Texas A&M Football
Sponsored by

Vertical dynamic deflection of south 2nd deck.

189,558 Views | 648 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by The Collective
Emilio Fantastico
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This is why armies don't march across bridges in unison. Gotta avoid them resonant frequencies.

I guess them will need to speed up or slow down the music or find a song with a different beat to avoid the resonance.
Personal Best
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We are officially one day into phase II of the renovation and this thread is already here.

I love it
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Forces. Structure. Inches. Bouncing.
Muy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The new name for the South Endzone...

The Accordian
Fitch
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Out of curiosity if you were moving as part of the cantilevered structure, how were you able to see the deflection a few rows down?

And assuming this is a legitimate post and not a troll job, then forward the concern along to the chancellors office and Phillip Ray.
AggieLit
How long do you want to ignore this user?
.
deceptivespeed14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bama game '13. Second deck, student side. Evan's 96 yard TD-stadium was definitely moving A LOT.
aggie_kharma
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Great, just great. Now our stadium sucks to.
W
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
let's not forget the Allen high school football stadium -- mistakes still get made in this day and age
Picadillo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've seen this in bridges. Not good.
MagnumLoad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Vertical deflection varies from maximum at the free end of a cantilever to near zero at the support end of a cantilever. I was nearer the support end, so could see the differential vertical movement between my location and the free end. It was visibly obvious and concerning. People can feel very very small vibrations, much smaller than can be seen. When the differential movement is visibly obvious and more than several inches it gets my attention. I understand that any loading produces some deflection because no structure is infinitely stiff (no boner jokes here please). Swaying is not the type of forcing function of concern here.

Two straight forward questions that should be answered in my opinion are these:

What are the acceptable maximum amplitudes of vertical motion at the free end of the south end second deck cantilever for the range of potential vertical forcing functions? I expect that the frequency for people bouncing to music would be around 2 cycles per second, but say a range of 1 to 3 cps for starters. Two parameters here, amplitude and frequency of the vertical dynamic force.

What are the amplitudes of motion at that location that are actually occurring? Should be obtainable from video analysis. If less than the amplitudes in the above question, wala, we be scrong den.

Baron de Bastrop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I am fightin' Texas Aggie Class of '92 B.S. Mechanical Engineering and I support this thread!

Do you guys remember watching the film in grade school showing the Tacoma Narrows Bridge up in Washington get torn to shreds by wind blowing at the natural frequency of the bridge even though a bunch of engineers "probably considered the wind"?

Do you remember the Hilton in Kansas City that collapsed in the middle of a concert in the foyer because of a fundamental misunderstanding of how the structure would be used (people all standing on the balconies of every floor at the same time to watch) causing a physical design failure?

How many years have we had Sandstorm playing at Kyle Field? Or the other songs that have never been played before at Kyle? It's probably fine, but engineers don't get paid to say it's probably fine. They get paid to consider account for the rare and unlikely when the consequence could be catastrophic.

Thanks Magnus for bringing some attention to this - - TexAgs will get it public enough to get it to the right folks!
Necrosis
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Out of curiosity if you were moving as part of the cantilevered structure, how were you able to see the deflection a few rows down?

And assuming this is a legitimate post and not a troll job, then forward the concern along to the chancellors office and Phillip Ray.


I was sitting in the same area. You could see the edge moving relative to the field.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
aggie_2001_2005
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think this gives us a great opportunity to just tear it all down and build something that doesn't look like a 100 year-old construction project.
lctag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Athletic Department is already working on this. The plan is to offer 5 year contract extensions to both Spav and Snyder - effectively putting an immediate end to music, cheering, or jumping in the stands.
TennAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
this was during "sandstorm" I assume?
Billy Liuccis Facial Hair
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Would the quick fix be to not play music?
Ags06Win
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I was on 8th row of 2nd Deck.. We had a lot I people notice around us.

It was NOT safe!
MagnumLoad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
The Athletic Department is already working on this. The plan is to offer 5 year contract extensions to both Spav and Snyder - effectively putting an immediate end to music, cheering, or jumping in the stands.
LOL. How could I miss such an obvious solution.

