jrico2727 said:

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Joe Boudain said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Macarthur said:

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Rocag said:

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I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

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jrico2727 said:

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This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

kurt vonnegut said:

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Joe Boudain said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Quote:

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People always respect a man who is jacked more than they do a fat body or skinny guy so if you want people to listen to you then you better get into the gym and do more than cardio.

---

People don't respect a person because of what their body looks like. Respect comes from what kind of person you are.

Give me a Fred Rogers over some jacked misogynist who thinks muscles = respect any day of the week.

---

The most masculine person to ever exist was Jesus Christ, and his sacrifice set the tone for how all men are to behave. Bodybuilding is a sacrifice, it takes hard work, and dedication. Being a slob is easy, being a glutton is easy, being in shape and pushing the limits of your body takes work.

That's why we box, that's why we lift, that's why we read, that's why we pray. Mens sana en corpore sano. Better yourself spiritually, mentally, and phyiscally.

---

I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've sorta presented a false dichotomy here: Either you engage in the sacrifice of body building or you are a lazy slob. There are other forms of sacrifice. People that put in long hours for work are making a sacrifice. Working 10 hour shifts and then going to night school is a sacrifice. I think anyone that has ever been a serious athlete of any kind would argue that that sports takes sacrifice, pain, hardwork, dedication, and pushing. Is there something unique about the sacrifice of bodybuilding that makes it special?

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Joe Boudain said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

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I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

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Depends on the reason they're marginalized doesn't it? Kind of cuts to the whole impossibility of moral relativism.

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Well Our Lord worked side by side with St Joseph until He was 30, so I'd say He put in quite a bit of time in the trade.

Also keep in mind that the Greek word used to describe the profession is "tekton" and indicates that they would have worked with stone and other materials as well. More of a general craftsman.

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Joe Boudain said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've sorta presented a false dichotomy here: Either you engage in the sacrifice of body building or you are a lazy slob. There are other forms of sacrifice. People that put in long hours for work are making a sacrifice. Working 10 hour shifts and then going to night school is a sacrifice. I think anyone that has ever been a serious athlete of any kind would argue that that sports takes sacrifice, pain, hardwork, dedication, and pushing. Is there something unique about the sacrifice of bodybuilding that makes it special?

---

How did you possibly get that from what we said? I mentioned spiritual labor, mental labor, and phyiscal labor, I mentioned physical last for a reason. The three are not mutually exclusive, each one affects the other.

By body building we aren't talking necessarily about competition bodybuilding, but actually building your body. Improving your phsyical fitness and health. We aren't posing in g-strings.

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Joe Boudain said:

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jrico2727 said:

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This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

Exactly

Tell people you like to watch porn and smoke weed and they'll think you're normal. Tell them you like to lift weights and go to daily mass and they'll think you're a freak.

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Joe Boudain said:

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Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

---

Depends on the reason they're marginalized doesn't it? Kind of cuts to the whole impossibility of moral relativism.

---

Impossibility? You're engaged with it every day. Every religion and society is built on a morally relativistic scale. Slavery was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Segregation was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Giving women no independent rights was Biblical until it wasn't.

---

Yes, impossibility. The reasons you mentioned point towards an objective scale by which things can be measured on. It wasn't that slavery was okay, it's just that blacks were property and not people, according to the slave holders. Murder wasn't okay in Nazi Germany, it's just that the jews were subhuman and those rules didn't apply to them.

That's the entire point of propaganda, trying to make caveats to what people know to be objectively true. Look at abortion for example, "okay, it's wrong to kill children, but what if we call it 'terminating' and instead of 'unborn child' we call it a 'tissue mass' or 'fetus'"

---

jrico2727 said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Well Our Lord worked side by side with St Joseph until He was 30, so I'd say He put in quite a bit of time in the trade.

Also keep in mind that the Greek word used to describe the profession is "tekton" and indicates that they would have worked with stone and other materials as well. More of a general craftsman.

---

He never really talks about building stuff. Makes me wonder if he was kind of bad at the job. Like, if he screwed up an order leading Joseph to sort of hint, "Hey, you're a good public speaker. Not everyone is cut out for carpentry."

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This is pathetic. I truly hope you can come to grip with whatever sin or malformed belief that drove you from the faith. Your contempt for the Lord and his Church are sad.

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Sapper Redux said:

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Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

---

Depends on the reason they're marginalized doesn't it? Kind of cuts to the whole impossibility of moral relativism.

---

Impossibility? You're engaged with it every day. Every religion and society is built on a morally relativistic scale. Slavery was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Segregation was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Giving women no independent rights was Biblical until it wasn't.

