Peeps vs the juice

73,174 Views | 597 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Jimmy McNulty
95_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Maybe I am not comprehending what they will portray, will it be crimes committed during the disaster or will be the disaster itself as a crime.

I am pretty sure this is your answer:

quote:
Murphy, for his part, added: "I want this show to be a socially conscious, socially aware examination of different types of crime around the world. And in my opinion, Katrina was a fing crime a crime against a lot of people who didn't have a strong voice, and we're going to treat it as a crime. That's what this show is all about."


MelvinUdall
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
quote:
Maybe I am not comprehending what they will portray, will it be crimes committed during the disaster or will be the disaster itself as a crime.

I am pretty sure this is your answer:

quote:
Murphy, for his part, added: "I want this show to be a socially conscious, socially aware examination of different types of crime around the world. And in my opinion, Katrina was a fing crime a crime against a lot of people who didn't have a strong voice, and we're going to treat it as a crime. That's what this show is all about."




Well I see what direction this will go. I am sure they will have a character saying they heard bombs going off at the levee.
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think they will also do a series about the Menendez brothers trial.
agracer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
quote:
What if Jason and OJ killed them together? Does Al Cowlings have an alibi for that time period?

If this is true, or if it was just Jason - then why was there no evidence of Jason's blood at the crime scene? I may have missed something along the way, but wasn't there only three sets of blood at the scene - Nicole's, Ron's and OJ's? I don't remember them saying there was another set of DNA there - even for an unidentified person.
IIRC, there was some un-identified blood and also a set of footprints that could not be tied to anyone who was know to be present at the crime scene.
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The interesting thing about this case was with the exception of Jonny Cochran there were really no winners in this trial at all.

Robert Shapiro came off as a slimy two faced lawyer. Chris Darden had that infamous press conference where he started crying on national television. I think that is one of the reasons that Darden has stayed out of the public eye.

Gil Garcetti and Marcia Clark reputation were damaged because they were the District Attorney's who lost a winnable case by being outclassed on national television by the Defense team. Marcia Clark is just now getting redemption with the release of this show, and being brilliantly portrayed by Sarah Paulson.

OJ became a social Pariah and lost all the fame that he had for over 30 years. The 2002 Orange Bowl is probably the only time that OJ has ever been popular in public.

The LAPD....nothing more needs to be said.
Mark Furhman.....the same.

You had to feel for Detectives Lange and Vanatter. I read a book about the LAPD rampart scandal. It said that a lot of LAPD investigators were afraid of being sucked into a high profile case because they didn't want their name and mistakes broadcasted on television like they did to the detectives and forensic scientist.


Cochran was the only winner.
Johnny Cochran went from being well known in Los Angeles to being World Famous and a pop culture reference.
He actually has a middle school named after him in Los Angeles. LA loves the stars.
https://cochranms-lausd-ca.schoolloop.com/cms/page_view?d=x&piid=&vpid=1305125893204
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
quote:
quote:
What if Jason and OJ killed them together? Does Al Cowlings have an alibi for that time period?

If this is true, or if it was just Jason - then why was there no evidence of Jason's blood at the crime scene? I may have missed something along the way, but wasn't there only three sets of blood at the scene - Nicole's, Ron's and OJ's? I don't remember them saying there was another set of DNA there - even for an unidentified person.
IIRC, there was some un-identified blood and also a set of footprints that could not be tied to anyone who was know to be present at the crime scene.
I've heard this also.
Nobody ever proved who those footprint or blood belonged to.

William Dear think the shoe prints and blood would belong to Jason Simpson, but he was not able to prove this.
Franklin Delano Bluth
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
I think they will also do a series about the Menendez brothers trial.


Hadn't heard that about American Crime Story.....

Law & Order: True Crime is reported to be working on something like this...

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/law-order-true-crime-to-focus-on-menendez-brothers-20160406
MelvinUdall
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I think they will also do a series about the Menendez brothers trial.


