Flashdiaz said:
The difference is now, no one believes in the good in Kylo anymore.
Enter Rose. She's going to save him with love.
Star Wars Discussion Thread
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Enter Rose. She's going to save him with love.
Why do you keep bringing up the Rose getting run off social media stuff? Why even insert that in here? Is anybody even talking about her? I think 99% of the fans who hate TLJ agree that bullying a celebrity on social media over it is stupid and wrong. The only reason i can imagine why you would mention that here is you think some of the people discussing this movie on this thread endorse that activity or are engaging in it. If that's not the case, then who are you preaching to here with these repeated comments and posts?TCTTS said:Urban Ag said:You know, I was about to respond something to the effect of "get over it" but I actually sat through all 22 minutes of that and have to say........damn, TLJ was even worse than I thought. Wow.Towns03 said:This is my first time on the ETBoard, I came here to rip the Last Jedi as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. This clip does the job perfectly.bangobango said:
I think this guy sums a lot of the complaints up pretty well (Language warning):
Popping back in to share this exact sentiment. TLJ is, indeed, even worse than I thought, after watching that all the way through. It definitely put into words what I had been trying to express for a while now, while also shining a light on problems I had never even considered.
However... you know what I'm NOT going to do? Express ill will toward Rian Johnson, whine about it like I'm 12, try to drive any of the actors off social media, or boycott this franchise forever.
You know what I AM going to do? Get on with my life and not let this affect me in any way, shape, or form, because I'm a grown ass man with literally thousands of other movies and television shows I can find immense satisfaction in. Along with every thing else life has to offer.
Now, back to doing just that...
As far as Rian Johnson, I do not like the guy. I think you have to be a narcissists of the highest order to make some of the decisions that he made with a franchise with the history and fan base of Star Wars. The movie reeks of contempt for the franchise and its fandom, and his interviews since its release only confirm that.
Here is a link to a CNN Money interview he did in which he says that he does not believe ANY of the criticism he has received since TLJ is valid. The fact that he then goes on to state that the Empire Strikes Back would receive similar criticism for Luke losing a fight with Vader and Solo getting frozen in carbonite. Those comments tell me that the guy is not only arrogant, he also does not understand basic storytelling and character growth/progression.
Finally, is it boycotting if you just decide you don't want to give your money for the products these people are putting out? I mean, it's your cash that you work your ass off for everyday. I guess I don't think I owe Lucasfilm or Disney a dime if they're not going to put out products that I want to see or am interested in. You, I guess, feel that I do. I cannot agree with that.
There has been no discussion about Episode IX, because what is there left to discuss? I have zero desire to see that movie and I thought that the moment I walked out of the theater when I was still trying to process what I had just seen and why something just felt wrong about it. One of the first thoughts I had at the end of that movie is that it felt more like the end to a third film that it did the end to the second film in a trilogy. Whatever JJ Abrams comes up with for film three it most likely will be a story that could serve as a standalone, in that there is really only one plot line that needs to be resolved that relates back to films one or two.
There is nothing going on with Finn. There is nothing going on with Rose. There is nothing going on with Poe. There is nothing going on with Leia. There is Kylo and Rey's ridiculous romance and that's about it.
Yea, the Rose stuff just means that people are ****ing crazy these days. I don't think it is necessarily a commentary on SW fandom - people just suck toward each other. Given that, I doubt anyone here has tweeted at Kelly Marie Tran, so it's kind of pointless to bring up in any real debate about the movies.
Farmer1906 said:
Couldn't the same argument be made for Vader?
he killed children (lots of them)
tried to kill mentor and best friend and years later actually did
choked his pregnant wife and eventually she died because of him
helped created one of the most devastating weapons in the galaxy.
killed made his daughter what her adopted home world get destroyed along with everyone she was close to
tried to kill his son (3x)
killed freedom fighters
killed women and children sand people
We didn't know about half of that in the OT, and it's the worst half (killing children and his wife). As for the rest... that's pretty standard bad guy stuff, he has to be bad to make the redemption meaningful.
I'm not sure I subscribe to the "Kylo is too far gone" theory though, he doesn't seem that much worse than Vader.