---

Yes, impossibility. The reasons you mentioned point towards an objective scale by which things can be measured on. It wasn't that slavery was okay, it's just that blacks were property and not people, according to the slave holders. Murder wasn't okay in Nazi Germany, it's just that the jews were subhuman and those rules didn't apply to them.

That's the entire point of propaganda, trying to make caveats to what people know to be objectively true. Look at abortion for example, "okay, it's wrong to kill children, but what if we call it 'terminating' and instead of 'unborn child' we call it a 'tissue mass' or 'fetus'"

---

"Objectively true." Okay. You just demonstrated my point. The arguments and justifications have happened for all of human history and still do. The Church justified auto de fes using the same Bible and the same Church fathers they use to denounce capital punishment today.

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jrico2727 said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

jrico2727 said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

Yes, that's it. The changes certainly don't stem from a society in Europe and the US that suffered from hideous wars, mass murder, and mass injustice through the prior centuries and decided it wanted something better.

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You will know them by their fruits

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Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

---

Depends on the reason they're marginalized doesn't it? Kind of cuts to the whole impossibility of moral relativism.

---

Impossibility? You're engaged with it every day. Every religion and society is built on a morally relativistic scale. Slavery was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Segregation was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Giving women no independent rights was Biblical until it wasn't.

---

Yes, impossibility. The reasons you mentioned point towards an objective scale by which things can be measured on. It wasn't that slavery was okay, it's just that blacks were property and not people, according to the slave holders. Murder wasn't okay in Nazi Germany, it's just that the jews were subhuman and those rules didn't apply to them.

That's the entire point of propaganda, trying to make caveats to what people know to be objectively true. Look at abortion for example, "okay, it's wrong to kill children, but what if we call it 'terminating' and instead of 'unborn child' we call it a 'tissue mass' or 'fetus'"

---

"Objectively true." Okay. You just demonstrated my point. The arguments and justifications have happened for all of human history and still do. The Church justified auto de fes using the same Bible and the same Church fathers they use to denounce capital punishment today.

---

What kind of point are you trying to make? You can't be trying to make the point that they were wrong, because such a thing doesn't exist. I'm able to point at behavior and say that it is wrong because such a thing does exist.

Everyone knows certain behavior is wrong, they just create new classes of people who the rules don't apply for. Infidels, Heretics, Jews, Slaves, Women, Gays, Christians, Gaijin, etc etc

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

jrico2727 said:

---

This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

Exactly

Tell people you like to watch porn and smoke weed and they'll think you're normal. Tell them you like to lift weights and go to daily mass and they'll think you're a freak.

---

How do you feel about people that watch porn and smoke weed. Do you consider them normal or freaks?

---

I consider them both if that makes sense. They're the norm as everyone else is doing it, they're freaks because it's completely disjointed from reality and a healthy lifestyle.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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People always respect a man who is jacked more than they do a fat body or skinny guy so if you want people to listen to you then you better get into the gym and do more than cardio.

---

Does it depend on who you want to listen to you? It is likely that those who value the superficial may be more likely to listen to someone that is jacked. But are those that are less superficial likely to listen to you any more? For me personally, If I need to hire an engineer, lawyer, financial consultant, doctor, scientist, or any other expert, I kinda don't care how jacked they are. Being jacked doesn't make someone more worth listening to. If I need to hire someone to move my washing machine, then yeah, I want the jacked guy.

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Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Quote:

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People always respect a man who is jacked more than they do a fat body or skinny guy so if you want people to listen to you then you better get into the gym and do more than cardio.

---

People don't respect a person because of what their body looks like. Respect comes from what kind of person you are.

Give me a Fred Rogers over some jacked misogynist who thinks muscles = respect any day of the week.

---

The most masculine person to ever exist was Jesus Christ, and his sacrifice set the tone for how all men are to behave. Bodybuilding is a sacrifice, it takes hard work, and dedication. Being a slob is easy, being a glutton is easy, being in shape and pushing the limits of your body takes work.

That's why we box, that's why we lift, that's why we read, that's why we pray. Mens sana en corpore sano. Better yourself spiritually, mentally, and phyiscally.

---

I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've sorta presented a false dichotomy here: Either you engage in the sacrifice of body building or you are a lazy slob. There are other forms of sacrifice. People that put in long hours for work are making a sacrifice. Working 10 hour shifts and then going to night school is a sacrifice. I think anyone that has ever been a serious athlete of any kind would argue that that sports takes sacrifice, pain, hardwork, dedication, and pushing. Is there something unique about the sacrifice of bodybuilding that makes it special?