Now that would be entertaining.
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm late to the party, but have watched the first six episodes. With the exception of Travolta and Cuba Gooding's voice, everything has been excellent.
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
We'll have to agree to disagree. I strongly believe the message here is that Robert Kardashian as a stand-up guy, while the rest of his family is rich trailer trash. If anything it's one long middle finger at the kids and Kris Jenner.
I feel like this is right. The kids are there to build Robert Kardashian's character. Especially because the trash his kids turned out to be, they needed to show that he was a devout family man, because that probably isn't what you expect from Kim Kardashian's dad who is best friends with a double-murderer.
P.C. Principal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I'm late to the party, but have watched the first six episodes. With the exception of Travolta and Cuba Gooding's voice, everything has been excellent.
I think Travolta had one of the best performances in the whole show. Nathan Lane and Courtney Vance have been awesome as well. Sarah Paulson too. Damn, the whole cast killed it IMO.
H.E. Pennypacker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Kardashian hate is strong. My wife watches their show and Khloe strikes me as a solid person.
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
The Kardashian hate is strong. My wife watches their show and Khloe strikes me as a solid person.
Even though OJ is her real dad?
Know Your Enemy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
quote:
I'm late to the party, but have watched the first six episodes. With the exception of Travolta and Cuba Gooding's voice, everything has been excellent.
I think Travolta had one of the best performances in the whole show. Nathan Lane and Courtney Vance have been awesome as well. Sarah Paulson too. Damn, the whole cast killed it IMO.
To me Travolta was the weakest of the bunch with Cuba Gooding Jr a close second.
jbanda
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You can't be held responsible for who your parents are.
95_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
The interesting thing about this case was with the exception of Jonny Cochran there were really no winners in this trial at all.
and the Kardashians
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm late to the party, but have watched the first six episodes. With the exception of Travolta and Cuba Gooding's voice, everything has been excellent.
I think Travolta had one of the best performances in the whole show. Nathan Lane and Courtney Vance have been awesome as well. Sarah Paulson too. Damn, the whole cast killed it IMO.
To me Travolta was the weakest of the bunch with Cuba Gooding Jr a close second.
Agree completely. Don't think Cuba was a good choice. He is too small and his voice too high. Needed someone bigger with a deeper voice. Cuba's voice almost seems shrill to me at times and that certainly isn't OJ.
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They should have gotten Dobber from Coach and just had him do the show in blackface.
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
quote:
The interesting thing about this case was with the exception of Jonny Cochran there were really no winners in this trial at all.
and the Kardashians

True.
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
It's unfair to say the jury only deliberated 4 hours. They had been sequestered for 8 plus months. Plenty of time to decide what they would vote.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/oj-juror-people-v-oj-simpson-right-and-wrong.html?mid=twitter_vulture

quote:
It seems as if the decision was more about reasonable doubt. But I think people look at this case and don't see reasonable doubt, they see jurors setting a murderer free. What do you think is the biggest misconception about the jurors' role in this whole thing other than race not playing a part?

I think the biggest misconception is they feel we really didn't deliberate. They were upset that it only took us about four hours. Everybody went in thinking it was going to take a couple of weeks. But we took a poll once and it was 102 not guilty. And the two jurors that voted guilty didn't reveal themselves, so they didn't put up an argument as to why they felt he was guilty. Maybe if they had, they could have persuaded some of the other jurors to vote that way. They should have at least voiced their opinion.

Wow, so they didn't even try to
They didn't even reveal who they were. Nuh-uh.

Then the finale stretched the truth with that one, because it definitely showed [Anise Aschenbach] saying she thought O.J. was guilty.
I think she probably did vote guilty. I heard she made a statement on some TV show [about it], but she felt it was probably useless to argue her point.

And you disagree with that.
She should have voiced her opinion. Maybe she could have swayed some of the jurors if she put up a good enough argument. I was open to what they had to say.

Do you think that they were intimidated or nervous?
No, most of those people were very vocal. I think everybody was just tired. They knew we were getting to the end, and everybody wanted to go home. To me, it was a mistake to sequester us for so long. We've been the longest jury in history to be sequestered.