It could very well be fine and safe. Just should be confirmed by answering the questions I posed, IMO.

If safe, we can enjoy the ride.
DallasAg 94
How long do you want to ignore this user?
While we are firing coaches, we need to fire the South EndZone 2nd Deck coach.

Time to clean house.

I want him (or her) fired by Monday.
beezman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zoo disappoints me. .... after 2 pages where's the gif of the bouncing tits.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
How far is the cantilevered span? I'm not a structural engineer but I always thought the rule of thumb starting point for deflection was L/360. So what would that deflection be?

And just because the amplitude increased with the jumping doesn't necessarily mean it would be unbounded resonance.

Either way I've seen enough comments that it should merit a response - at least enough to say "yeah, we looked, it's fine."
jamaggie06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Safe or not, it sounds like it bothers people.

Need to look into some remedial measures like a tuned mass damper.

I love structural dynamics. I'd love to get a look at the structural drawings and attempt to estimate the ressonant frequency and response.
SECTAMU#1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If it is structurally deficient, it needs to be fixed before next season.
MagnumLoad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If it is a problem, it can be fixed without tearing it down. Installation of dampers as mentioned is one option, and possibly the best.

No resonant amplitudes are unbounded as long as there is even a small amount of damping. However, the boundary may exceed the structure capacity in terms of stress.
CosmicMaskedAvenger
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Doesn't matter how much movement there was, that officiating crew was not going to call offsides.
xGigEmAggies12x
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Doesn't matter how much movement there was, that officiating crew was not going to call offsides.
Ridge14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
quote:
Old Kyle is all concrete, much more total mass and damping than steel support structure. In the past most of the concern has addressed horizontal movement from swaying people.


The student body recently started adding a hitch to their sway. Like I said, we should already have plenty of data from the old design to properly estimate these kinds of forces.
We did what?
stetson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm sure that the vertical support whatchamacallits are strong enough to support the cantilever doohickeys and overcome the dynamic vertical thing. However, considering the new addition was built by workers from Alabama, it is perhaps wise to err on the side of caution and it is just one more reason to go see the Aggies play on the road next season rather than go to home games where they crap the bed.
Yid Army
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Doesn't matter how much movement there was, that officiating crew was not going to call offsides.
bmks270
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
UCF stadium had a ton of "bounce" from jumping fans when it opened and reinforcements were added. It is forever nicknamed "the bounce house"

It would not be unprecedented to need to add reinforcements to a stadium because.of jumping fans.
bmks270
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
From wiki on UCF stadium:


The stadium has been referred to by some as "The Trampoline"[27] or "The Bounce House"[28] because the stadium flexes when fans jump during Zombie Nation's song "Kernkraft 400".[29] While many fans like this feature, some are uneasy with the bouncing. Stadium officials claimed the stadium was structurally sound, and an independent contractor confirmed that the bouncing will not damage the stadium and shorten its expected 50year useful life. Still, a project was begun prior to the 2008 season to reinforce the stadium superstructure and mitigate the bouncing effect.[30] While the bouncing has been greatly reduced, it is still noticeable, and sometimes enough to shake TV cameras during televised games. For the 2010 Conference USA Football Championship Game, television presenterESPN2 set-up a camera position outside of the stadium to eliminate camera bounce caused by fans.[31]
jpd301
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I started a thread on this in premium overnight and was hoping someone had better video than me. It looked to me that the deck was moving 6-12" but there's no consensus in premium other than folks think I am exaggerating.

I tried to get video but didn't get a great shot, and it was after folks stopped jumping as much and the deck started damping. I apologize for the crude vertical 5 second video in advance. I know it can be a rough crowd around here... Watch the railing at the front of the second deck.

Wonder if anyone has better video they can post.

Fitch
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yeah even on a phone there's obviously some movement.
Corps_Ag12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
This is why armies don't march across bridges in unison. Gotta avoid them resonant frequencies.


This happened my junior year marching into Austin. Bridge stated shaking violently and the immediately made us halt and march off the outfits one by one.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.