were up due to downed power lines. It seems just it was a perfect storm leading up to the disaster. I am shocked that there wasn't any sort of warning system though.

---

Well now we know why the feds are onsite and locking the area down.

Prayers for those who have lost.

GinMan said:

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The problem with the whole "lets burn this down so we can buy it out and take over" by big developers is that wild fire is completely unpredictable. It could have easily swept north of Lahaina and burned down all the big developments at Kaanapali.

one safe place said:

---

FireAg said:

---

agz win said:

---

Governor claiming the fire advanced a mile per minute.

---

I have personally experienced a wildfire move more than 1,000 feet, in less than 30 seconds, uphill...

It's the only type of fire that ever made me nervous...

---

Damn.

I read a book called "Young Men and Fire" about the Mann Gulch fire on August 5, 1949 (written by Norman McClean of "A River Runs Through It" fame). As I recall, he and others tried to piece together what happened that day. One of the conclusions was a fire of that size and type creates its own weather system which was somewhat of a new idea. He also was trying to determine the culpability of the fire jumper foreman.

Someone else finished the book after McClean's death so I don't know who it was that stated, in their research on either the Mann Gulch fire or other fires, that huge sections of trees and brush would rapidly ignite all at once due to high heat, dry conditions, etc. True or not, pretty scary stuff.

Always wanted to go to Mann Gulch, just never have made it.

---

How the 1871 Peshtigo Fire Became America's Deadliest Wildfire

In 1871, the Wisconsin town of Peshtigo burned to the ground, killing up to 2,500 people. But due to another event at the time, many have never heard about the disaster.

That summer, in 1871, was one of the driest on record. A 20th-century reconstruction conducted by the National Weather Service showed that after a long period of higher-than-usual temperatures and drought, a low-pressure front with cooler temperatures produced winds across the region. This whipped smaller fires into a giant conflagration.

Hundred-mile-per-hour winds stoked the fire even more, with cool air fanning the flames and causing a gigantic column of hot air to rise. This produced even more winda vicious cycle that turned a routine wildfire into an inferno.

It's amazing that pretty much no one knows about the Peshtigo fire. I brought it up with some coworkers when we were discussing the Maui fire, and none of them had a clue.

A while back I was watching the HBO show The Gilded Age with some friends and the fire is referenced when one characters visits his mother's (empty) grave and then explains to one of his coworkers that she had died in the Peshtigo fire and her body was never found. My friends had never heard of it either.

I have a forestry degree and we studied that fire in fire management class

Did Biden visit today?

jt2hunt said:

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Did Biden visit today?

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not according to this:

Joe Biden - President's Public Schedule

Joe's going on vacation, again, this weekend to NV. If he wasn't a vegetable, he'd take a trip out there.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Did Biden visit today?

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not according to this:

Joe Biden - President's Public Schedule

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they could not even send the B-team as Kamala is here in Seattle today.

I mean.. that is only a 6 hour flight at this point.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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Did Biden visit today?

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not according to this:

Joe Biden - President's Public Schedule

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Libs are just saying he's staying away because the locals have asked people not to come so the island can recover

Good news everybody. Fortunately all the outstanding answers on the Maui fire and more can be answered in this comprehensive book published 3-days after the incident.

Doc Stones confirms that the fire was caused by climate change.

Largest landowner in Maui is Oprah, per news comments.

jt2hunt said:

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Did Biden visit today?

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"No comment"

Phat32 said:

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Looks like the photos of cars on the streets after 9-11.

The Red Cross raised $500 million for Haiti earthquake relief in 2010, spent 25% on internal administrative costs, built about 6 houses for Haitians and refuses to say what it did with the rest of the money. And Michelle Obama helped lead their fundraising drive. https://t.co/gIb9HOfwhN

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) August 15, 2023

Let's just see what the Clinton/obama/Biden grift is on this one.

The good news is that FEMA is making sure its response is "culturally responsive."

Wouldn't want food, water or shelter to be insensitive.

FEMA ADMINISTRATOR CRISWELL: "We are working with our state and local partners to ensure that our outreach and our messaging is also culturally responsive." pic.twitter.com/RyuU5K4S9g

— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) August 14, 2023

FEMA reportedly serving residents saran wrapped spam musubi and poi.

nortex97 said:

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The Red Cross raised $500 million for Haiti earthquake relief in 2010, spent 25% on internal administrative costs, built about 6 houses for Haitians and refuses to say what it did with the rest of the money. And Michelle Obama helped lead their fundraising drive. https://t.co/gIb9HOfwhN

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) August 15, 2023

Let's just see what the Clinton/obama/Biden grift is on this one.

