Peeps vs the juice

71,426 Views | 597 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Jimmy McNulty
agracer
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AG
quote:
Perhaps she mishandled a slam-dunk case, but the personal attacks she endured was totally uncalled for.
If you watch that video I posted they talk a lot about how the LAPD completely screwed up a lot of the blood evidence and cast a "reasonable doubt" in the minds of the jurors. When you consider what had happened in LA with the Rodney King beating and riots and Rampart Scandal (which was happening but not yet blown open - but minorities sure knew about it) it was no longer a slam dunk case.

The LAPD is as much to blame for the DA losing the case as anyone.
mazzag
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AG
He's talking about the personal attacks on Marcia being uncalled for. But IMO, that's the price celebrities pay, even if they didn't ask for the notoriety. And she came across as very smug during the trial and not very likable.
Old Jock 1997
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AG
I'm not arguing that she came across as smug and arrogant.

But making fun of her looks and hair? Posting nude photos in a magazine?

I'm not sure at what point America took a turn for the worse, but this whole saga would have to be in the discussion.
ce1994
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AG
You read up on how LAPD got some of their evidence, how they lost some of the blood they took from Simpson and could not account for it, etc. you can easily agree they did not handle it well at all. The cops jumped a fence to get onto Simpson's estate and then walked around with Kaelin. Never once saw Simpson and used the guise they thought Simpson was hurt because they saw some of his blood.

If that were the case then the defense could have objected to the admission of evidence acquired illegally. They could have done any number of things instead of throwing a hail mary that it was all about race. Once they toed DNA evidence to Simpson's house it was over. Slam dunk. The guy is guilty.

Ito was very liberal toward the defense. They could have objected to any number of things and Ito would probably upheld it.
mazzag
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Her ex sold those pics and the national enquirer was around long before this trial. I'm not sure if it comes out in the show, but one of Nicole's sisters sells top less photos of Nicole. Remember Sarah Palin and what the media did to her? Her looks, voice, a very unflattering cover photo on Time, I think it was.
Old Jock 1997
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I get it. Just hard to not feel bad for her after this last episode.

My wife showed me a current photo of her in a recent People. She's an attractive 60-something.

Just crazy how at least in the series, almost nothing is about whether OJ killed them or not and everything is about...well, everything else. I'm remembering some of this now for how it felt then, even though I didn't follow every move.
ce1994
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If Ito said to her when she walked into the courtroom after changing her hair the prosecution should have asked for his dismissal right then and there. It showed a complete lack of respect for her.
Old Jock 1997
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Yup. Did that actually happen it was that dramatized?
Hogties
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quote:
Yup. Did that actually happen it was that dramatized?


Clark said it happened but not in front of the jury. This series is excellent and really brings the circus feel to the show. There was a link to a Marcia clark interview about 20-30 posts back (after ep 6 I think). It was very interesting and Marcia says they got the big things essentially right but of course some things are compressed or dramatized for TV. It's not a documentary after all.
Joan Wilder
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AG
Good lord, their excitement over the gloves is like watching an accident and you can't do anything to stop it.
Know Your Enemy
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How the **** was Robert Shapiro able to try on the glove during a recess?!
DannyDuberstein
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Such a painfully moronic move when he's got to wear effing rubber gloves underneath - even ignoring the impact they'd been soaked before.
J.P. 03
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quote:
How the **** was Robert Shapiro able to try on the glove during a recess?!
I had the exact same thought. Is what they showed just now really how it happened?!?
Know Your Enemy
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AG
quote:
quote:
How the **** was Robert Shapiro able to try on the glove during a recess?!
I had the exact same thought. Is what they showed just now really how it happened?!?

Not sure. It wouldn't have been televised because it was during recess.
Joan Wilder
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AG
I don't believe that Shapiro tried on the gloves the way they depicted it. Darden getting goaded by Cochran and Bailey was just masterful by the defense; such an incredibly immature decision by Darden.

As someone mentioned, how can you cheerfully try on gloves soaked with the blood of 2 murdered people? So gruesome.
20ag07
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Shapiro trying the glove on in the courtroom is not in Toobin's book.
Franklin Delano Bluth
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Marcia wanted the D @ the hotel....