Do you think people underestimate that psychological toll?
They fail to realize, too, that all we had when we went back to our rooms at night I mean, you could have music in your room, I think I had a CD player. But you couldn't watch TV, you could read, but you listen to all this testimony throughout the day, so of course you're going to think about it when you go back to your room. You're not supposed to discuss it with any of the other jurors, so we were constantly reliving and thinking about things. It wasn't like it was going to take us a long time to, you know, think about this trial or come to a decision when it was time to deliberate.

[The lawyers] made it seem like the quick turnaround for the verdict was appalling.
I don't know what people expected. Is there a protocol that jurors have to stay out for a certain number of hours, days, or weeks? If you come to a decision, then why prolong it, especially in our case.
There were a lot of things that we weren't privy to that went on in the courtroom almost as much as we were in the courtroom we were out of the courtroom. We didn't hear a lot of testimony that maybe we should have heard.



Great Interview from one of the jurors. She states exactly what the poster says above. They had been sequestered for 8 months. That was plenty of time for them to figure out if they thought he was innocent or guilty.

I know my opinions are not popular, but I do not think that the Marcia Clark and Chris Darden proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
If I am going to convict someone on a murder charge and send them to Prison for the Rest of their life or even the Death Penalty I need to see at least one of the following:
1. A murder weapon. Preferably in the suspects possession, or with his prints on it.
2. An eye witness
3. A Snitch who rats on the guy that did the crime, or tells the police something that only the killer would know.


The juror brings up some of the exact same questions that I've had about this case for the past 20 years. These things still don't add up for me.


quote:
Was there a moment in particular during the trial that really swayed your decision towards reasonable doubt?
Yeah, when they started talking about the blood evidence. There was, like, a milliliter of blood they couldn't account for. And they found blood on the back fence of Nicole's condo, and that particular blood also had the additive in there. That additive is only found in [a test tube of blood], so why would the blood sample on that back fence contain that additive unless somebody took the blood from the test tube and placed it there?

Do you think O.J. was framed?
I don't know if he was necessarily framed. I think O.J. may know something about what happened, but I just don't think he did it. I think it was more than one person, just because of the way she was killed. I don't know how he could have just left that bloody scene because it was bloody and got back into his Bronco and not have it filled with blood. And then go back home and go in the front door, up the stairs to his bedroom ...

That carpet was snow white in his house. He should have blood all over him or bruises because Ron Goldman was definitely fighting for his life. He had defensive cuts on his shoes and on his hands.
O.J. only had that little cut on his finger. If [Goldman] was kicking to death, you would think that the killer would have gotten some bruises on his body. They showed us photos of O.J. with just his underwear just two days after, and he had no bruises or anything on his body.

Joan Wilder
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sounds like you'd like Serial season 1, Kellso, if you think a snitch's word is a great way to send a guy to prison for life.

Thinking that the prosecution didn't prove its case is a fair opinion. But it doesn't mean he's innocent or Jason did it. . Their criminalist made mistakes and the cop who found a key piece of evidence was a racist. If they didn't call him the defense would have and then it would have looked worse. If he'd just said "I probably have said the n word, I'm ashamed of it, but it had nothing to do with my police work that night. I liked OJ. I covered for him in the past" that bomb could have been defused.

The show's closing arguments were succinct and eloquent, but as I recall both sides went on for hours. The show gave highlights which benefitted the viewers. The jurors endured days of testimony from all these witnesses, broken up by hours or days in rooms away from the court room while motions were argued. They were done by the end.
Joan Wilder
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The "missing blood" had been debunked. The lab tech didn't ever wrote down how much blood was drawn. She just said I usually take around this much. The defense jumped on that and raised doubt. And it doesn't explain how they found OJ's blood at Bundy before he returned from Chicago!!!

The scene was bloody but it got bloodier after the killer left as Nicole bled out 90% of her blood volume by the neck wound, the last wound of the attack.

