Secolobo said:

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UH wildfire expert: Invasive grasses growing in the abandoned plantations fueled wildfires on Maui and Hawaii Island

Much of the former cropland has reverted to dry grass and shrubs that flush green after the rain and periodically burn off in wildfires as they dry in the hot Lahaina sun."

A Maui Rancher Prepares To Lose 3,400 Acres To Conservation

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nature will fill the voids, many times with something you don't want. Running off agriculture probable was heralded in this area and now maybe that wasn't such a good idea

No matter who owns it, land must be managed, there isn't this let it go back to nature and leave it alone that works anywhere the environment has been altered by man.

Fire burning all the structures is the epitome of "let it go back to nature". It's just that nature does not acknowledge your property line.

I keep reading about the plantations and ranches being abandoned but not the reason why. Were they undersold by cheap produce and meat from China and elsewhere? Government restrictions and taxes? Labor cost? Anyone have a firm explanation?

Demosthenes81 said:

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I keep reading about the plantations and ranches being abandoned but not the reason why. Were they undersold by cheap produce and meat from China and elsewhere? Government restrictions and taxes? Labor cost? Anyone have a firm explanation?

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I noticed several of the sugar cane fields on Maui are now growing lemons…. That was new…

Certainly not a new phenomenon:

Kind of interesting history, how our sugar industry has been destroyed while 'corn syrup' has grown so much the past 30 years, including on Hawaii. But it's not just that, every other crop/agricultural product in Hawaii has been steadily decimated it looks like. My swag is labor and cost of the land (taxes)/energy etc. have gone way up vs. 'other' options. Hawaii has been run by racist democrats since the 50's, so some of that is pretty much par for the course…

Aside….

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BREAKING: The United States has just sent another $200 million in aid to Ukraine.

$200 million to Ukraine today and Maui doesn't even get a comment.

As American citizens in Lahaina, Maui suffer from the loss of life and property President Joe Biden has just sent $200M worth of artillery rounds, air defense munitions and other weapons to Ukraine.

Nearly 100 people have been confirmed dead in the Maui fires, over 2000 structures have been destroyed and thousands have been displaced.

I hope Biden had a great vacation.

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My family has routinely visited Maui (sans Covid) for damn near 30 years…

This was the first time I had ever seen vast lemon orchards growing along the highway between the main Maui central marina and Kahului Airport…

That used to be almost exclusively sugar cane, with a few pineapple orchards mixed in…

Wonder what insurance company has the most to payout in Lahaina?

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There was a report from a company that monitors power grid activity that a "large fault" was detected on a power line 20 minutes before the wildfire started. It may very well have been a coincidence since residents were reporting power outages all throughout Tuesday.

Quote:

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The Lahaina wildfire was one of four that sprang up Tuesday in the region, officials said. It started as an early brush fire that firefighters thought they had under control by 9 a.m.

By afternoon, the Lahaina fire had flared again. It became a major blaze that destroyed or damaged thousands of structures, many of which were residential, officials said. Some residents were forced to plunge into the Pacific Ocean in a frantic bid to stay alive. The U.S. Coast Guard said it rescued 17 people from the water.

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Well that sucks.

LINK

Governor claiming the fire advanced a mile per minute.

agz win said:

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Governor claiming the fire advanced a mile per minute.

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I have personally experienced a wildfire move more than 1,000 feet, in less than 30 seconds, uphill...

It's the only type of fire that ever made me nervous...

I worked the Roberts fire in Glacier NP way back when and that was the craziest thing I have ever seen. I have no idea how fast it was moving, but it was scary AF.

Hoyt Ag said:

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I worked the Roberts fire in Glacier NP way back when and that was the craziest thing I have ever seen. I have no idea how fast it was moving, but it was scary AF.

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We were at the top of a ravine in a brush truck, about to lay down a defensive line of AFFF (yeah, that probably dates me...)...between the time I parked at the top of the ravine and was out and starting the pump, it had gone over 1,000 feet and was at my tires... I hadn't even had a chance to move the dial over to the foam setting...

I've worked fires on the technical side doing GIS work where we're monitoring them and trying to consume radio traffic in and update maps to close roads. This was back in 2007. Technology was a fraction then as today. No drones, couldn't fly at night, couldn't track fireflines through smoke.

And fire races uphill, people taking switchbacks down the mountains burned to death because they could t out race the fire. Absolutely horrific.

They had winds up to 70mph, and FireAg AFFF is still in use today in a number of Wet Pipe sprinkler systems for hydrocarbons and class A fires, and on trucks.

Ansulite 3% and 6% AFFF and AR AFFF

I just heard a firsthand account of a tourist & his family that were visiting Maui and were caught in the thick of this fire. Out of respect of their privacy (or until I have permission to divulge more) I am choosing to be vague with who they are/what they experienced. His story is absolutely incredible & unbelievable. Officials' evacuation plan & police response was worse than what is being reported in the media. Based on his firsthand account, one could argue how officials handled this disaster directly resulted in more deaths than perhaps what would have occurred had they not handled the evacuation the way they did.