Darden punked out
20ag07
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Don't forget to ***** about Kardashian's unnecessary reference to his son Rob being given a hard time at school. Unnecessary pandering just for ratings.
Gig-Em2003
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AG
Kellso
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quote:
quote:
How the **** was Robert Shapiro able to try on the glove during a recess?!
I had the exact same thought. Is what they showed just now really how it happened?!?
"
Shapiro tried on the crime-scene gloves in evidence during a courtroom break.

True. So did Cochran, according to Lawrence Schiller's American Tragedy. But the defense just planned "at some time in the future" to have O.J. put on the gloves before the jury."

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/03/people-v-oj-simpson-episode-7-recap
Old Jock 1997
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Good grief. How long have you had that canned speech prepared and ready to drop on the world? Get over yourself.

If you bothered reading my other posts on the thread, you'd see that early on I was pretty outspoken about the impact this saga had on the forced 24-hour news cycle, continual celebrity following and coverage, nobodies becoming somebodies, reality TV, etc. That's what my post referenced.

But thank you for characterizing me as a Nazi (it was bound to come up in this thread eventually for someone) and a Trump supporter (I despise the man) and willfully ignorant and racist and whatever else you painted with your broad brush. Because lobbing grenades instead of asking for clarification is easier, right?

The irony of this whole exchange is that you've exactly proven my point -- jump to conclusions on an Internet forum, try to generate some "likes", hope someone else jumps on your bandwagon and attacks from a similar starting point of misunderstanding, and sit back and watch Rome burn, right? Kind of like focusing on Clark's hair instead of evidence? I'll continue to posit that the OJ saga had a lot to do with the current world we live in.
Old Jock 1997
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AG
quote:
Good lord, their excitement over the gloves is like watching an accident and you can't do anything to stop it.


Absolutely. I watched it last night knowing how it would end, but imagining somehow, some way, it was going to be different than I recalled.

I have to assume the part about Cochran's double-life is true? I didn't know that previously.

And did the part about Clark in the bar with Darden's friends really happen? I wonder if her presentation to his friend about OJ's guilt really happened. Was the purpose of that to show that the evidence was so overwhelming that even a black man taking the viewpoint that he was framed couldn't deny the evidence and facts, regardless of whether he felt race was at the forefront?
Zombie Jon Snow
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AG
quote:
Good grief. How long have you had that canned speech prepared and ready to drop on the world? Get over yourself.

If you bothered reading my other posts on the thread, you'd see that early on I was pretty outspoken about the impact this saga had on the forced 24-hour news cycle, continual celebrity following and coverage, nobodies becoming somebodies, reality TV, etc. That's what my post referenced.

But thank you for characterizing me as a Nazi (it was bound to come up in this thread eventually for someone) and a Trump supporter (I despise the man) and willfully ignorant and racist and whatever else you painted with your broad brush. Because lobbing grenades instead of asking for clarification is easier, right?

The irony of this whole exchange is that you've exactly proven my point -- jump to conclusions on an Internet forum, try to generate some "likes", hope someone else jumps on your bandwagon and attacks from a similar starting point of misunderstanding, and sit back and watch Rome burn, right? Kind of like focusing on Clark's hair instead of evidence? I'll continue to posit that the OJ saga had a lot to do with the current world we live in.

it's certainly hard to point to anything prior to this as having the same kind of impact.

you certainly had racially charged things prior to this - rodney king and i remember media frenzy about that, watts riots, civil rights movement etc. which were reported by standard news and in a a controlled way not 24/7.

and you certainly had celebrity controversy and scandal before but again never really in 24/7 style.

the 80's and early 90s had a few scandals that were sort of leading up to this...they had more than their share of coverage and CNN gave them more airtime than previous scandals had received....but nothing on this level.

Iran Contra affair
Gary Hart and Donna Rice affair
Jim Bakker, Tammy Faye and Jessica Hahn
Televangelsist Robert Tilton


but this was a perfect storm of celebrity, 24/7 access, scandal, sex, crime, fame, race, etc.....and the fact that you had neither a murder weapon nor any witnesses. Nothing like it before. And it did change people, perception, race relations, etc. It would have been completely different with a solid case including a weapon and witnesses.



