It's like that everywhere.....GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
It's like that everywhere.....GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
Oh, it will loosen up once people start getting their vaccines.Capitol Ag said:
What I think is kind of funny is that certain retailers have been arguing that removing the mandate removed the "authority" that their employees had to enforce the mask mandate. Now that certain companies wish to keep their own mandate instated, it's more difficult for them to enforce without government teeth, so to speak. I find that argument flawed personally. To me, having worked at a gym as a trainer when the mandate was established, we viewed the mandate as an extra burden of enforcement that we should not have to bear. We were not deputized to enforce law and had regular jobs that we needed to focus on, especially given the fact that in our industry, closures forced a lot of us into holes in terms of getting clients and signing up members plus not losing the ones we already had.
To me the simple solution is for business to end their masking policies overall. If it is just now "too difficult" to enforce such a policy without the state backing it up (businesses own words), the very easy solution is just don't have one. I think eventually over the next few months with a lot of us completely safe to those around us b/c we are vaccinated, this is what we will see. Businesses right now are being reactive. They don't want to appear insensitive. But if they can just say it's impossible to enforce and still do their jobs, it gives them an out.
I agree. Since that post, while some retail still enforce the same, a lot more places are not enforcing a mask policy. More and more people are not masking when out. As you stated, at this rate, by Memorial Day, many more places will ease up. I think one of the keys will be more people entering stores without masks. Sure, if a small number enter it is easy to enforce and there still maybe customers who feel uncomfortable either confronting the non mask wearer or telling the manager. That changes when 30 or more % start to enter maskless. At that point I feel retailers will just throw their hands up and say "oh well, don't worry about it. Or just be relieved that now they can legitimately state that there are just too many people not masking to try to enforce a policy.Tex117 said:Oh, it will loosen up once people start getting their vaccines.Capitol Ag said:
What I think is kind of funny is that certain retailers have been arguing that removing the mandate removed the "authority" that their employees had to enforce the mask mandate. Now that certain companies wish to keep their own mandate instated, it's more difficult for them to enforce without government teeth, so to speak. I find that argument flawed personally. To me, having worked at a gym as a trainer when the mandate was established, we viewed the mandate as an extra burden of enforcement that we should not have to bear. We were not deputized to enforce law and had regular jobs that we needed to focus on, especially given the fact that in our industry, closures forced a lot of us into holes in terms of getting clients and signing up members plus not losing the ones we already had.
To me the simple solution is for business to end their masking policies overall. If it is just now "too difficult" to enforce such a policy without the state backing it up (businesses own words), the very easy solution is just don't have one. I think eventually over the next few months with a lot of us completely safe to those around us b/c we are vaccinated, this is what we will see. Businesses right now are being reactive. They don't want to appear insensitive. But if they can just say it's impossible to enforce and still do their jobs, it gives them an out.
Memorial Day (ish), things will be relatively open with no masks.
Or maybe that this is a complex situation with more than just one variable. Weird.GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
Some variation of this for sure.Capitol Ag said:I agree. Since that post, while some retail still enforce the same, a lot more places are not enforcing a mask policy. More and more people are not masking when out. As you stated, at this rate, by Memorial Day, many more places will ease up. I think one of the keys will be more people entering stores without masks. Sure, if a small number enter it is easy to enforce and there still maybe customers who feel uncomfortable either confronting the non mask wearer or telling the manager. That changes when 30 or more % start to enter maskless. At that point I feel retailers will just throw their hands up and say "oh well, don't worry about it. Or just be relieved that now they can legitimately state that there are just too many people not masking to try to enforce a policy.Tex117 said:Oh, it will loosen up once people start getting their vaccines.Capitol Ag said:
What I think is kind of funny is that certain retailers have been arguing that removing the mandate removed the "authority" that their employees had to enforce the mask mandate. Now that certain companies wish to keep their own mandate instated, it's more difficult for them to enforce without government teeth, so to speak. I find that argument flawed personally. To me, having worked at a gym as a trainer when the mandate was established, we viewed the mandate as an extra burden of enforcement that we should not have to bear. We were not deputized to enforce law and had regular jobs that we needed to focus on, especially given the fact that in our industry, closures forced a lot of us into holes in terms of getting clients and signing up members plus not losing the ones we already had.
To me the simple solution is for business to end their masking policies overall. If it is just now "too difficult" to enforce such a policy without the state backing it up (businesses own words), the very easy solution is just don't have one. I think eventually over the next few months with a lot of us completely safe to those around us b/c we are vaccinated, this is what we will see. Businesses right now are being reactive. They don't want to appear insensitive. But if they can just say it's impossible to enforce and still do their jobs, it gives them an out.
Memorial Day (ish), things will be relatively open with no masks.
not to over politicize an already political thread, but somebody was going over the FL/CA article and mentioned that their numbers were about the same. The pro-mask/lockdown argument was, "see Florida didn't do 'great' or better than anybody. they still had about average deaths."GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
fig96 said:Or maybe that this is a complex situation with more than just one variable. Weird.GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
BBQ4Me said:GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
That line of thinking conveniently omits Independent Variables like the millions of vaccines administered
BBQ4Me said:GAC06 said:
Looking at case graphs, no one can tell when masks were required or the mandate was lifted. It's almost like masks were pointless theater the whole time. Weird.
