Another Sully Protest?

46,115 Views | 423 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by erudite
Fightin TX Aggie
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Do you know who in Texas (the state) and who at Texas A&M has ever heard of the woodpecker dispute? Like maybe .00000005 percent?

You're talking about an obscure regional event in history that remains in dispute and asking us to judge a long dead man's heart over it, when no one even cares to try to figure it out.

Why?

Because no one celebrates Ross over woodpeckers.

He's celebrated because he saved the university and was really great to the students. That's it. That's the heart of it.
BusterAg
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Pease said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
You have a link for this? Interesting take. I'm interested in source documents.

Check here to start...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaybird%E2%80%93Woodpecker_War





Oh. I thought you had access to some actual historical documents as opposed to the hack job on wikipedia.

I'm more interested in newspaper clippings from the time. They are much more reliable, as anyone can edit wikipedia, and blog posts written about articles at the time can have authors that have an agenda.
I'm not going to dig up historic newspaper sources for you. It's not like the facts are in dispute by anyone.
Try here...

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01

"Governor Ross remained in Richmond several days to act as mediator. A complete reorganization of county government resulted in the removal or resignation of all Woodpecker officials and the selection of Jaybirds or persons acceptable to the Jaybirds to fill the offices. After a turbulent era of more than twenty years, the white citizenry once more controlled the government.

A mass meeting was held at Richmond on October 3, 1889, to form a permanent organization to maintain white control. It passed a resolution to appoint a committee to draft a constitution for an association of the white people of Fort Bend County to control county affairs. A second meeting on October 22, 1899, organized the Jaybird Democratic Organization of Fort Bend County. Four hundred and forty-one white men signed the membership roll. The organization played the dominant role in Fort Bend County politics for the next seventy years."

Let me know if you find any documents that contradict this set of facts...
You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right? Maybe she had a certain viewpoint on the matter?

Or does viewpoint not matter to you?
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
BoerneGator
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BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
You have a link for this? Interesting take. I'm interested in source documents.

Check here to start...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaybird%E2%80%93Woodpecker_War





Oh. I thought you had access to some actual historical documents as opposed to the hack job on wikipedia.

I'm more interested in newspaper clippings from the time. They are much more reliable, as anyone can edit wikipedia, and blog posts written about articles at the time can have authors that have an agenda.
I'm not going to dig up historic newspaper sources for you. It's not like the facts are in dispute by anyone.
Try here...

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01

"Governor Ross remained in Richmond several days to act as mediator. A complete reorganization of county government resulted in the removal or resignation of all Woodpecker officials and the selection of Jaybirds or persons acceptable to the Jaybirds to fill the offices. After a turbulent era of more than twenty years, the white citizenry once more controlled the government.

A mass meeting was held at Richmond on October 3, 1889, to form a permanent organization to maintain white control. It passed a resolution to appoint a committee to draft a constitution for an association of the white people of Fort Bend County to control county affairs. A second meeting on October 22, 1899, organized the Jaybird Democratic Organization of Fort Bend County. Four hundred and forty-one white men signed the membership roll. The organization played the dominant role in Fort Bend County politics for the next seventy years."

Let me know if you find any documents that contradict this set of facts...
You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right? Maybe she had a certain viewpoint on the matter?

Or does viewpoint not matter to you?
Everyone has a viewpoint, do they not? Do you take issue with hers? If so, wanna share it?
TarponChaser
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NM
BusterAg
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BoerneGator said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
You have a link for this? Interesting take. I'm interested in source documents.

Check here to start...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaybird%E2%80%93Woodpecker_War





Oh. I thought you had access to some actual historical documents as opposed to the hack job on wikipedia.

I'm more interested in newspaper clippings from the time. They are much more reliable, as anyone can edit wikipedia, and blog posts written about articles at the time can have authors that have an agenda.
I'm not going to dig up historic newspaper sources for you. It's not like the facts are in dispute by anyone.
Try here...

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01

"Governor Ross remained in Richmond several days to act as mediator. A complete reorganization of county government resulted in the removal or resignation of all Woodpecker officials and the selection of Jaybirds or persons acceptable to the Jaybirds to fill the offices. After a turbulent era of more than twenty years, the white citizenry once more controlled the government.

A mass meeting was held at Richmond on October 3, 1889, to form a permanent organization to maintain white control. It passed a resolution to appoint a committee to draft a constitution for an association of the white people of Fort Bend County to control county affairs. A second meeting on October 22, 1899, organized the Jaybird Democratic Organization of Fort Bend County. Four hundred and forty-one white men signed the membership roll. The organization played the dominant role in Fort Bend County politics for the next seventy years."

Let me know if you find any documents that contradict this set of facts...
You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right? Maybe she had a certain viewpoint on the matter?

Or does viewpoint not matter to you?
Everyone has a viewpoint, do they not? Do you take issue with hers? If so, wanna share it?


I'll have to go to the library this weekend and look up some key sources. A thesis paper from Rice about the Woodpecker Jaybird incedent said that Ross reluctantly accepted the results of a meeting that happened when all of the politicians that took part in the fighting were kicked out.