Franklin Delano Bluth
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AG
quote:
Good grief. How long have you had that canned speech prepared and ready to drop on the world? Get over yourself.

If you bothered reading my other posts on the thread, you'd see that early on I was pretty outspoken about the impact this saga had on the forced 24-hour news cycle, continual celebrity following and coverage, nobodies becoming somebodies, reality TV, etc. That's what my post referenced.

But thank you for characterizing me as a Nazi (it was bound to come up in this thread eventually for someone) and a Trump supporter (I despise the man) and willfully ignorant and racist and whatever else you painted with your broad brush. Because lobbing grenades instead of asking for clarification is easier, right?

The irony of this whole exchange is that you've exactly proven my point -- jump to conclusions on an Internet forum, try to generate some "likes", hope someone else jumps on your bandwagon and attacks from a similar starting point of misunderstanding, and sit back and watch Rome burn, right? Kind of like focusing on Clark's hair instead of evidence? I'll continue to posit that the OJ saga had a lot to do with the current world we live in.


Well said
H.E. Pennypacker
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AG
quote:
Good grief. How long have you had that canned speech prepared and ready to drop on the world? Get over yourself.

If you bothered reading my other posts on the thread, you'd see that early on I was pretty outspoken about the impact this saga had on the forced 24-hour news cycle, continual celebrity following and coverage, nobodies becoming somebodies, reality TV, etc. That's what my post referenced.

But thank you for characterizing me as a Nazi (it was bound to come up in this thread eventually for someone) and a Trump supporter (I despise the man) and willfully ignorant and racist and whatever else you painted with your broad brush. Because lobbing grenades instead of asking for clarification is easier, right?

The irony of this whole exchange is that you've exactly proven my point -- jump to conclusions on an Internet forum, try to generate some "likes", hope someone else jumps on your bandwagon and attacks from a similar starting point of misunderstanding, and sit back and watch Rome burn, right? Kind of like focusing on Clark's hair instead of evidence? I'll continue to posit that the OJ saga had a lot to do with the current world we live in.


Good Grief, et over yourself. In case the emojee choice and Furhrman German joke didn't convey it, I was mostly joshing with you. But people who make overly dramatic and broad statements about our spiraling culture shouldn't be so touchy when someone goes the other way. And kudos on your overly emotional and broad response to my purported overly emotional and broad response. It's straight out of Old Man Culture Scold 101. But again, if you're pining for some past idyllic American society that never truly existed outside of your imagination, you're fooling yourself. Present day America, Kardashian reign of cultural terror and all, is Best America.

Old Jock 1997
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AG
Those are all great examples and I agree -- none of them captured the perfect storm like the OJ saga did.
Kellso
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quote:
Don't forget to ***** about Kardashian's unnecessary reference to his son Rob being given a hard time at school. Unnecessary pandering just for ratings.
The House where Kardashian and Theo Huxtable open the garment bag is the actual house that the Kardashian clan lived in.

Franklin Delano Bluth
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AG
20ag just wants attention..... 20ag is a fan of all the kardashian TV shows
ce1994
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AG
I knew that was Theo Huxtable playing Al.
Btron
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AG
quote:
quote:
Good grief. How long have you had that canned speech prepared and ready to drop on the world? Get over yourself.

If you bothered reading my other posts on the thread, you'd see that early on I was pretty outspoken about the impact this saga had on the forced 24-hour news cycle, continual celebrity following and coverage, nobodies becoming somebodies, reality TV, etc. That's what my post referenced.

But thank you for characterizing me as a Nazi (it was bound to come up in this thread eventually for someone) and a Trump supporter (I despise the man) and willfully ignorant and racist and whatever else you painted with your broad brush. Because lobbing grenades instead of asking for clarification is easier, right?

The irony of this whole exchange is that you've exactly proven my point -- jump to conclusions on an Internet forum, try to generate some "likes", hope someone else jumps on your bandwagon and attacks from a similar starting point of misunderstanding, and sit back and watch Rome burn, right? Kind of like focusing on Clark's hair instead of evidence? I'll continue to posit that the OJ saga had a lot to do with the current world we live in.

it's certainly hard to point to anything prior to this as having the same kind of impact.

you certainly had racially charged things prior to this - rodney king and i remember media frenzy about that, watts riots, civil rights movement etc. which were reported by standard news and in a a controlled way not 24/7.

and you certainly had celebrity controversy and scandal before but again never really in 24/7 style.

the 80's and early 90s had a few scandals that were sort of leading up to this...they had more than their share of coverage and CNN gave them more airtime than previous scandals had received....but nothing on this level.

