Zobel said:

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This is the author of the same bad paper that's was posted on the other thread yesterday. Doshi, a co author on the paper is an antivaxxer of the "traditional" pre-vaccine stripe.

You actually responded to me about it here
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3353507/replies/64026933

Stop being so believing of everything you see on twitter.

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You posted a preprint. I believe the final "peer reviewed" version was published in September.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22010283


That said, are you familiar with any of the studies that followed up vaccinations with ECG, MRI, or troponin testing? That seems a better methodology to detect subclinical myo/peri carditis than the studies you post which all admittedly underreport heart vaccine-related injuries.

I wonder what those studies indicate.

Cardiovascular effects were found in 29.24% of patients, ranging from tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis.


In total, 763 students (17.1%) had at least one cardiac symptom after the second vaccine dose. Abnormal ECGs were obtained in 51 (1.0%) of the students.


From the previous passive observation of severe cases, it had been concluded that around 35 out of 1,000,000 vaccinated individuals would develop myocarditis. In our study, we found evidence of temporary mild damage to cardiac cells in 22 of the 777 participants 2.8% instead of the anticipated 0.0035%

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Rockdoc said:

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People who continue to take the jab are terminally biased or just plain ignorant of what's going on.

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It does not prevent infection
It does not prevent transmission.

These things are undeniable.

Yet people still goal tend.

They are weak and impish morons.

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You both seem really upset about people's personal medical decisions.

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If it was left as someone's person medical decision no one would have any issues at all. It's the fact that it was forced down our throats. Even zoro up above said he had to get it to travel. People had to get it to keep their jobs, to see family, to get medical care, etc… *ALL* with the promise attached that it was because it stopped infection and transmission. It was a complete lie and anyone with half a brain could see that from the beginning. It was a lie and it was not a personal decision. Some schools required kids to get it to go to school. That is criminal. Forcing gene therapy on kids?? What the actual ****?

And now people are still defending it. It's literally insane. People still proposing that the unjabbed should be denied medical care, access to anything other than basic necessities. It's now time to really take note of those still defending it. You can't trust them and they made it clear that they will be an enemy when **** hits the fan again.

The dam is breaking pic.twitter.com/7uWKTO6q8x

— Tayl0r Day (@TABYTCHII) January 9, 2023

It's kinda funny that you object to me linking pre print and then follow up with three preprints of your own.

I don't have time to read those this week, away from my computer. But I will when I get the chance.

I see the last one is an interview so I read it real quick l. Why did you use that quote and not these?

I have to emphasize that this is a mild effect. Symptoms include shortness of breath, fatigue and possibly pressure on the chest, but as I said, they are rather mild and non-specific. We performed further investigation in the study participants with elevated cardiac troponin levels. On the following day, Day 4 after vaccination, cardiac troponin values were back in the normal range in around half of the 22 affected individuals. This marker is extremely sensitive with other methods such as MRI we wouldn't have been able to detect any damage to the cardiac muscle, as it only becomes visible once the damage there is about three to five times greater.
…
We are also exposed to infections like Covid-19 and the flu in the natural course of things, which can also damage the heart muscle. We have to take this into account when weighing the risks and the benefits, especially when it comes to younger people, but this is difficult based on the current data situation. According to current knowledge, the cardiac muscle can't regenerate, or only to a very limited degree at best. So it's possible that repeated booster vaccinations every year could cause moderate damage to the heart muscle cells. Due to the heightened occurrence of cardiovascular incidents during and after a Covid-19 infection, we know that the disease itself is causing more severe damage to the heart. For the latter, we have hard evidence.
…
the recommendation [to vaccinate] remains unchanged. These groups have a higher risk of experiencing severe cases of the disease with serious health consequences. The high benefit of strong vaccination protection for these groups is not in question.
…
Some people are still skeptical about mRNA vaccination because they say it hasn't been tested enough. Are they right?
I wouldn't say that. mRNA vaccination technology is a fantastic development. This efficient protection provided by the Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech vaccines was a medical sensation without this development, the damage caused by the pandemic would have been so much worse. The vaccines saved millions of lives.

