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I get what you are saying, but we're paying Buzz a Top 10 salary - if we're just hoping to and 3/4* fringe prospects and a stud every once in a while then we might as well have just either gone bargain shopping and hope to find the next Beard/BCG/etc... or go with a known recruiter without much coaching prowess.

Paying $4m a year to need to coach fringe guys up -- and then not being able to actually do that the first 2 years - is a colossally poor investment.

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If you get a guy that you know can coach up 3/4 stars, consistently, then that's the kind of coach we want for our program. If you're saving money and going "bargain shopping" you're rolling the dice. And how many "known recruiters without much coaching prowess" are out there? Stansbury and...?

And I would argue that some guys he has coached up. I think Gordon, Jackson and Miller have gotten better. Jackson maybe hit a plateau this season but last year he got a lot better.

Gordon got better. Not light years better, but he was better this year in basically every statistical category. Offensive rating, assist rate, turnover rate, three pt %. He really needs to get better at taking better two-point shots, but with another offseason let's see where he is.

Miller is obviously a lot better. Maybe the most improved player I've ever seen in this short a time from where he started.

This year's freshmen, who knows. Most of us all agree that he didn't handle the covid situation well at all. We basically didn't see anything out of our freshmen other than Diarra. Is that because of how practice had to work this year? because of limited contact? Hard to say, but I'm not going to write off the whole class because of this season.

Now, Chandler and Flagg, I don't know. I kind of thought Flagg was turning a corner last season and then this year he was the same guy he's always been. Those guys didn't improve a lot.

But two years, with one of them being such a bizarre year, makes it hard to really read much into long term player development.

Btw I said fringe 3/4, what I meant is like mid-to-low 4s and fringe 3/4s. Like 100 guys are four stars every year and there's a big difference in the best ones and the worst ones, and you want threes that are close to whatever the cut line is that year.

Nobody is saying he's going to be taking a bunch of scrubs and turn them into all stars. Diarra and Robinson were four stars, McNeilly was only 7 spots away, Flagg was a four star, Chandler was only like 20 spots away.

His first class here wasn't good enough, but he recruited those guys to VT so whatever. His recruiting is already better here in the subsequent classes.

phorizt said:

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wacarnolds said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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bobinator said:

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Ag_EE_88 said:

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Are y'all saying that there is an issue with Buzz being able to evaluate talent?

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Not necessarily. I think there have been some misses for sure, but that's not that unusual. Our program is probably always going to be built on getting fringe three/four stars and coaching them up and then occasionally, hopefully, sprinkling in a truly good prospect.

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I get what you are saying, but we're paying Buzz a Top 10 salary - if we're just hoping to and 3/4* fringe prospects and a stud every once in a while then we might as well have just either gone bargain shopping and hope to find the next Beard/BCG/etc... or go with a known recruiter without much coaching prowess.

Paying $4m a year to need to coach fringe guys up -- and then not being able to actually do that the first 2 years - is a colossally poor investment.

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We hired Buzz Williams, whose career has been built on successfully coaching up 3 stars and 4 stars, because that formula works for a school like A&M.

Results in Year 1 and Year 2 have been lackluster, but I don't think we hired him because we demanded results immediately. We hired him, presumably, to build a program his way and win a bunch of games for a bunch of years.

The salary argument seems like a red herring. We paid him what it took to get him away from a job roughly equal to ours. The amount we're paying him does not change who he is, or what he's capable of.

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Buzz had really highly ranked classes to work with at Marquette. 6 of the 7 guys in his rotation on his sweet 16 team at VT were 4 stars. He's a guy who has won when he has had really talented teams. Coaching up 3 stars is not his MO.

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I guess it depends on what service you're looking at. Blackshear, Outlaw, Leday, and Bibbs, all starters on tournament teams, all 3 stars on rivals. Whatever you want to rank them, these weren't all blue chip guys he won with.

Look his 2011 Sweet 16 team at Marquette. Of the top 7 players:
1 5-star
1 4-star
3 3-stars
1 2-star
1 recruit that had no ranking at all.

I'm not saying he can't recruit, he's doing pretty damn well by A&M historical standards, but I don't think he recruits at a level that allows it all to happen overnight. And I don't think it was ever sold that way. The misses hurt and when you're starting out, the misses probably hurt twice as bad. But I think the grand narratives that are popping up already seem absurdly premature.