If IX was supposed to be pretty heavy on Leia, it tells me they were considering redemption for Kylo. I'm not sure where you take the story now without her.
CJS4715 said:
If IX was supposed to be pretty heavy on Leia, it tells me they were considering redemption for Kylo. I'm not sure where you take the story now without her.
Which makes it more frustrating why they didn't kill Liea off in TLJ. Now her story is a giant question mark. They could have easily let Leia die in space instead of going space Leia. It would have been a powerful death and sacrifice. Her scenes after space Leia weren't all that relevant besides talking with Luke.
I think that's the main reason .... also, she stunned Poe.TooTall 06 said:CJS4715 said:
If IX was supposed to be pretty heavy on Leia, it tells me they were considering redemption for Kylo. I'm not sure where you take the story now without her.
Which makes it more frustrating why they didn't kill Liea off in TLJ. Now her story is a giant question mark. They could have easily let Leia die in space instead of going space Leia. It would have been a powerful death and sacrifice. Her scenes after space Leia weren't all that relevant besides talking with Luke.
and you can't redeem Kylo because then there will be no bad guy left. If he turns to the light then what, the First Order starts doing charity runs and habitats for aliens throughout the galaxy?
Agree with this! Leia's death could have also served as the thing that snapped Luke back from the pity-party he was having on that island and prompted him to stop hiding out and act like a Jedi once again. He could have actually accompanied Rey and confronted Kylo. If he died in that confrontation, it would have been so much more satisfying (and in character IMO).TooTall 06 said:CJS4715 said:
If IX was supposed to be pretty heavy on Leia, it tells me they were considering redemption for Kylo. I'm not sure where you take the story now without her.
Which makes it more frustrating why they didn't kill Liea off in TLJ. Now her story is a giant question mark. They could have easily let Leia die in space instead of going space Leia. It would have been a powerful death and sacrifice. Her scenes after space Leia weren't all that relevant besides talking with Luke.
TooTall 06 said:CJS4715 said:
If IX was supposed to be pretty heavy on Leia, it tells me they were considering redemption for Kylo. I'm not sure where you take the story now without her.
Which makes it more frustrating why they didn't kill Liea off in TLJ. Now her story is a giant question mark. They could have easily let Leia die in space instead of going space Leia. It would have been a powerful death and sacrifice. Her scenes after space Leia weren't all that relevant besides talking with Luke.
yes but... would've required more reshoots and delayed it....and they were not moving the date.
If Leia dies there then she doesn't come back on the ship and stun Poe and take back over. Someone else has to do that.
then she isn't on the escape vessels and doesn't have the conversation with Holdo about who stays behind.
and she isn't on the planet in the cave and doesn't have the moment with Luke.
Best way which you might have been able to CGI to some effect is.....
She is pulled back on the ship (by Ackbar not some force power) and recovers but after the rest escape on the ships including Holdo.
Then you could maybe have the convo with Luke but while she is on the ship - CGI it to change the background. Might be a giveaway that Luke is force projecting himself though before the confrontation with Kylo.
Then Ackbar and Leia are the ones who lightspeed attack the FO ship. Leaving Holdo to command in the next movie.
But since it was already all filmed that was gonna be tough to do.
Kill Leia. Luke goes darkish and mows down Kylo in front of Rey who is experiencing her odd feelings for Kylo. Do not have the confrontation with Snoke even happen. He is still alive going into IX.
This. This kind of terrible online behavior is literally everywhere.CJS4715 said:
Yea, the Rose stuff just means that people are ****ing crazy these days. I don't think it is necessarily a commentary on SW fandom - people just suck toward each other. Given that, I doubt anyone here has tweeted at Kelly Marie Tran, so it's kind of pointless to bring up in any real debate about the movies.
I have a FB business page. Last summer I posted a terrible photoshop joke picture of a friend of mine posing with armadillo road kill blown up the size of a hippo, as if he shot it himself and getting a trophy photo taken. I typically get about 10,000 people reached per post but this thing went to 350,000. I had complete morons thinking the photo was real. I had animal rights types issuing death threats. I had one guy say he'd like to pose with a picture of my dead family. I pulled the picture after two days.
So anyway, it's a great point to make.