I never knocked your study because it was a preprint. Conversely I posted a peer-reviewed study which you summarily dismissed. I hope we have established that evidence exists in many forms and can be helpful regardless of whether peer-reviewed.

I didn't dismiss it because it was a pre print. I dismissed it because the methodology was crap. They were counting events on one side and hospitalizations on the other and comparing the totals.

Zobel said:

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I see the last one is an interview so I read it real quick l. Why did you use that quote and not these?

I have to emphasize that this is a mild effect. Symptoms include shortness of breath, fatigue and possibly pressure on the chest, but as I said, they are rather mild and non-specific. We performed further investigation in the study participants with elevated cardiac troponin levels. On the following day, Day 4 after vaccination, cardiac troponin values were back in the normal range in around half of the 22 affected individuals. This marker is extremely sensitive with other methods such as MRI we wouldn't have been able to detect any damage to the cardiac muscle, as it only becomes visible once the damage there is about three to five times greater.
…
We are also exposed to infections like Covid-19 and the flu in the natural course of things, which can also damage the heart muscle. We have to take this into account when weighing the risks and the benefits, especially when it comes to younger people, but this is difficult based on the current data situation. According to current knowledge, the cardiac muscle can't regenerate, or only to a very limited degree at best. So it's possible that repeated booster vaccinations every year could cause moderate damage to the heart muscle cells. Due to the heightened occurrence of cardiovascular incidents during and after a Covid-19 infection, we know that the disease itself is causing more severe damage to the heart. For the latter, we have hard evidence.
…
the recommendation [to vaccinate] remains unchanged. These groups have a higher risk of experiencing severe cases of the disease with serious health consequences. The high benefit of strong vaccination protection for these groups is not in question.
…
Some people are still skeptical about mRNA vaccination because they say it hasn't been tested enough. Are they right?
I wouldn't say that. mRNA vaccination technology is a fantastic development. This efficient protection provided by the Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech vaccines was a medical sensation without this development, the damage caused by the pandemic would have been so much worse. The vaccines saved millions of lives.

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"millions of lives" is out and out BS. we know it

Zobel said:

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I didn't dismiss it because it was a pre print. I dismissed it because the methodology was crap. They were counting events on one side and hospitalizations on the other and comparing the totals.

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How is that crap methodology? And they're not conflating numbers. So, based on your assessment of this study, I'm assuming your assessment of the initial vax trials come to the same conclusion? Methodology was using an embarrassingly small sample size and determining any adverse reactions to be from anything but the vax. Yet you take that as gospel. The mental gymnastics are entertaining at least.

Smudge said:

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How is that crap methodology? And they're not conflating numbers. So, based on your assessment of this study, I'm assuming your assessment of the initial vax trials come to the same conclusion? Methodology was using an embarrassingly small sample size and determining any adverse reactions to be from anything but the vax. Yet you take that as gospel. The mental gymnastics are entertaining at least.

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Because they make a direct comparison on a cost:benefit between the two different numbers.

Here, you can read about their p-hacking and poor comparison.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/dont-do-this/

The "embarrassingly small sample" was about 10x the size of typical phase 3 clinical trials.

Zobel said:

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Smudge said:

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How is that crap methodology? And they're not conflating numbers. So, based on your assessment of this study, I'm assuming your assessment of the initial vax trials come to the same conclusion? Methodology was using an embarrassingly small sample size and determining any adverse reactions to be from anything but the vax. Yet you take that as gospel. The mental gymnastics are entertaining at least.

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Because they make a direct comparison on a cost:benefit between the two different numbers.

Here, you can read about their p-hacking and poor comparison.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/dont-do-this/

The "embarrassingly small sample" was about 10x the size of typical phase 3 clinical trials.

