Hydroxychloroquine...........

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VaultingChemist
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In reply to DTP02 • 6:21p, 4/28/20
AG
Covid-19 Outbreak and Perspective in Morocco

Quote:
After many studies confirms its ability of reduction of exacerbation of pneumonia, duration of symptoms and delay of viral clearance all in the absence of severe side effects, chloroquine is an efficient treatment regarding the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 pneumonia with the advantage of negligible cost (7,8).
Hydroxychloroquine has probably the same action on viruses as that of chloroquine since the mechanism of action of these two molecules is identical, and hydroxychloroquine can be prescribed for long periods, which would be therefore the first choice in the treatment of COVID-19 (9).
I would also add this blurb.........."On March 27, Southwest China's Guizhou Province and Morocco held lately a video-conference with our Moroccan peers on coronavirus pandemic control , prevention and treatment.
There were eight experts from the Guizhou Provincial People's Hospital and the Guizhou Provincial Center for Disease Control and Prevention and experts from the Moroccan Ministry of Health and Casablanca Medical Teaching and Diagnostic Center participated.
The medical and epidemiological experts from Guizhou ( Southwest China ) answered questions from our Moroccan peers and shared their experience on the best ways to contain the virus, diagnosis, testing solutions and clinical treatment of COVID-19 patients."
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Zobel
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 6:26p, 4/28/20
AG
That's just citing a study from Feb in China and links to all the ongoing clinical trials in China.
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VaultingChemist
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6:32p, 4/28/20
AG
More on hydroxychloroquine.

Quote:
To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.
Veterans Administration study is the anomaly, but they did not begin treatment until patients were severely ill.
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Barnyard96
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 6:34p, 4/28/20
AG
Waiting on K2's response in 3,2,1...
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Zobel
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 6:36p, 4/28/20
AG
91.6% seems rough for a disease with an IFR south of 1%.
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Rapier108
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7:03p, 4/28/20
Article out of Italy on using hydroxychloroquine. I leave any discussions to the doctors here.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilfattoquotidiano.it%2F2020%2F04%2F28%2Fcoronavirus-da-nord-a-sud-1039-pazienti-trattati-a-casa-con-idrossiclorochina-il-punto-sulla-sperimentazione-crollo-dei-ricoveri%2F5783544%2F

In case the Google Translate link doesn't work, here is the direct link to the article.

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/04/28/coronavirus-da-nord-a-sud-1039-pazienti-trattati-a-casa-con-idrossiclorochina-il-punto-sulla-sperimentazione-crollo-dei-ricoveri/5783544/
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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VaultingChemist
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In reply to Zobel • 7:59p, 4/28/20
AG
k2aggie07 said:
91.6% seems rough for a disease with an IFR south of 1%.
If CFR was 10%, 91.6% is not too shabby. Of course, there are not enough details to make any more deductions, but the large decline in CFR is significant.
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Zobel
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 8:30p, 4/28/20
AG
Right but we need more information than that blurb. If they're treating everyone, 91% is bad. If that's ICU patients, good.
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SUag
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In reply to Rapier108 • 9:03p, 5/2/20
AG
Rapier108 said:
Fauci once again keeps trying to put the brakes on hydroxychloroquine because he wants standard clinical trials to be conducted.

He just needs to shut up already. It's not like these are drugs still in phase 1 trials.

I swear if this guy had his way, we'd all be on a Wuhan Style Lock Down for 6-8 weeks and medication could only be used after the CDC, NIH, and FDA did 2 years of clinical trials.


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Dad
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10:58p, 5/2/20
AG
At this point I am going to ask for it once I get covid if I get symptoms.
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Philip J Fry
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In reply to Zobel • 11:17p, 5/2/20
AG
k2aggie07 said:
Right but we need more information than that blurb. If they're treating everyone, 91% is bad. If that's ICU patients, good.


Still maintain that the promise of HCQ is in its preventive properties. Not when the patient is already suffering from it.
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Reveille
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In reply to Philip J Fry • 11:19p, 5/2/20
AG
Philip J Fry said:
k2aggie07 said:
Right but we need more information than that blurb. If they're treating everyone, 91% is bad. If that's ICU patients, good.


Still maintain that the promise of HCQ is in its preventive properties. Not when the patient is already suffering from it.
I think it will likely show both prophylaxis and treatment if started in the first few days.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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OldArmy71
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In reply to Reveille • 10:00a, 5/3/20
AG
Dr. Coates, something I have wanted to ask since the newest FDA directive came out about the hydroxy.

Can physicians still prescribe it to people in their private practice, people not in the hospital or enrolled in a study?

Thank you for all you are doing for your patients and for us!
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Reveille
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In reply to OldArmy71 • 10:06a, 5/3/20
AG
OldArmy71 said:
Dr. Coates, something I have wanted to ask since the newest FDA directive came out about the hydroxy.

Can physicians still prescribe it to people in their private practice, people not in the hospital or enrolled in a study?

Thank you for all you are doing for your patients and for us!


Yes it just increases the liability if you do so it will likely give a lot if doctors reservation or some refuse to do so. I hope not.

