Reaching capacity in the upper RGV

40,356 Views | 239 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by PJYoung
RGV AG
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No worries there boss.

If you want to take it down the road you are implying, answer me this: would most of these older victims, whose passing is tragic without question, be acceptable candidates for government, i.e. Medicare, funded life prolonging treatments, those which are very expensive and limited in availability?

I bid you good night.
SirLurksALot
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Thomas Ford 91 said:

SirLurksALot said:

Thomas Ford 91 said:

You lose me at "let the old Americans die to preserve my fortune".


Yeah I'm sure the millions currently unemployed have fortunes to be worries about.

You lose me at forcing suffering on millions for a plan to prolong the life of our sickest elderly by a few months or years. A plan which isn't even guaranteed to work.


Nice raise. I'll push all in that old lives matter.


Emotional drivel. There are no answers to this problem in which people don't die or suffer. The government must do what is in the best interest of the country as a whole.
GAC06
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Nice thread derail. You've added a lot to the discussion
Goodbull_19
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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

Goodbull_19 said:

deadbq03 said:

Goodbull_19 said:

cone said:

the mass death event has started

we opened up too soon
My question in the "we opened up too soon" line of reason... What else should we have done? To me, it seems as if what is happening now was destined to happen whenever we opened up. I could see that a more gradual approach would be more optimal, but it seems to be that is behavior focused more than policy. At the end of the day, what would delaying opening really do? Just that no opening would mean more of a slow burn than a fast and hot fire? Don't mean to be argumentative, I really would love to hear what I am missing here.
The difference with a slow burn is that hospitals don't get maxed out and can provide better care, not only to Covid patients but also regular non-Covid ICU cases. It's why public health experts nearly unanimously want to flatten the curve.


Okay totally with you on a slow burn! Sometimes to me it just sounds like people are under some sort of impression that we can stop infections entirely (lower the tots area under the curve instead of just flattening) , and I just don't see how that can happen without basically tearing apart society.
I totally agree with this line of thinking, but just one minor nuance correction, keeping the curve flat will likely also lower the area under it because either a vaccine comes out before we hit heard immunity and some some people never get it that would have, or we hit heard immunity and with a lower active case load when that happens you will overshoot heard immunity by a lesser amount. these are not the goals of "flatten the curve", and shouldn't be, just some tangential benefits worth considering.
That is a good point, I could definitely see that. I guess then my reply would be I just don't see those potential benefits worth the other costs such as developmental issues in children not going back to school, mental and emotional issues from lack of interactions, continued disruption in the services industry (which heavily impacts minority and low income communities), etc.

I just want to say, I think this back and forth has been civil and productive and I wish more dialogue between people of differing viewpoints looked like this!
Thomas Ford 91
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GAC06 said:

Nice thread derail. You've added a lot to the discussion
Good point.
3rd Generation Ag
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Off this thread. It is too hurtful.
RGV AG
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Thomas Ford's derail and passive aggressive insinuation of both insensitive and harsh, incorrectly, comments and supposed positions on this thread started to make it one of argument and veiled attacks.

Instead, what could rationally be discussed is what the authorities, employers, and civil society in general could actually do that would protect those most venerable with the least impact on society/economics has not been had.

Without a doubt this virus is hurting the older and infirm more so than other groups. What that should mean is that there should be a direct policy or plan to protect those groups. In my opinion, shutting down, locking down, cancelling schools, and all activities does not do that in large measure without dire collateral damage.

Several countries have issued decrees or mandates that older people and those with health issues be granted dispensation from work. Some have set up care centers dedicated to the older population. The US has done none of that, and it damm well should and or should have. Especially with the information that is accumulating daily. Healthy able bodied younger folks, and those that are will to take the risks should be able to do try and help the rest of society as well.

I don't think anyone on this thread, myself included, has said "sacrifice the old and the sick so that the rest of us (and I am kinda old) can go on as nothing". If my statements and writings say that, and I don't think they do, and or were understood that way, I apologize to one and all, they were not meant that way. I never try to offend on Texags, and if I did in this case, I am sorry.