Kinda like this pic ...
edit - are there really people this stupid running around out there?
edit - are there really people this stupid running around out there?
This thread sucks now. It's one thing to hate a movie; it's another to obsess about that hatred. This board and thread specifically was always great during our yearly football meltdown for positivity and cool nerd stuff, and now it's just as bad as the threads I left. Just hate the movie and let it go.
Holy **** !
It was exactly like that. And yes, it's literally amazing how stupid people are.
I saw that pic from JP in a tweet where someone was trolling the interwebs except the tweet stated "President Trump cuts funding for Triceratops Restoration Program, last Triceratops in captivity dies". It was scary how many morons took that bait on that.
I saw that pic from JP in a tweet where someone was trolling the interwebs except the tweet stated "President Trump cuts funding for Triceratops Restoration Program, last Triceratops in captivity dies". It was scary how many morons took that bait on that.
The greatest thing about Star Wars is the unbelievable pedestal that the original trilogy is place upon.
It is a standard heroes journey set in space folks... it just happens to be one that got kids of the 80's and 90's easily hooked because it came paired with cool toys to ask your parents for.
Couple that with ground breaking special effects and the most iconic villain and you have pretty standard movies become iconic.
TLJ wasn't my favorite but I will still see Episode IX
I chose Deadpool instead of Solo because well... Deadpool is awesome.
Still love Star Wars.
It is a standard heroes journey set in space folks... it just happens to be one that got kids of the 80's and 90's easily hooked because it came paired with cool toys to ask your parents for.
Couple that with ground breaking special effects and the most iconic villain and you have pretty standard movies become iconic.
TLJ wasn't my favorite but I will still see Episode IX
I chose Deadpool instead of Solo because well... Deadpool is awesome.
Still love Star Wars.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were someday revealed that Lucas pursued Disney harder than Disney pursued Lucas. Also, out in the Wall Street world, Lucas has taken a lot of flak for selling Lucasfilm as low as he did, some business pundits even going so far as to say it's one of the worst mega deals they've ever seen executed (for the seller that is). Also wouldn't be surprised to learn he was ready the dump the whole damn thing and move on with his life.
Urban Ag said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it were someday revealed that Lucas pursued Disney harder than Disney pursued Lucas. Also, out in the Wall Street world, Lucas has taken a lot of flak for selling Lucasfilm as low as he did, some business pundits even going so far as to say it's one of the worst mega deals they've ever seen executed (for the seller that is). Also wouldn't be surprised to learn he was ready the dump the whole damn thing and move on with his life.
I wouldn't be surprised either. I had always read that Lucas really took the criticism of the prequels personally as would anybody who is accused of raping childhoods.
I don't see it as obsession. I am discussing the franchise. The franchise just posted it's first big loss in the forty plus history of the franchise.John Matrix said:
This thread sucks now. It's one thing to hate a movie; it's another to obsess about that hatred. This board and thread specifically was always great during our yearly football meltdown for positivity and cool nerd stuff, and now it's just as bad as the threads I left. Just hate the movie and let it go.
I think it's bizarre that any talk about the direction of the franchise and how it may be going in a negative direction is met with such zealous fervor by other posters on this thread. That is what seems bizarre to me. I have posted several facts and opinions based on facts and most of those are met with ad hominem attacks rather than actual discussion, such as this post here.
Is it okay to post negative things about the Transformer franchise in a Transformer thread? What about the DCEU in a DC thread? Why is Star Wars, that just suffered a DCEU-like flop, the only franchise that is off-limits?
Yes, to a point. But there is one HUGE, key difference.Farmer1906 said:
Couldn't the same argument be made for Vader?
he killed children (lots of them)
tried to kill mentor and best friend and years later actually did
choked his pregnant wife and eventually she died because of him
helped created one of the most devastating weapons in the galaxy.
killed made his daughter what her adopted home world get destroyed along with everyone she was close to
tried to kill his son (3x)
killed freedom fighters
killed women and children sand people
Vader sacrifices himself for his son. At least there is some redemption there, for that one thing only. He does a single selfishly unselfish thing to save his son. No the scales are not balanced, and he should not have been a force ghost at the end of Jedi.
Kylo has nothing like that. He has no love for anyone; he has noting to sacrifice himself for.