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Eventually, sure. But before the jabs were rolled out it was minuscule compared to other trials, and adverse reactions were far greater than anything previously approved by an order of magnitude. Non debatable and well documented.

Smudge said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

People who continue to take the jab are terminally biased or just plain ignorant of what's going on.

---

It does not prevent infection
It does not prevent transmission.

These things are undeniable.

Yet people still goal tend.

They are weak and impish morons.

---

You both seem really upset about people's personal medical decisions.

---

If it was left as someone's person medical decision no one would have any issues at all. It's the fact that it was forced down our throats. Even zoro up above said he had to get it to travel. People had to get it to keep their jobs, to see family, to get medical care, etc… *ALL* with the promise attached that it was because it stopped infection and transmission. It was a complete lie and anyone with half a brain could see that from the beginning. It was a lie and it was not a personal decision. Some schools required kids to get it to go to school. That is criminal. Forcing gene therapy on kids?? What the actual ****?

And now people are still defending it. It's literally insane. People still proposing that the unjabbed should be denied medical care, access to anything other than basic necessities. It's now time to really take note of those still defending it. You can't trust them and they made it clear that they will be an enemy when **** hits the fan again.

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I agree no one should be forced to take it. I was just confused by the animosity and derision towards people who have made the decision to take it, get boosted etc. I'm in my 30s and my doc said it would probably help if I eventually got Covid so I took it. Ended up finally getting Covid last year and was only sick for about a day, which could have been the vaccine or it could have been how I would have always reacted to it, who knows.

100% onboard with that animosity being directed towards anyone who forced someone to get it though.

Normal phase 3 clinical trials have around 3,000 people. The mRNA vaccine phase 3 had around 40,000. The adverse reactions were nearly identical to the placebo group.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Your confidence seems really poorly calibrated here.

People can make their own choice. The only ones I laugh about are the fats that get the shot but won't lose weight. They obviously don't understand health.

Zobel said:

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Normal phase 3 clinical trials have around 3,000 people. The mRNA vaccine phase 3 had around 40,000. The adverse reactions were nearly identical to the placebo group.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Your confidence seems really poorly calibrated here.

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The Pfizer mRNA vaccine group experienced 23% more deaths than the placebo group. That seems bad.

Add to that the Pfizer trial did not account for decreasing vaccine effectiveness at all. Otherwise, their 95% efficacy would have been closer to 74% efficacy (in the over 65s).

Zobel said:

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You think you'd get tired of being blatantly wrong. There were two deaths in the Pfizer vaccine group, and four in the placebo group.

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Not according to the EUA.


https://www.fda.gov/media/153947/download

Ahh outside of trial window. Ok. Yup.

Anyway, I'm over this convo. Have a good one.

Zobel said:

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Ahh outside of trial window. Ok. Yup.

Anyway, I'm over this convo. Have a good one.

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[If you're going to be disrespectful to other posters, then take a break -- Staff]

RWWilson said:

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Zobel said:

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Normal phase 3 clinical trials have around 3,000 people. The mRNA vaccine phase 3 had around 40,000. The adverse reactions were nearly identical to the placebo group.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Your confidence seems really poorly calibrated here.

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The Pfizer mRNA vaccine group experienced 23% more deaths than the placebo group. That seems bad.

Add to that the Pfizer trial did not account for decreasing vaccine effectiveness at all. Otherwise, their 95% efficacy would have been closer to 74% efficacy (in the over 65s).

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Of course he linked those trials. Just look at the conclusion alone, 95% effective. Those trials were so incredibly flawed that they were literally falsified in order to get approved for EUA status. Once they were approved, the CDC almost immediately put up slightly more accurate numbers putting its efficacy in the 78% range. (It's now in the low to high 60's depending on variant)

A lot of people made a lot of money with those inflated numbers. Good for them. Their scare tactic marketing worked!

RWWilson said:

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Zobel said:

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Normal phase 3 clinical trials have around 3,000 people. The mRNA vaccine phase 3 had around 40,000. The adverse reactions were nearly identical to the placebo group.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Your confidence seems really poorly calibrated here.