I've heard stories of locals who were devastated by this disaster, but this was an unreal story of a tourist navigating this tragedy with his family in unfamiliar territory, not knowing their surroundings, etc.

Prayers for all those involved.

oneeyedag said:

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They had winds up to 70mph, and FireAg AFFF is still in use today in a number of Wet Pipe sprinkler systems for hydrocarbons and class A fires, and on trucks.

Ansulite 3% and 6% AFFF and AR AFFF

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If I never have to deal with another AFFF system I will be so damned happy. I've spent way too much of my life dealing with them for not being a firefighter

oneeyedag said:

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They had winds up to 70mph, and FireAg AFFF is still in use today in a number of Wet Pipe sprinkler systems for hydrocarbons and class A fires, and on trucks.

Ansulite 3% and 6% AFFF and AR AFFF

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I haven't followed the progress of any of the lawsuits, and I don't have cancer yet...definitely not up to speed with how it's used these days...

Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

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based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

NPH- said:

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Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

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based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

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Absolutely believe that it felt like that in the heat of the moment...

If I had to guess, though, I think inexperience with wildland fires played a major role in this...and barricades used to keep folks from going into this area or that felt like traps when the fire jumped here and there, and winds shifted, etc...

Even the best of the best in the CA wildfire fighting teams struggle at times with predicting fire behavior and movement...

They do a damn good job...far better than most ever could, but I'd bet a good sum of money the Maui County teams didn't have a significant amount of experience in wildland blazes...

In fact, I am not sure I have seen very many brush trucks in general in my years there as a visitor...

Biden was asked about the deadly fires in Hawaii where nearly 100 are dead and over 1,000 still missing

His response: “No comment”

He just destroyed his 2024 campaign

pic.twitter.com/wdI9LXajWO

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 14, 2023

What a POS

There's a terrible story at this intersection, and in the jam below.

Phat32 said:

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There's a terrible story at this intersection, and in the jam below.

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My guess is that is where a lot of folks jumped into the water and Coast Guard retrieved them…

Rapier108 said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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Biden was asked about the deadly fires in Hawaii where nearly 100 are dead and over 1,000 still missing

His response: “No comment”

He just destroyed his 2024 campaign

pic.twitter.com/wdI9LXajWO

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 14, 2023

What a POS

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Won't hurt his campaign a bit. His voters don't care either. If Biden is the nominee, they'll pull the D lever automatically.

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Very similar to GW Bush looking out an AF One window at the Katrina devastation. Not exactly a 'command look' moment for Biden.

I think that is part of the issue, the Coast Guard did not get dispatched right away which is why there are a lot missing.

Rapier108 said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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Biden was asked about the deadly fires in Hawaii where nearly 100 are dead and over 1,000 still missing

His response: “No comment”

He just destroyed his 2024 campaign

pic.twitter.com/wdI9LXajWO

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 14, 2023

What a POS

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Won't hurt his campaign a bit. His voters don't care either. If Biden is the nominee, they'll pull the D lever automatically.

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Most of them are dead, fake or stupid!

NPH- said:

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Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

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based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

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The plot thickens. Maui Police Chief was the former Las Vegas Police Chief when the Vegas shooting happened.

LINK

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cv0R2XEAHLy/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

NPH- said:

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I just heard a firsthand account of a tourist & his family that were visiting Maui and were caught in the thick of this fire. Out of respect of their privacy (or until I have permission to divulge more) I am choosing to be vague with who they are/what they experienced. His story is absolutely incredible & unbelievable. Officials' evacuation plan & police response was worse than what is being reported in the media. Based on his firsthand account, one could argue how officials handled this disaster directly resulted in more deaths than perhaps what would have occurred had they not handled the evacuation the way they did.

I've heard stories of locals who were devastated by this disaster, but this was an unreal story of a tourist navigating this tragedy with his family in unfamiliar territory, not knowing their surroundings, etc.

Prayers for all those involved.

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I have read that in some areas, the roads were barricaded and closed because of the fire, but the road closures ended up forcing people back towards it.

aggiehawg said:

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NPH- said:

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Phat32 said:

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Without revealing identity, what were the specifics that showed how poorly they handled it?

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based on what I was told of his experience, police barricades effectively trapped anyone trying to evacuate the immediate area.

EDIT: didn't mean to throw out hyperbole, so let me clarify -- police may have been trying to funnel evacuees to one route to avoid perceived danger/fire routes, but in doing so created a maze that unintentionally trapped evacuees from escaping before the fire reached them. from what i was told, barricades were installed on several routes of escape that funneled motorists back towards lahaina.

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The plot thickens. Maui Police Chief was the former Las Vegas Police Chief when the Vegas shooting happened.

LINK

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What plot, other than the guy might have been a poor choice for the job?

Rhetorical device.

The selling point on the guy was that he knew how to do policing in a tourist hotspot (no pun intended). Just thought it was an odd coincidence.

Biden actually addressed auto worker wages while the disaster unfolds. He is the disaster.