That line of thinking conveniently omits Independent Variables like the millions of vaccines administered
fig96 said:
I really have no desire to dive into this debate, but acting like masks have never had any effect is at least as silly as acting like they're the only thing we need to do. Granted this is from about 6 months ago, but there's several obvious trends we saw then.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/21546014/mask-mandates-coronavirus-covid-19
And again, there's a number of variables that evolved over time so you're never going to be able to point to any one moment in support of any particular action. I'll leave this here and check back later to learn why all this data is wrong and all the data supporting other positions is right
amercer said:
Masks absolutely work. But you have to actually follow the rules. That means wearing them whenever you are around people not from your own family. Outside, inside, over your mouth AND nose every time.
The only thing that's clear from the past year is that basically no one followed the rules. It didn't matter if they were pro lockdown or against, or pro mask or against, the rules were always for someone else. At this point TX and FL are just acknowledging reality.
Not sure I would go that far. October in Texas is still the tail end of summer before the first major cold front at the end of Oct or early Nov (average Texas Oct Temp ~80). North Dakota would already be experiencing freezes, at least overnight (average North Dakota Oct Temp ~40).fig96 said:
I'd also note that October isn't a month where we would generally have the massive temp variables between north and south like we would later in winter.
Actually, the one thing that is clear from the data is that there is spread is within households. So for the masks to actually work, you probably need to wear them at home around your family members.amercer said:
Masks absolutely work. But you have to actually follow the rules. That means wearing them whenever you are around people not from your own family. Outside, inside, over your mouth AND nose every time.
Well, you're first mistake was linking a study done by Vox. I'd trust a story from the National Enquirer over this worthless "news" site. They are about as unbiased as Rolling Stone or CNN.fig96 said:
I really have no desire to dive into this debate, but acting like masks have never had any effect is at least as silly as acting like they're the only thing we need to do. Granted this is from about 6 months ago, but there's several obvious trends we saw then.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/21546014/mask-mandates-coronavirus-covid-19
And again, there's a number of variables that evolved over time so you're never going to be able to point to any one moment in support of any particular action. I'll leave this here and check back later to learn why all this data is wrong and all the data supporting other positions is right
You catch is by being indoors, around someone who has it.amercer said:
The virus isn't magic. You catch it by being indoors, unmasked, around someone who has it.
And here's my anecdotal part. Not one family member of mine has tested positive, either. Spending plenty of time indoors unmasked around many different people.amercer said:
Hey, here's my unscientific anecdote to retort. No one in my circle has tested positive in the last year. No double masking required, most people still going to work. Just staying away from being unmasked indoors with people outside the family.
Again, because it's not magic.
beerad12man said:And here's my anecdotal part. Not one family member of mine has tested positive, either. Spending plenty of time indoors unmasked around many different people.amercer said:
Hey, here's my unscientific anecdote to retort. No one in my circle has tested positive in the last year. No double masking required, most people still going to work. Just staying away from being unmasked indoors with people outside the family.
Again, because it's not magic.
There's actually a lot more to it. I think genetics, blood type, natural immunity, etc., play a far bigger role than a mask protecting you.
Well I don't know how one could argue with the science behind the restroom smell test.Dad said:amercer said:
Masks absolutely work. But you have to actually follow the rules. That means wearing them whenever you are around people not from your own family. Outside, inside, over your mouth AND nose every time.
The only thing that's clear from the past year is that basically no one followed the rules. It didn't matter if they were pro lockdown or against, or pro mask or against, the rules were always for someone else. At this point TX and FL are just acknowledging reality.
They absolutely don't work. Walk into a public restroom wearing one when someone is dropping a dirty poop bomb in the room. When you smell it you'll realize how ineffective your mask is. My wife's friend spent most of the last year hiding in her basement from Covid and double masked everywhere and never ate out but she got Covid grocery shopping while double masked.
fig96 said:Well I don't know how one could argue with the science behind the restroom smell test.Dad said:amercer said:
Masks absolutely work. But you have to actually follow the rules. That means wearing them whenever you are around people not from your own family. Outside, inside, over your mouth AND nose every time.
The only thing that's clear from the past year is that basically no one followed the rules. It didn't matter if they were pro lockdown or against, or pro mask or against, the rules were always for someone else. At this point TX and FL are just acknowledging reality.
They absolutely don't work. Walk into a public restroom wearing one when someone is dropping a dirty poop bomb in the room. When you smell it you'll realize how ineffective your mask is. My wife's friend spent most of the last year hiding in her basement from Covid and double masked everywhere and never ate out but she got Covid grocery shopping while double masked.
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/06/29/its-all-about-size-why-experts-say-its-false-to-say-masks-dont-filter-out-coronavirus-because-odors-can-get-in/
Yep. But when you have people like Dad or other posters who don't even know the difference between the molecular weight of a volatile thiol or amine vs the molecular weight of a virus trying to teach us science, you see how futile it is to argue.amercer said:
Masks absolutely work. But you have to actually follow the rules. That means wearing them whenever you are around people not from your own family. Outside, inside, over your mouth AND nose every time.
The only thing that's clear from the past year is that basically no one followed the rules. It didn't matter if they were pro lockdown or against, or pro mask or against, the rules were always for someone else. At this point TX and FL are just acknowledging reality.