That's much different than Ross selecting all the new politicians. I'm still looking for primary sources about what actually happened, but there are none online.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
CanyonAg77
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Quote:

You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right?
Link?
BoerneGator
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BusterAg said:

BoerneGator said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
You have a link for this? Interesting take. I'm interested in source documents.

Check here to start...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaybird%E2%80%93Woodpecker_War





Oh. I thought you had access to some actual historical documents as opposed to the hack job on wikipedia.

I'm more interested in newspaper clippings from the time. They are much more reliable, as anyone can edit wikipedia, and blog posts written about articles at the time can have authors that have an agenda.
I'm not going to dig up historic newspaper sources for you. It's not like the facts are in dispute by anyone.
Try here...

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01

"Governor Ross remained in Richmond several days to act as mediator. A complete reorganization of county government resulted in the removal or resignation of all Woodpecker officials and the selection of Jaybirds or persons acceptable to the Jaybirds to fill the offices. After a turbulent era of more than twenty years, the white citizenry once more controlled the government.

A mass meeting was held at Richmond on October 3, 1889, to form a permanent organization to maintain white control. It passed a resolution to appoint a committee to draft a constitution for an association of the white people of Fort Bend County to control county affairs. A second meeting on October 22, 1899, organized the Jaybird Democratic Organization of Fort Bend County. Four hundred and forty-one white men signed the membership roll. The organization played the dominant role in Fort Bend County politics for the next seventy years."

Let me know if you find any documents that contradict this set of facts...
You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right? Maybe she had a certain viewpoint on the matter?

Or does viewpoint not matter to you?
Everyone has a viewpoint, do they not? Do you take issue with hers? If so, wanna share it?


I'll have to go to the library this weekend and look up some key sources. A thesis paper from Rice about the Woodpecker Jaybird incedent said that Ross reluctantly accepted the results of a meeting that happened when all of the politicians that took part in the fighting were kicked out.

That's much different than Ross selecting all the new politicians. I'm still looking for primary sources about what actually happened, but there are none online.
But what is your issue with the quote, or that person's point of view? Surely you needn't research what prompted you to point it out?
BusterAg
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CanyonAg77 said:

Quote:

You do realize that you are quoting one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, right?
Link?
I don't have a definitive link. Secondary information.

Here is some support:

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/yatron-yontes.html:

Quote:


Yelderman, Pauline of Rosenberg, Fort Bend County, Tex. Democrat. Alternate delegate to Democratic National Convention from Texas, 1940, 1948. Female. Presumed deceased. Burial location unknown.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Monument-sits-in-shadows-of-Richmond-s-historical-11882539.php
Quote:

Yelderman, the local author, described the Jaybirds as "courageous and determined white men whose efforts brought honest and decent government to Fort Bend County." Her 1979 book includes details provided by local residents, newspaper clippings and records.

Associating Ross's name with the new government does nothing but lend legitimacy to it. Yelderman had an agenda when she wrote the book that wikipedia quotes.

Here is a link to the Rice paper: https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/13861

The quote here was :
Quote:

Immediately after the riot Governor L.S.Ross along with a company of Texas Rangers quickly traveled to Richmond to reassert some semblance of order, but he acquiesced in what must have been a fairly illegal forced removal of almost every elected official in Fort Bend County.
The paper cites three newspaper articles written during the time period.

"Acquiescing" to a coup-d'etat by white supremacists certainly isn't a good look, but it is nothing like what Yelderman says. It would have been much better, by 2020's moral standards, if he would have forced open and fair elections again. But, Ross was there to keep the peace, and that was unarguably his primary priority, and the last free election resulted in a deadly riot. Of course, the result of the coup was a disgusting violation of the constitution that disenfranchised black people for decades, but it's wrong to pin the results of the coup on Ross without further information, unless you are just try to confirm your own opinion.

The extent of Ross's involvement is still an open issue for me, I haven't read enough contemporary sources to come to a conclusion on what he actually did besides cool tempers, and put a lot of murderers in jail. That murkuyness of what actually happened needs to be considered in light of all of the rest of the good that Ross did that is clearly on record. If anyone can point to some contemporary articles, I would love to see them.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
CanyonAg77
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It was a TSHA article, not Wiki

Pretty broad brush to assume her leanings.
BusterAg
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Did you read that quote from her above?

I'm not just basing this just on the information above, but I don't have any other sources to link.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
BusterAg
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A librarian pointed me to an interesting paper. It's important enough to start another thread.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
CanyonAg77
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BusterAg said:

Did you read that quote from her above?

I'm not just basing this just on the information above, but I don't have any other sources to link.
The "woodpeckers" were white men, too.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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PabloSerna said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Quote:

For me, this really should be about US - Aggies. Past, current, and future.
There would have been no Aggies past about 1892, if there were no Sul Ross.

But you know this, you're just looking to be offended.
Textbook example - it is impossible to know. However, you are willing to defend a hunk of metal and stone to the end - is that a correct understanding?