That being said, that is not being done in this pandemic in the United States is a Pareto Analysis type of action plan. Below is what should be taking place and it is not:
Quote:

Pareto analysis is a formal technique useful where many possible courses of action are competing for attention. In essence, the problem-solver estimates the benefit delivered by each action, then selects a number of the most effective actions that deliver a total benefit reasonably close to the maximal possible one
Doing the above and identifying the actual, most affected segment of society and helping them is what has to be done, and done in a manner that does not "throw the baby out with the bathwater".
PJYoung
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We haven't been shutdown for weeks now and lunchtime crowds disappeared down here. Its amazing how few people are eating out. So people were gonna be hurt economically no matter what.

I agree that bars should be closed until this peak subsides tho. They are the perfect breeding ground for this virus.
SirLurksALot
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PJYoung said:

We haven't been shutdown for weeks now and lunchtime crowds disappeared down here. Its amazing how few people are eating out. So people were gonna be hurt economically no matter what.

I agree that bars should be closed until this peak subsides tho. They are the perfect breeding ground for this virus.


There are several factors at play.

First restrictions on restaurants were never fully lifted.

Second media and governmental fear mongering have driven large percentages of the population to vastly overestimate the risk associated with covid. Those in their 20s alone are assuming an average death risk of 12% if they were to catch the virus.

https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/article/older-adults-perceived-higher-risk-of-dying-from-covid-19-but-were-more-optimistic-in-the-early-days-of-the-u-s-epidemic/

Third due to the economic effects of the original lockdown, millions of Americans have either lost their jobs or lost some income. In general a lot of people have less money to spend dining out.

Yes, there was always going to be economic effects. However, both the governmental response and fear mongering have made things much worse.

Keegan99
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RGV AG
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The deaths are truly tragic and it is a very bad and terrible situation.

Looking at the stats though points out the venerable and those most at risk. According to the death notices in the McAllen paper for today, and taking out the tragic accidental death of a 24 year old and sadly a new born the average aged of the deceased is 71.5 and only 12% of the deaths are below 50 years old.

Whatever is going on, more attention needs to be paid to protecting the elderly, this is decimating the older folks. I live with my 79 year old father and I am extremely concerned.
Charpie
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The fact that the obits today were on two pages in the monitor made me cry
RGV AG
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Sunday's were terribly rough. I am about to read the obit's, very sad indeed. Crushing.

The one person I am close to that works at the hospital in Mission is saying that they haven't seen the number of people coming in that are in as bad a shape as they are, and he has been there for about 15 years. Says it is worse than the winter time when the WT's get sick. Quite a bit of Covid, but a lot of remnants of older folks staying home and not going to the doc. Not many older folks are interested in looking at someone over a computer, I know my dad has some issues that we are trying to get through, but he can't get in to see a doc.
CDub06
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https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/18/texas-coronavirus-hot-spots/

Some stark numbers in south Texas. This mainly highlights the struggles in Corpus, but also brings in some stats from the valley. My parents (In Corpus) know several now that have been confirmed including two in the hospital that aren't doing well.
itsyourboypookie
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I'm not sure about your old people, but my old people refuse to stay away from grand babies and out of Home Depot.

They understand the risk.

And feel like the odds are on their side.

Something about having to bust ass you whole life makes you fearless of a virus most people survive.

Plus they are right with Jesus.
ancientag67
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RGV AG said:

Thomas Ford's derail and passive aggressive insinuation of both insensitive and harsh, incorrectly, comments and supposed positions on this thread started to make it one of argument and veiled attacks.

Instead, what could rationally be discussed is what the authorities, employers, and civil society in general could actually do that would protect those most venerable with the least impact on society/economics has not been had.

Without a doubt this virus is hurting the older and infirm more so than other groups. What that should mean is that there should be a direct policy or plan to protect those groups. In my opinion, shutting down, locking down, cancelling schools, and all activities does not do that in large measure without dire collateral damage.

Several countries have issued decrees or mandates that older people and those with health issues be granted dispensation from work. Some have set up care centers dedicated to the older population. The US has done none of that, and it damm well should and or should have. Especially with the information that is accumulating daily. Healthy able bodied younger folks, and those that are will to take the risks should be able to do try and help the rest of society as well.