The ONLY sacrifice play he has is to kill himself, if it could theoretically destroy the dark side forever.
And as bad as TLJ is, they would not go that way with Ep 9.
i don't think they were ever going for a redemption story with Kylo.SeattleAgJr said:
Yes, to a point. But there is one HUGE, key difference.
Vader sacrifices himself for his son. At least there is some redemption there, for that one thing only. He does a single selfishly unselfish thing to save his son. No the scales are not balanced, and he should not have been a force ghost at the end of Jedi.
Kylo has nothing like that. He has no love for anyone; he has noting to sacrifice himself for.
The ONLY sacrifice play he has is to kill himself, if it could theoretically destroy the dark side forever.
And as bad as TLJ is, they would not go that way with Ep 9.
One frowning glance at a time.CJS4715 said:Flashdiaz said:
The difference is now, no one believes in the good in Kylo anymore.
Enter Rose. She's going to save him with love.
They're not going anywhere in particular with anyone though. IX is a blank slate.
as was episode 8 tooUlrich said:
They're not going anywhere in particular with anyone though. IX is a blank slate.
SeattleAgJr said:Yes, to a point. But there is one HUGE, key difference.Farmer1906 said:
Couldn't the same argument be made for Vader?
he killed children (lots of them)
tried to kill mentor and best friend and years later actually did
choked his pregnant wife and eventually she died because of him
helped created one of the most devastating weapons in the galaxy.
killed made his daughter what her adopted home world get destroyed along with everyone she was close to
tried to kill his son (3x)
killed freedom fighters
killed women and children sand people
Vader sacrifices himself for his son. At least there is some redemption there, for that one thing only. He does a single selfishly unselfish thing to save his son. No the scales are not balanced, and he should not have been a force ghost at the end of Jedi.
Kylo has nothing like that. He has no love for anyone; he has noting to sacrifice himself for.
The ONLY sacrifice play he has is to kill himself, if it could theoretically destroy the dark side forever.
And as bad as TLJ is, they would not go that way with Ep 9.
I don't want a redemption. I want Kylo to embrace the gray side. Try to gain power and rule. But not be pure evil like Palps.
SF2004 said:
The greatest thing about Star Wars is the unbelievable pedestal that the original trilogy is place upon.
It is a standard heroes journey set in space folks... it just happens to be one that got kids of the 80's and 90's easily hooked because it came paired with cool toys to ask your parents for.
Couple that with ground breaking special effects and the most iconic villain and you have pretty standard movies become iconic.
TLJ wasn't my favorite but I will still see Episode IX
I chose Deadpool instead of Solo because well... Deadpool is awesome.
Still love Star Wars.
Agree with pretty much all this post, but I'd tack on that in addition to Deadpool being awesome that I also never really wanted or was interested in getting Han's backstory to begin with.
I like filling out canon for the franchise, but I'm of the mind that going back to the well for an established character like Han who has already had a full journey in the OT and ST comes across as milking the franchise fan base for cash.
Sure you could argue that Rogue One did that with a known story, in that we knew they would get the plans, but we also didn't know any of the main characters either. And considering that everyone dies in the end made it feel entirely different from other movies preceding it.
TBH, while TCW came before the Disney acquisition and Lucas had a large amount of influence on it, I can't say at this point that I feel like the movies have really added anything to the franchise. On the other hand, TCW and Rebels have done more to expand on the Star Wars universe as a whole than the movies have.
Just my two cents.
bangobango said:
I have posted several facts and opinions based on facts and most of those are met with ad hominem attacks rather than actual discussion, such as this post here.
troofUlrich said:
They're not going anywhere in particular with anyone though. IX is a blank slate.
The one good thing Rian Johnson do was at least not kill off the Knights of Ren.
We now know this:
isn't from the night Kylo burns down the Jedi temple.
i'm going to go ahead and expect this is a confrontation at Vader's castle in Episode 9.... JJ, don't fail me again!