I gave you my answer for relocating - is your reason because no one did more for TAMU than he? Yet here we are a public institution using public money. Your money and mine correct? Do I have any say in how my taxes are spent?

You don't know me - best to keep it between the lines. For the record, I'm not easily offended.

+Pablo

You need some time off .
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
Tanya 93
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Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others

bmks270
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Tanya 93 said:

Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others




Kindness is an investment.
-Jim Rohn


And my added take is that unkindness is a liability.
Charpie
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I wish I could see her tweets
End Of Message
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Tanya 93 said:

Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others


I dont believe that she will leave.

She wants the heat off of her and throwing more lies out there.
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
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third coast.. said:

Said elsewhere in thisbhtread she is no longer in the student directory. I have not verified that info.
If that is the case, then I bet she was expelled.
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
End Of Message
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https://sbs.tamu.edu/billing-payments/withdrawing/
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
BusterAg
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Pease said:

BusterAg said:

Pease said:

BusterAg said:

UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
You have a link for this? Interesting take. I'm interested in source documents.

Check here to start...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaybird%E2%80%93Woodpecker_War





Oh. I thought you had access to some actual historical documents as opposed to the hack job on wikipedia.

I'm more interested in newspaper clippings from the time. They are much more reliable, as anyone can edit wikipedia, and blog posts written about articles at the time can have authors that have an agenda.
I'm not going to dig up historic newspaper sources for you. It's not like the facts are in dispute by anyone.
Try here...

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01

"Governor Ross remained in Richmond several days to act as mediator. A complete reorganization of county government resulted in the removal or resignation of all Woodpecker officials and the selection of Jaybirds or persons acceptable to the Jaybirds to fill the offices. After a turbulent era of more than twenty years, the white citizenry once more controlled the government.

A mass meeting was held at Richmond on October 3, 1889, to form a permanent organization to maintain white control. It passed a resolution to appoint a committee to draft a constitution for an association of the white people of Fort Bend County to control county affairs. A second meeting on October 22, 1899, organized the Jaybird Democratic Organization of Fort Bend County. Four hundred and forty-one white men signed the membership roll. The organization played the dominant role in Fort Bend County politics for the next seventy years."

Let me know if you find any documents that contradict this set of facts...
Yeah, so that was completely biased. Check out my thread about it if you have any questions.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
BusterAg
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UniqueIGN said:

I mean, he quite literally forced black people out of office in Fort Bend county and gave the office to all white people who made it illegal to run for office if youre black in that county. So I would not call him an ally.
This is not correct.

He was completely an ally.

He always sent in troops to calm down racial riots, but he didn't get involved in county elections.

Here is the thread that talks about what happened in more detail: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3123902

Here is a working paper that shows Sully was a respected fighter for justice for blacks while he was a governor, and well respected by the black community during that time: https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:11449434-b6c7-4025-a3b4-f4363988d91f

So, sorry, but your narrative is a lie.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
Mr. Potato Head
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

Do you know who in Texas (the state) and who at Texas A&M has ever heard of the woodpecker dispute? Like maybe .00000005 percent?

You're talking about an obscure regional event in history that remains in dispute and asking us to judge a long dead man's heart over it, when no one even cares to try to figure it out.

Why?

Because no one celebrates Ross over woodpeckers.

He's celebrated because he saved the university and was really great to the students. That's it. That's the heart of it.
End Of Message
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Thank you, Buster, for the staggering amount of unbiased research.
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
Ragoo
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Tanya 93 said:

Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others


it doesn't feel like home for she is not an Aggie. From the outside looking in and such.
Trucker 96
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GTFO ****
GT_Aggie2015
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SIAP: Someone needs to make a sign with this history lesson!

Deleting original link with a phone number as the screenshots are below. I am not Hector btw. Saw this on FB earlier tonight.
HalifaxAg
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Tanya 93 said:

Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others


Wait, does this mean my cheesecake business has fewer competitors now?
4stringAg
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Tanya 93 said:

Someone is really gone


Whining despite she did the same crap to others. Multiple others




Yep. Got a taste of her own medicine. Victimhood is so unbecoming.
Ragoo
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GT_Aggie2015 said:

SIAP: Someone needs to make a sign with this history lesson!

https://cdn.fbsbx.com/v/t59.2708-21/107608040_714071659384597_5948590943774111337_n.docx/Ltr-to-Sharp-Regarding-Monds-Confederate-Ancestors.docx?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=0cab14&_nc_ohc=2iipo_IqkPcAX8UfgnV&_nc_ht=cdn.fbsbx.com&oh=50af27b3ebef72f3f67e37c7e205da59&oe=5F0AA15E&dl=1&fbclid=IwAR1Fx5BeyblfHNiW4GH3JPpVeKyUxDqRmrIlbuNK3loJh1lL5O86JtuRohQ
wowzer
P.H. Dexippus
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This guy is my hero



As an aside, what an awesome family legacy to have. And I wish I knew half as much about my family tree as is outlined here.
88planoAg
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OMG who is going to tell Mond (assuming he doesn't know)? Better yet, who is going to tell the anti-Sully organizers??
DallasAg 94
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Ranch Dressing
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Wow
 
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