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Lol. I gave money to that effort and it was the last time I will ever give money to the Red Cross. What an absolute scam of an organization.

nortex97 said:

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The Red Cross raised $500 million for Haiti earthquake relief in 2010, spent 25% on internal administrative costs, built about 6 houses for Haitians and refuses to say what it did with the rest of the money. And Michelle Obama helped lead their fundraising drive. https://t.co/gIb9HOfwhN

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) August 15, 2023

Let's just see what the Clinton/obama/Biden grift is on this one.

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FbHo

This is awesome. Around the clock meal making. And the donations farmers are giving...

And Sheldon is one of my favorite Top Chef contestants ever

https://m.thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/14/08/2023/hawaii-star-chefs-mount-massive-operation-to-feed-fire-survivors

Quote:

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"We know that food is medicine," Sheldon Simeon, a Maui-based chef known nationally as an ambassador of Hawaiian cuisine, told AFP.

ADVERTISING

"For these people to be able to give them a hot meal... it's something that connects them with Hawaii... instead of something that's, you know, out of a can," he said at a bustling center in Kahului cranking out thousands of fresh meals a day.


"Hopefully it's the start of a little bit of healing."

Lahaina, a historic tourist town of about 12,000 people on Maui's west coast, was decimated by a raging fire last week, leaving at least 96 dead and thousands homeless.

Authorities believe the death toll will continue to rise as teams continue to comb the charred area.

Read Also
Hawaii fire death toll nears 100, and anger grows
Over 1,400 residents who lost everything are now in shelters, staying with relatives or spending the nights in their cars.

As criticism mounts over what many have termed a slow official response, communities have been launching their own initiatives to cope with the tragedy.

In the kitchen at the University of Hawaii culinary school in Kahului, about 30 miles (50 kilometers) north of Lahaina, the pace is frenetic.

Dozens of trays of food disappear in minutes, with an endless row of volunteers filling small containers, which are then placed in coolers.

Simeon and other culinary stars -- such as fellow "Top Chef" contestant Lee Anne Wong, whose restaurant was razed in the fire -- are now working in three shifts to feed the homeless and those who remain in Lahaina.

"Some of our chefs have lost their homes (in the fire), and they're right here right alongside us cooking for their community. Just gives you a sense of what the 'aloha' spirit is," Simeon said.


9,000 meals a day

The team of chefs and dozens of volunteers prepare and package about 9,000 meals every day.

"I've worked in high volume restaurants and kitchens my whole life and I've never seen the sheer mass of this food," said private chef Taylor Ponte.

"We have pig farmers... dropping out 4,000 pounds (1,800 kilograms) of meat. We just got 2,000 pounds of salmon coming over from Alaska. People are dropping hundreds of pounds of local watermelon. It's a... very, very massive amount of food," he added, taking a short break from the intense day.

Menus are tailored based on what's available, but are always prepared with a local touch.

Lunch on Sunday, for example, was a Thai curry with local mahi.

Dinner was macaroni and cheese, with bolognese and tomato sauce.

"I know that's a lot to crank out anywhere from 7,000 to 9,000 meals a day and you get kind of creative with what you got," Simeon explained.

Members of the Salvation Army and other volunteer networks pick up the food, which arrives at shelters and in Lahaina still warm.

They're hardly done with lunch when it is time to start dinner.

And while the arrival of more volunteers has guaranteed additional hours of rest for the chefs, the shifts are still long.

Ponte, in his blue apron, doesn't complain.

"We're just tired. These people (the survivors) are tired, hungry and homeless," he said. "You know as chefs, we never really sleep anyways."

---

An interesting take on the factors fanning the wildfires:

The Real Cause of the Maui Wildfire Disaster

Quote:

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This blog will discuss the key reason for the Maui disaster, one not discussed by the media and others: a high amplitude atmospheric wave forced by strong winds interacting with the mountains of northwest Maui.

An atmosphere wave that produced powerful, dry downslope winds on the western slopes of West Maui mountains.

---

Quote:

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An extraordinarily high amplitude wave had formed, with air descending the western side of the Maui Mountains, accelerating as it plummeted towards Lahaina. At low elevations, the flow abruptly ascended, in a feature often termed a hydraulic jump.

---

Quote:

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The combination of strong winds and dry air hugely promotes fire, including rapidly drying surface fuels such as grass.

It did not matter whether the grass or light vegetation were wet or dry the days or weeks before: this extraordinary atmospheric animal would ensure they were dry enough to burn. Prior dry conditions during the weeks before were immaterial.

---

If true…I'm going to guess that this was made before the fires but if this is fact, then he needs to be criminally charged.

What a whack job. Let me guess, he's a Democrat.

Hawaiian official M. Kaleo Manuel refused to release water in Maui as the fire raged

Manuel is deputy director of the Department of Land and Natural Resources

Here he is explaining that water should be revered, not used:pic.twitter.com/iZ6PvghwqN

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 16, 2023