We now know this:
isn't from the night Kylo burns down the Jedi temple.
i'm going to go ahead and expect this is a confrontation at Vader's castle in Episode 9.... JJ, don't fail me again!
bangobango said:Why do you keep bringing up the Rose getting run off social media stuff? Why even insert that in here? Is anybody even talking about her? I think 99% of the fans who hate TLJ agree that bullying a celebrity on social media over it is stupid and wrong. The only reason i can imagine why you would mention that here is you think some of the people discussing this movie on this thread endorse that activity or are engaging in it. If that's not the case, then who are you preaching to here with these repeated comments and posts?TCTTS said:Urban Ag said:You know, I was about to respond something to the effect of "get over it" but I actually sat through all 22 minutes of that and have to say........damn, TLJ was even worse than I thought. Wow.Towns03 said:This is my first time on the ETBoard, I came here to rip the Last Jedi as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. This clip does the job perfectly.bangobango said:
I think this guy sums a lot of the complaints up pretty well (Language warning):
Popping back in to share this exact sentiment. TLJ is, indeed, even worse than I thought, after watching that all the way through. It definitely put into words what I had been trying to express for a while now, while also shining a light on problems I had never even considered.
However... you know what I'm NOT going to do? Express ill will toward Rian Johnson, whine about it like I'm 12, try to drive any of the actors off social media, or boycott this franchise forever.
You know what I AM going to do? Get on with my life and not let this affect me in any way, shape, or form, because I'm a grown ass man with literally thousands of other movies and television shows I can find immense satisfaction in. Along with every thing else life has to offer.
Now, back to doing just that...
As far as Rian Johnson, I do not like the guy. I think you have to be a narcissists of the highest order to make some of the decisions that he made with a franchise with the history and fan base of Star Wars. The movie reeks of contempt for the franchise and its fandom, and his interviews since its release only confirm that.
Here is a link to a CNN Money interview he did in which he says that he does not believe ANY of the criticism he has received since TLJ is valid. The fact that he then goes on to state that the Empire Strikes Back would receive similar criticism for Luke losing a fight with Vader and Solo getting frozen in carbonite. Those comments tell me that the guy is not only arrogant, he also does not understand basic storytelling and character growth/progression.
Finally, is it boycotting if you just decide you don't want to give your money for the products these people are putting out? I mean, it's your cash that you work your ass off for everyday. I guess I don't think I owe Lucasfilm or Disney a dime if they're not going to put out products that I want to see or am interested in. You, I guess, feel that I do. I cannot agree with that.
There has been no discussion about Episode IX, because what is there left to discuss? I have zero desire to see that movie and I thought that the moment I walked out of the theater when I was still trying to process what I had just seen and why something just felt wrong about it. One of the first thoughts I had at the end of that movie is that it felt more like the end to a third film that it did the end to the second film in a trilogy. Whatever JJ Abrams comes up with for film three it most likely will be a story that could serve as a standalone, in that there is really only one plot line that needs to be resolved that relates back to films one or two.
There is nothing going on with Finn. There is nothing going on with Rose. There is nothing going on with Poe. There is nothing going on with Leia. There is Kylo and Rey's ridiculous romance and that's about it.
I agree, SW is an important franchise so people are going to spend more time than other franchises discussing it. I feel the majority of the criticisms come from a place of utter bewilderment, not unreasonable, fanboy anger. Also, I'm surprised that a lot of people here forgot how bad TLJ is - it seems we've all been using a different perspective, hence the misunderstandings.
I haven't heard much discussion of the future. What does TA think should be done after IX?
The main thing that video made me realize is how badly choreographed part of the throne room fight was. You'd think they would take a close look at each and every person in the frame.
First, slow the roll on pumping out movies.
All I want for IX is Force Ghost Luke to appear to Rey and say "hey, so remember when you handed me my lightsaber and I just kind of tossed it over my shoulder? Yeah, I have no idea what I was thinking. In fact, I just wasn't myself the whole time you were on the island. Also, your parents were really, really, important people. Just FYI."
"Your grandfather first taught me the ways of the Jedi"Urban Ag said:
All I want for IX is Force Ghost Luke to appear to Rey and say "hey, so remember when you handed me my lightsaber and I just kind of tossed it over my shoulder? Yeah, I have no idea what I was thinking. In fact, I just wasn't myself the whole time you were on the island. Also, your parents were really, really, important people. Just FYI."
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