I met with a group of doctors last Friday night in a zoom call. We all decided that we are getting good results and will continue. So I had a medical lawyer draw me up a consent to use.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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JD Shellnut
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In reply to Reveille • 10:13a, 5/3/20
AG
Does Texas still require a positive test to be required to prescribe HCQ?
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OldArmy71
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In reply to Reveille • 10:24a, 5/3/20
AG
Thank you, sir!
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goodAg80
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11:05a, 5/4/20
AG
Is the consensus among most doctors that this is worth doing if done early?
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Marcus Aurelius
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4:42p, 5/7/20
AG
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410?query=RP


Another negative study. But given at admit.
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Alf83
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4:55p, 5/7/20
AG
That group seems to have been really sick by the time they got the treatment, very high mortality and vent rate.
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Reveille
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 4:57p, 5/7/20
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410?query=RP


Another negative study. But given at admit.
This on is on admission and once again the HCQ group is sicker than the placebo group. We need one in the outpatient setting similar to the Brazil study.
https://static.poder360.com.br/2020/04/2020.04.15-journal-manuscript-final.pdf
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DadHammer
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 12:06p, 5/8/20
AG
Why so many studies set up for failure? Seems done on purpose to me.
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Sq 17
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12:19p, 5/8/20
Of course there is another thread on this

But what if there were places we could send people who
Are sick but not in need of hospitalization that might be a really good place to do an hcq study seeing as we have hotels and schools empty setting up such a place would be feasible

of course in the quarantine camp thread people thought quarantine camps and experiments sounded like a modern day Auschwitz scenario.
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Sq 17
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In reply to DadHammer • 12:20p, 5/8/20
JMO Studies are failing because currently only the really sick are being treated. Seems like everybody who is positive is being told stay at home and come in when breathing difficulty sets in
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GAC06
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In reply to Sq 17 • 12:47p, 5/8/20
AG
Sq 17 said:
Of course there is another thread on this

But what if there were places we could send people who
Are sick but not in need of hospitalization that might be a really good place to do an hcq study seeing as we have hotels and schools empty setting up such a place would be feasible

of course in the quarantine camp thread people thought quarantine camps and experiments sounded like a modern day Auschwitz scenario.


If only we could get all those people concentrated in one area. Like in a camp perhaps. I agree it's ridiculous to compare rounding people up by force and shipping them off to camps to uh... rounding people up by force and shipping them off to camps.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to Sq 17 • 12:47p, 5/8/20
AG
Sq 17 said:
JMO Studies are failing because currently only the really sick are being treated. Seems like everybody who is positive is being told stay at home and come in when breathing difficulty sets in


That is way more likely than studies intentionally being designed for failure.
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74Ag1
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10:04p, 5/14/20
AG
This Dallas Dr is having success with it but having trouble getting it to her patients

https://texasscorecard.com/state/physician-says-texas-pharmacy-board-limited-coronavirus-medicine/
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beerad12man
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10:50p, 5/14/20
AG
Still good numbers for the docs?
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DadHammer
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In reply to 74Ag1 • 7:41a, 5/15/20
AG
74Ag1 said:
This Dallas Dr is having success with it but having trouble getting it to her patients

https://texasscorecard.com/state/physician-says-texas-pharmacy-board-limited-coronavirus-medicine/

Proud of her for standing up for her patients , it just amazes me that politics will get people killed just out of spite for a drug that is having success.
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DadHammer
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7:57a, 5/15/20
AG
Check the Doc's update from last night. He explains the importance of zinc with HCQ and Azithromycin.
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beerad12man
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8:00a, 5/15/20
AG
Why is there so much push back AGAINST HCQ? I'm not talking about those not convinced. I get if some are skeptical, I'm just saying there seems to be this anti agenda against it. Wouldn't it be better to say "We don't know for sure if it works, but consult your primary healthcare physician as some are seeing anecdotal evidence that suggest it's worth looking into?"
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to beerad12man • 8:34a, 5/15/20
AG
beerad12man said:
Why is there so much push back AGAINST HCQ? I'm not talking about those not convinced. I get if some are skeptical, I'm just saying there seems to be this anti agenda against it. Wouldn't it be better to say "We don't know for sure if it works, but consult your primary healthcare physician as some are seeing anecdotal evidence that suggest it's worth looking into?"


The pushback within the medical community is simply that the "evidence" it works IS anecdotal and the actual quality evidence has yet to show any real benefit.

Outside of the medical community, unfortunately the primary reason is because Trump endorsed it.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Pasquale Liucci
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 8:39a, 5/15/20
AG
You have made your position clear on treating this with healthy dose of skepticism. My question is this...

True/false - every RCT we have seen results on thus far is set up to treat later term patients who, in theory, would not benefit from the proposed mechanism of HCQ.
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to Pasquale Liucci • 8:54a, 5/15/20
AG
Depends on what you mean by "later". Studies have largely been conducted on inpatient populations thus far which of course selects for more ill (or, at the very least, more symptomatic) patients.

And while large studies on outpatient populations would be interesting, they aren't practical in the short term and the clinical utility of the information would be debatable.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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culdeus
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9:48a, 5/15/20
AG
HCQ, even if effective, is not effective for this illness because for the most part the time window where it might actually be effective is not detectable with our testing criteria. It's a classic horse out of barn narrative.

Focus needs to be on treatments after the testing criteria window is opened for patients. HCQ just isn't one of those. Convy plasma seems the most realistic right now.
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DadHammer
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In reply to beerad12man • 10:00a, 5/15/20
AG
Totally agree, no one should get between you and your dr.

Why the heck does anyone care if you take HCQ, azithromycin, and zinc?

They have no right to stop you, it's freaken ridiculous. They are proven Mostly harmless drugs used for decades.

It's only a five day treatment regimen that's really cheap as well.
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