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

Rocag said:

---

I'm starting to suspect that OP's Christianity is the most normal part of his belief system. I'm curious why you were an atheist in the first place but doubt it was for the same reasons I am.

And I continue to doubt that the explicit ties between Christianity and right wing politics has actually benefited Christianity. For every person like the OP who is drawn to Christianity that might not have been otherwise, how many others are pushed away?

---

Boy, you are not kidding. Wow.

I would not go so far as to say this is the nuttiest thread ever on the R&P, but I think it's right up there. Do you guys seriously not see where this looks and sounds completely BSC?

---

A socially conservative Christian who loves to workout and views the elites and the left as agents of Satan, yeah sounds nutty to me.

---

They want you watching porn, buying things you don't need, eating high fructose corn syrup, and doing drugs. You're much easier to control that way.

It's a weird world we live in. The cool guys are watching Star Wars and Marvel Comic views, the Nerds are lifting weights and reading esoteric poetry.

---

No one would care if your worldview didn't include a desire to control others and return marginalized people back to the shadows.

---

Depends on the reason they're marginalized doesn't it? Kind of cuts to the whole impossibility of moral relativism.

---

Impossibility? You're engaged with it every day. Every religion and society is built on a morally relativistic scale. Slavery was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Segregation was pro-Christian until it wasn't. Giving women no independent rights was Biblical until it wasn't.

---

Yes, impossibility. The reasons you mentioned point towards an objective scale by which things can be measured on. It wasn't that slavery was okay, it's just that blacks were property and not people, according to the slave holders. Murder wasn't okay in Nazi Germany, it's just that the jews were subhuman and those rules didn't apply to them.

That's the entire point of propaganda, trying to make caveats to what people know to be objectively true. Look at abortion for example, "okay, it's wrong to kill children, but what if we call it 'terminating' and instead of 'unborn child' we call it a 'tissue mass' or 'fetus'"

---

"Objectively true." Okay. You just demonstrated my point. The arguments and justifications have happened for all of human history and still do. The Church justified auto de fes using the same Bible and the same Church fathers they use to denounce capital punishment today.

---

What kind of point are you trying to make? You can't be trying to make the point that they were wrong, because such a thing doesn't exist. I'm able to point at behavior and say that it is wrong because such a thing does exist.

Everyone knows certain behavior is wrong, they just create new classes of people who the rules don't apply for. Infidels, Heretics, Jews, Slaves, Women, Gays, Christians, Gaijin, etc etc

---

You claim objective morality but can't point to one period in history where this objective reality was manifest.

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jrico2727 said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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jrico2727 said:

---

This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

I think it depends on how to define masculine. If this guy is the model of what it means to be masculine, then yes, masculinity is being defined as toxic in our times.

---

Ogre is more of the deformed view of masculinity he is strong but aggressive and a drunk. He is totally controlled by his passions.

True masculinity is strength and virtue.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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Joe Boudain said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

jrico2727 said:

---

This

Masculinity is defined as toxic in our times, however as society becomes more and more effeminate we are seeing a complete collapse of morals, the family, and eventually western society.

---

Exactly

Tell people you like to watch porn and smoke weed and they'll think you're normal. Tell them you like to lift weights and go to daily mass and they'll think you're a freak.

---

How do you feel about people that watch porn and smoke weed. Do you consider them normal or freaks?

---

I consider them both if that makes sense. They're the norm as everyone else is doing it, they're freaks because it's completely disjointed from reality and a healthy lifestyle.

---

It seems to me that you are frustrated that some people consider your lifestyle freakish? But, you also find many of their lifestyle choices to be freakish? Am I correct so far? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

---

Quote:

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Toxic masculinity is an exaggerated form of masculinity that shames men for deviating from the norm. It promotes aggression, arrogance, lack of emotion (other than dominance and anger), sexism, homophobia, bullying, etc.

One way toxic masculinity damaged me was it fed me the lie that real men don't show emotion and anyone who does is a p***y. It led me and many others like me to suppress very real emotions to the point where it damaged my mental health. Also the notion of some men that they are too tough to (fill in the blank) or whatever. It's both insecure and an unmerited sense of arrogance.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Have you ever seen a tiny carpenter who was out of shape? I know I haven't. It's very labor intensive work, especially in that era where all of their tools required physical strength and endurance.

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How much time did Jesus spend in the trade? I mean, I'm sure he could make a fine table. . . . but lets not pretend that the prevailing opinion is that he spent 16 hour days in the shop.

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