If you're going to speculate that he should have had more bruises, then you can speculate that maybe he doesn't show bruises well. Many African-Americans don't. He DID have a huge cut on his hand that he couldn't explain. There was no broken glass in his hotel room as he alleged. He changed his story multiple times about that.
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
But if he was wearing those gloves, they didn't have a cut on them that matches his finger cut.
JJxvi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The left glove was left at Bundy, the same cut the hand was on while he took the right away from the scene. Plausible it came off during the struggle before the cut.

Just watched the episode. What was up with the overbearing use of the color green in the courtroom. It is bathed in green light.
Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Sounds like you'd like Serial season 1, Kellso, if you think a snitch's word is a great way to send a guy to prison for life.

Thinking that the prosecution didn't prove its case is a fair opinion. But it doesn't mean he's innocent or Jason did it. . Their criminalist made mistakes and the cop who found a key piece of evidence was a racist. If they didn't call him the defense would have and then it would have looked worse. If he'd just said "I probably have said the n word, I'm ashamed of it, but it had nothing to do with my police work that night. I liked OJ. I covered for him in the past" that bomb could have been defused.

The show's closing arguments were succinct and eloquent, but as I recall both sides went on for hours. The show gave highlights which benefitted the viewers. The jurors endured days of testimony from all these witnesses, broken up by hours or days in rooms away from the court room while motions were argued. They were done by the end.
Most criminal cases are solved by the use of confidential informants. Most prosecutors will typically plea bargain with a murder suspect if they do not have a witness or murder weapon. The DA's office might not want to take a chance that an OJ like acquittal could happen.


IF the perp knows he is guilty it is better to take 40 years with the chance of getting out in 20 years then it is to risk life in prison. Very few people charged with murder will ever have the chance of hiring an attorney the caliber of Johnnie Cochran.

We can all sit here and speculate, but its all just guess work. None of us know what really happened. That is what happens when there are no witnesses and no murder weapon.

The whole idea is that you most convict beyond a reasonable doubt. I have doubts. There are things about this murder that have never made sense to me.

Ronald Goldman was 6-1 and 200 something pounds, and apparently an expert in Tae Kwan Do. He had massive defensive wounds on his hands and feet. The story was always that he put up a great fight before succumbing to his injuries.
OJ should have looked like he got in a fight. I would expect bruises and scratches on him.

The blood is still the thing that I come back to. If OJ killed not one...but two people then he should been covered in blood.. All the blood found in his car and at his property were small drops. Where would he have cleaned all of this blood off?

I think OJ was at the crime scene, but Im not convinced he committed the murder.

If Marcia Clark produces a murder weapon with OJ's prints on it, or has a witness that saw OJ at the crime scene arguing with the deceased......that would have gone a long way in securing a conviction.

I believe that prior behavior can be a predictor of future criminal behavior. Jason Simson was on probation for attacking a former manager with a knife. He had also attacked an ex girlfriend with a knife and cut off her hair.
He was a chef that carried a bag of knives to and from work every day. His father hired a defense attorney for him the day after the murder.
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Lol at anyone that thinks OJ didn't do it
Guitarsoup
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Lol at anyone that thinks OJ didn't do it
Der Fuhrman totes framed OJ, bro.
Joan Wilder
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What about OJ's prior behavior of beating the victim? She placed photos of his abuse in a safe deposit box. Shortly before the murders he went to lawyers to threaten turning her into the IRS. This prior behavior is less relevant to you than the fact Jason owned knives?

The cops never found the murder weapon because he got rid of it, along with the bloody clothes. The duffel bag he carried with him in the car, that he would not allow Park or Kato to touch, didn't come back with him from Chicago.

Kellso, you would have expected OJ to have wounds, yet ignore that he had a massive cut on his hand that he HAD NO EXPLANATION FOR. At the time and even in the civil depositions he couldn't come up with a story to explain that cut.



Kellso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
What about OJ's prior behavior of beating the victim? She placed photos of his abuse in a safe deposit box. Shortly before the murders he went to lawyers to threaten turning her into the IRS. This prior behavior is less relevant to you than the fact Jason owned knives?