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The Pfizer mRNA vaccine group experienced 23% more deaths than the placebo group. That seems bad.

Add to that the Pfizer trial did not account for decreasing vaccine effectiveness at all. Otherwise, their 95% efficacy would have been closer to 74% efficacy (in the over 65s).

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And, an important note regarding how fatally flawed those phase 3 trials were… they lasted a few months. Every other phase 3 trial alone is typically anywhere from 2-4 years long. They're tried to make up for it by pumping numbers up (and plenty of evidence that the total number was only around 10k, but that's another convo).

They just repeat their new god, Lord Fauci's, teachings. All hail.

Are we still operating under an emergency use authorization?

captkirk said:

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The dam is breaking pic.twitter.com/7uWKTO6q8x

— Tayl0r Day (@TABYTCHII) January 9, 2023

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Wow, this would appear to be heresy in today's Clown World.

I can't believe that there are college-educated people that still tout the WAV "vax"*. Especially for something as weak as COVID was.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Are we still operating under an emergency use authorization?

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Yes

stetson said:

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captkirk said:

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The dam is breaking pic.twitter.com/7uWKTO6q8x

— Tayl0r Day (@TABYTCHII) January 9, 2023

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Wow, this would appear to be heresy in today's Clown World.

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Is this for real?

What have you people done?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22010283

This is one in the news lately, not msm mind you, but people are discussing Dr. Fraimans peer reviewed study in detail. It studies the very phase 3 trials mentioned above and the conclusions are vastly different than what those trials claimed. There are more data now, so he's is in the process of taking this study further, and there are beginning to be many other studies coming out with the updated data. More damning proof that those trials were a complete farce.

You realize this is the same paper we discussed a few posts above right? The one with the p-hacking, and apples and oranges comparison?

Further info.

Remember the preprint that claimed COVID vaccines caused significant adverse effects, beloved by contrarians? Well it's now been published in an @ElsevierConnect journal - it *really* shouldn't have been, as it remains hot flaming garbage. Here's why...

STRAP IN, IT'S GRIM.. 🧵 pic.twitter.com/Us4eNqJbVP

— Dr David Robert Grimes (@drg1985) September 2, 2022

Quote:

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Former Barbe football player Hunter Brown has died.

The U.S. Air Force Academy, where Brown, 21, was a Cadet 3rd Class and football player, announced his death Tuesday afternoon.

Brown suffered a medical emergency Monday morning while leaving his dorm on the way to class, according to the Air Force Academy. First responders were called and attempted life-saving measures.

"With heavy hearts we share the loss of a cadet," the Academy posted on Twitter. "C3C Hunter Brown died Monday after suffering a medical emergency while on his way to class. Our thoughts are with his family, friends, teammates and fellow cadets."

Brown was assigned to Cadet Squadron 16 and was pursuing a major in management, and a minor in French. Brown was part of back-to-back winning seasons in 2021 and 2022 with Falcon football. Brown graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy Preparatory School in May 2021.

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https://www.kplctv.com/2023/01/10/former-barbe-football-player-dies/

I was called trash on the premium board for asking this same question.

After 13 pages of speculation of what happened, my asking last vax date was first berated and then removed.

Absolutely ****ing ridiculous

Some people just won't except the facts. They'll carry the water until the very end.

Woods Ag said:

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I was called trash on the premium board for asking this same question.

After 13 pages of speculation of what happened, my asking last vax date was first berated and then removed.

Absolutely ****ing ridiculous

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It's that way everywhere, but Premium and F84 are the worst. At least here is can be discussed, even though the Covidians try to swarm and shout down everyone who isn't onboard with endless shots or thinks there is risk.

I'm convinced any Covidians that are left are actually just trolling everyone and they're really good at it

Talked to somebody this afternoon that took his kid to a pediatrician for a sports physical. Doc said wouldn't sign off on a sports physical for kids that have been vaccinated.