I don't think anyone on this thread, myself included, has said "sacrifice the old and the sick so that the rest of us (and I am kinda old) can go on as nothing". If my statements and writings say that, and I don't think they do, and or were understood that way, I apologize to one and all, they were not meant that way. I never try to offend on Texags, and if I did in this case, I am sorry.

That being said, that is not being done in this pandemic in the United States is a Pareto Analysis type of action plan. Below is what should be taking place and it is not:
Quote:

Pareto analysis is a formal technique useful where many possible courses of action are competing for attention. In essence, the problem-solver estimates the benefit delivered by each action, then selects a number of the most effective actions that deliver a total benefit reasonably close to the maximal possible one
Doing the above and identifying the actual, most affected segment of society and helping them is what has to be done, and done in a manner that does not "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

ok man you have made your point... over and over and over, As an old fart resident I appreciate the updates and information. This is some scary stuff going on down here. Would appreciate taking the political viewpoint out of the thread, Thanks PJYoung - good information.
RGV AG
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Quote:

ok man you have made your point... over and over and over, As an old fart resident I appreciate the updates and information. This is some scary stuff going on down here. Would appreciate taking the political viewpoint out of the thread, Thanks PJYoung - good information.
Sorry boss, didn't know or see where I was being "political". No worries. I am out and off this thread.
Win At Life
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We have friends who know people down there and two at his company came down with COVID bad. One died earlier this week at age 55. The text yesterday said the other one at age 70 was on a ventilator with doctors saying he was basically brain dead and urging the family to take him off and let him die, because they were out of beds and others were waiting in ambulances for a bed. (certainly the doctor didn't actually say that last part and that was just commentary from my friend).

Side note: another friend had their FIL die in Houston just two days ago.

If this is no worse than the flu, how come I can't remember knowing anyone in the last 10 years who died of the flu?
Duncan Idaho
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You don't remember the refrigerator trucks during last Summer's typical flu season?
Charpie
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I had another set of friends that lost parents yesterday
PJYoung
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https://www.themonitor.com/2020/07/19/new-orders-expected-virus-death-toll-climbs-40-hidalgo-co/
Charpie
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Cameron County today is stating that they are 2 weeks behind on reporting of active cases and deaths. Saying that the reports of deaths this week will be of people who died from June and July. ****ing crazy
Duncan Idaho
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Any guidance on why that is?
Charpie
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They said that they didn't have enough staff to process the numbers. They now have more staff on loan to them from the state.
HotardAg07
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Charpie said:

They said that they didn't have enough staff to process the numbers. They now have more staff on loan to them from the state.
I've been beating this drum for a while. There is already a lag from when a person is infected to dying. However, from dying to being reported as dying is a longer lag than I think people realize. These are the last two days of reports from Houston:





You can still find deaths being reported from April and May if you look back a couple weeks. It's pretty crazy

Update for today:
cone
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so we'll see the current spike of deaths in September?
PJYoung
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*Video from Mexico tweeted as from McAllen*

Taken down.
Charpie
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Did you see the thread from that nurse that is collecting all the complaints from other nurses down there?
Duncan Idaho
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Link?
Charpie
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Duncan Idaho
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Holy ****
Charpie
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Her twitter account is horrible.

And hearing those reports from DHR makes perfect sense to me. They are flat out awful.
ttha_aggie_09
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PJYoung said:


https://www.msn.com/es-mx/video/estilo/medico-del-imss-en-guadalajara-alerta-sobre-posible-colapso-de-hospital/vi-BB15AKh6

Fake News
PJYoung
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ttha_aggie_09 said:


https://www.msn.com/es-mx/video/estilo/medico-del-imss-en-guadalajara-alerta-sobre-posible-colapso-de-hospital/vi-BB15AKh6

Fake News


Yeah I was just coming back in here to pull that. Not from McAllen.
PJYoung
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Charpie said:



Yeah I saw that this morning. Terrible. That's why I assumed the Twitter video was actually from McAllen.
 
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