Watched highlights of Parker. Really good lower level player, but not sure if he would translate to Div 1. I mean he's better than Aku and McGhee (not saying much) but he's a PF. With spots limited I doubt we offer him a scholarship.

I view the salary as an indicator that we are willing to be more competitive than in the past. Buzz's record in essence required that. If he hadn't come here he might have waited longer at Virginia Tech or from another school. There is PLENTY of evidence that pay neither predicts nor truly incentivizes performance. So discussing it really is meaningless.

The first year breakout by the team was the strongest indication of what the possibilities are. This year it is almost impossible to construct a narrative that resembles that progress. That's somewhat difficult to harmonize until we look around us at the devastation from the virus in all walks of life. No...not the deaths. Those are awful. But how we gave up a year of our lives to it.

It's a weird year. Choosing to try to reach conclusions because of it is an overreach. Just enjoy that we got to watch basketball and get to watch the tournament. Enjoy what you see especially the excellence of play. That's hard work by trans and it deserves our acclamation in a weird year.

Next fall we hope things will be back to normal. Get vaccinated and recommend it to others to help us get there. Expect there might be boosters in the fall for the variants or to reassert conferred or natural immunity. Our mindset on that is critical to a renewed normality.

Yeah Hop had that info in premium. Kid is a scorer, but obviously done against much lower competition. I think big men at lower level are bigger concern than guards though. Like marfo put up big numbers because he was bigger than people.

When do all these transfers start announcing new homes?

Ol Jock 99 said:

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When do all these transfers start announcing new homes?

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April, after the tournament is done and most draft declarations are made. The transfers will likely try to make some visits too, but I'm not sure what the NCAA is/isn't allowing regarding in-person visits

Are there any 45% three point shooters in the portal. If so I'll take one.

wacarnolds said:

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Ol Jock 99 said:

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When do all these transfers start announcing new homes?

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April, after the tournament is done and most draft declarations are made. The transfers will likely try to make some visits too, but I'm not sure what the NCAA is/isn't allowing regarding in-person visits

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No officials allowed at all or that's how it's working in football. I think ncaa moved it out to end of May. It was going to be in early April.

I guess most will want to announce in time to get to summer school so,they can work out with new team

Not a transfer, but a Top 100 Class of 2021 PG prospect, who was just released from his LOI with Louisville. Interesting pursuit with Wade Taylor already on board.

MarcAg said:

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Yeah like I said I don't think we land either, but I was more interested we are at least trying to add pieces despite not currently having room.

CC kid is Zep Jasper. He's a scoring guard.

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LawHall88 said:

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MarcAg said:

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Watched highlights of Parker. Really good lower level player, but not sure if he would translate to Div 1. I mean he's better than Aku and McGhee (not saying much) but he's a PF. With spots limited I doubt we offer him a scholarship.

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He's listed at 6 '8 210 and doesn't have a great perimeter game (shot 19% from three this year). Majority of highlights on him are wide open dunks. He has some skills, but I just don't see it at SEC level and with spots limited we need to be looking at big time players, not guys that are going to play 10 minutes behind Miller. If he could step out and shoot the three you could maybe talk me into it. 6'8 210 is a combo forward but his game is not combo forward game. If he wants to walk on I'll take him. Like I said, he is better than McGhee and Aku.

Ill be more than glad to pull this up in a year if he is a big contributor for us. I just think we can do better with any spots we might have and will be shocked if they do extend him an offer.

Fox also shot 50% from FTs this past season

Thank you lawhall

Has anyone in the DFW seen this guy play?

Feels like we're just a real transfer portal ***** this cycle. We'll wave our junk at anyone who enters the portal.

LawHall88 said:

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Feels like we're just a real transfer portal ***** this cycle. We'll wave our junk at anyone who enters the portal.

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Buzz's assistants are always going to reach out to just about any kid to kick the tires and see what's up. Just because a kid says he has heard from A&M doesn't mean the Aggies will tell that kid he has a spot. If the kid says Buzz had a zoom call with him then that's different and A&M has serious interest (still might not offer).

What does it say to your current players and committed players that we reach out to EVERY portal player it seems