Iran Contra affair
Gary Hart and Donna Rice affair
Jim Bakker, Tammy Faye and Jessica Hahn
Televangelsist Robert Tilton


but this was a perfect storm of celebrity, 24/7 access, scandal, sex, crime, fame, race, etc.....and the fact that you had neither a murder weapon nor any witnesses. Nothing like it before. And it did change people, perception, race relations, etc. It would have been completely different with a solid case including a weapon and witnesses.





When did Loraine Bobitt and Tony's Harding take place. I remember those got a lot of attention. And made celebrities out of nobodies
Joan Wilder
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AG
Tonya Harding was the '94 olympics.

IIRC their intent was perhaps to have OJ try on an identical pair of new gloves of the same size, make and model. Never the gloves in evidence. But they didn't get the right size in time for the trial. Then Darden got played so hard.

The biggest issue about the glove allegedly being "moved" is that there were never 2 gloves at Bundy - NO ONE saw 2 gloves at Bundy, even in the initial police reports. There wasn't a second glove there to move.

Her speech at the bar may not have happened then and there but I'm sure she had that conversation with people all the time. The best part of that conspiracy theory she laid out was the call out that somehow the cops planted OJ's blood before they'd even collected it. That to me is the biggest hole in the whole theory. It's too bad she wasn't that eloquent at trial - but it's likely the jury would have found her abrasive and would still have been unwilling to convict.

And apparently they wanted to frame a guy they'd been covering for years and who let cops hang out at his pool.
JJxvi
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AG
Before OJ. Those things and the kid in Singapore who got caned were all 1993-4ish and all mentioned in a weird al song based on Mmm mmm mmm mmm by the crash test dummies.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Most of it was just a classic case of overconfidence IMO. There was so much evidence that on its face seemed overwhelming, but you still have to take your time to look at it from every angle and come up with an approach that ensures the jury understands the story you are putting together, how the pieces fit together, and meshing it all together so that your story is largely bulletproof. One item of evidence may be questioned in a vacuum, but if you are ready to combat that questioning with clear logic (like the basics about the gloves and blood mentioned above), you can destroy the defense.

While it's a completely different territory, this is what I constantly try to remind myself to do with decks/presentations at work. While you are often so familiar with the material that something may make perfect sense to you, you still always need to step back and really spend some time asking yourself (1) have I approached in a way that is optimized for my audience to understand it and (2) what questions might someone with their perspective ask. It felt like the prosecution consistently failed on that end.
Zombie Jon Snow
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quote:
Most of it was just a classic case of overconfidence IMO. There was so much evidence that on its face seemed overwhelming, but you still have to take your time to look at it from every angle and come up with an approach that ensures the jury understands the story you are putting together, how the pieces fit together, and meshing it all together so that your story is largely bulletproof. One item of evidence may be questioned in a vacuum, but if you are ready to combat that questioning with clear logic (like the basics about the gloves and blood mentioned above), you can destroy the defense.

While it's a completely different territory, this is what I constantly try to remind myself to do with decks/presentations at work. While you are often so familiar with the material that something may make perfect sense to you, you still always need to step back and really spend some time asking yourself (1) have I approached in a way that is optimized for my audience to understand it and (2) what questions might someone with their perspective ask. It felt like the prosecution consistently failed on that end.

if she spent half as much time explaining away the stupid conspiracy theories in the trial as she did outside the courtroom (at least in the show) that might have helped....i mean 2 minutes last night shot down that barroom full of mostly black guys pretty well.

it really is pretty easy to shut down just start with - so he grabs a glove and plants it at OJs without knowing if OJ has a rock solid alibis....ummm yeah i don't think so. plus they uhhhhh just happen to have OJs blood to plant????? nah. its really so simple she didn't think she had to waste time. but it would have helped.
mazzag
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I wish that they had used the real trial tv footage when they view it from tv footage.
 
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