The cops never found the murder weapon because he got rid of it, along with the bloody clothes. The duffel bag he carried with him in the car, that he would not allow Park or Kato to touch, didn't come back with him from Chicago.

Kellso, you would have expected OJ to have wounds, yet ignore that he had a massive cut on his hand that he HAD NO EXPLANATION FOR. At the time and even in the civil depositions he couldn't come up with a story to explain that cut.




How many times had OJ ever attacked someone with a knife?
Guys gets into the fights with their wives/girlfriends all the time. That does not necessarily make them murderers. The prosecution made it sound like OJ Simpson was the only guy in the world who ever had an unhealthy relationship with an ex.

Marcia Clark and Chris Darden f**cked this case up, and got beat by a better team of lawyers. For the past 20 years they have used the media to try and shame people into believing their story. They have masterfully used the media to take the focus off of them messing up this case.

If you don't believe their story of what happened then you are an idiot who sides with wife beaters.

Marcia Clark made this case about domestic abuse. OJ beat and stalked Nicole and because of that this makes him a double murderer. I don't necessarily buy that. I personally know people in toxic relationships very similar to OJ and Nicole. Especially party people who do cocaine and get around a lot.

To answer your questions:
The fact that Jason Simpson was on probation for attacking the manager of the restaurant where he worked with a knife,
- had previously scalped a girlfriend with a knife
-had previously tried to choke another girlfriend to death
- carried knives with him everyday to and from work
-Had been stood up by Nicole the night of the murders.

Yes. That is more relevant than OJ Simpson prior behavior of abuse.
Know Your Enemy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Last night I stumbled across a Howard Stern interview with Christopher Darden back in 1996, I think it was. It was interesting to hear but nothing too ground breaking. But it was funny to hear him multiple times dodge the direct questions about banging Marcia Clark.
Joan Wilder
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And yet none of Jason's DNA was found at the crime scene. OJ's was.

Clark and Darden clearly made mistakes. They've owned up to that. They also clearly had a jury who did not trust the LAPD and who did not think domestic violence was a big deal. The judge made a lot more mistakes.

OJ was also snubbed by Nicole the day of the murders. He was also dumped by his girlfriend that day. He had a history of stalking Nicole and reacting violently when she was with other men.

You're not going to convince me, and i'm not going to convince you. To say that women aren't killed by their abusers is naive though. Abusive partners are typically the killers of murdered women
emando2000
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
And yet none of Jason's DNA was found at the crime scene. OJ's was.

Clark and Darden clearly made mistakes. They've owned up to that. They also clearly had a jury who did not trust the LAPD and who did not think domestic violence was a big deal. The judge made a lot more mistakes.

OJ was also snubbed by Nicole the day of the murders. He was also dumped by his girlfriend that day. He had a history of stalking Nicole and reacting violently when she was with other men.

You're not going to convince me, and i'm not going to convince you. To say that women aren't killed by their abusers is naive though. Abusive partners are typically the killers of murdered women

Huh? Broad statement or did you mean to say that of murdered women that were in abusive relationships the majority of the time it was the spouse?

It's a completely different topic but I grew up all around abusive men. None of them actually committed any other crime except for being ****ty boyfriends/spouses. Their confrontations were just with their spouse. They didn't fight other people nor did they ever carry weapons. It was common in my upbringing back then.
JJxvi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This argument is worthless. Is someone going to produce data on how many times or how likely it is that women are murdered by former stepsons?
20ag07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/08/oj-made-america-trailer-espn

Trailer out for 30 for 30s seven hour documentary this summer. Supposed to be excellent, which is generally the case with 30 for 30.
Joan Wilder
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I simply meant that domestic violence is a significant cause of death for women this country, and that in many cases when a woman is murdered, it's the intimate partner who did it.

Not all abusers escalate to killers. And many on the jury share your experiences of growing up around abuse or experiencing it themselves - they expressed they didn't think it was a big deal, or meant that it might mean he could escalate from beating Nicole to murdering her.

Nicole also didn't call a victim's hotline shortly before the murders to express concern about her stepson.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.