That and all the other law school operators in the state were dead set against it because they knew it wouldn't be long before our school overtook theirs which is already happening

ABCDE said:

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Actually are you are incorrect at least for large animal vets which is the need Tech is trying to address.

"In July 2016, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board adopted a report reiterating the critical shortages of large animal and rural veterinarians in Texas."

Link to full article with quote.

https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/180715k.asp

It is not a matter if there is a shortage in the state and particularly in the Panhandle it is simply a matter of how the need is filled. A&M wants to protect its turf understandably so. Tech wants serve the area in which it resides and has received substantial financial and community support understandably so. Competition is a good thing but A&M is using the state funding issue as a red herring to submarine another state school having a vet school. Make no mistake about it the need has been identified as real.

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The absolute simplest way to address this need is to put together a student loan forgiveness program for a new vet grad to serve say 5 years in a rural community.

A vet graduates and is licensed as a vet. Not a cat vet.. Not an equine vet. Not a cow vet. A vet. An area of interest can be emphasized but at day's end they are licensed as a vet.

Young grads, wanting to start families, saddled with student loans, face a choice: large animal vet in nowhere, TX with not even another vet to take call and significantly less dollars or mixed animal/small practice in larger town for more $$?

Loan forgiveness, other incentives will bring vets to rural Texas. If we need more, add 20% to the already spectacular vet school in the state. Tech is proposing no clinical experience at the school. Students will supposedly gain that at vets in the area.

Rural vet life is tough. Less $$, no relief, less opportunity to help animals because large animal owners typically try everything they can think of to avoid using vet. By the time they do call, things are often in tough shape.

Loan forgiveness, tax abatement, incentives (small towns do this for everything from docs to wind farms) will meet the need at a tiny fraction of the cost. Just the loan forgiveness would be a fraction of one percent of what they are planning to spend on a shell of a "vet school."

This is indeed a d*** measuring contest. A stupid one at that,

Full disclosure: my son is an Aggie vet. But I am a taxpayer and Panhandle dweller who is sick of the rhetoric around this issue.

A link quoting a local vet: Not an Aggie, BTW. Keep in mind local vets are to provide the clinical experience for this priposed vet school. When we Texans already have a spectacular hospital at TAMU. The whole thing is just dumb.

http://hppr.org/post/texas-am-vet-school-tells-texas-tech-state-aint-big-enough-two-us

Tech says it will cost $18,000,000 a year to operate their vet school (which I am sure is the low, low, low end number.

Say we simply gave a grant of $50,000 a year to any vet willing to serve in a large animal practice in the Panhandle-South Plains counties that are currently in shortage.


We could thus support another 360 vets in the Panhandle, without spending a penny on facilities.

Since solutions to problems must come from a good understanding of the situation, I can contribute.

I am a second gen Aggie vet in rural practice 20+ yrs. I was raised in a clinic helping (getting in the way) my father treat colic, sole abcessed, deliver calves, sick kitties, etc.

My fee structure is based on the community that I serve & the typical rural community is broke. A large portion of my small animal clients are on SS or other assistance & large animal clients are farmers/ rancher/ dairy fighting to stay afloat. Suffice it to say, there simply isn't much $ in the pot. A decent living can be made but a ceiling is there.

Most people have no idea how physically demanding & nasty large animal work can be. Burn-out is a very real thing. My whole ambition was to be a "cow" vet. Having grown up day working & helping dad, I think I was well placed for it.

The truth is, the traits that typically yield an intelligent, innovative, refined "Dr" type are rare in the person who can & desires to STAY in the rural environment. There is a reason why all of the small ag communities are fading away.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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LOL...this will not go well for you...

hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school

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If you'd bother to read the thread, you would realize that this premise is bullcrap.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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A&M isn't threatened. If you're so concerned with the financial aspect, it's cheaper for A&M to fill the need than to create an entirely new vet school. Texas and Tech tried to block A&M's efforts to acquire a law school for 2 decades, even though the state having another public option was good for Texans both financially and inthe quality of the school. Tech was absolutely threatened by it, and I know that first hand as a member of Tech Law's alumni association executive board. They were right to feel that way, as in just 5 years A&M's law school is already ranked higher. If the state needs another vet school (which the THECB hasn't agreed with) then I have no problem if Tech starting a new one is the best option. But I'm not sure that's the case. And please stop acting like Tech has some benevolent agenda here; they're trying to create a new vet school for their own benefit.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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It's Texans money... so as a Texan, I would rather fund a rural vet loan forgiveness plan or something like that with a fraction of the dollars Tech wants from the lege to operate their vet school. I would put the remainder of Texas money into improving life for rural Texans. Things like more access to healthcare and improvements to public education come to mind.

If tech wants to operate a vet school without asking the lege for money, fine with me. I'm against spending 90 million of Texans money on something that isn't a very efficient way to solve the problem.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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It's Texans money... so as a Texan, I would rather fund a rural vet loan forgiveness plan or something like that with a fraction of the dollars Tech wants from the lege to operate their vet school. I would put the remainder of Texas money into improving life for rural Texans. Things like more access to healthcare and improvements to public education come to mind.

If tech wants to operate a vet school without asking the lege for money, fine with me. I'm against spending 90 million of Texans money on something that isn't a very efficient way to solve the problem.

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When aTm stops hoarding massive amounts of $ from "the lege" then I guess your subject opinion will hold more weight. As a Texan who's school does not hoard loads of Texans Tax dollars I would think aTm would be the last school that would want to shed light on how much government cheese you are on.

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I think you missed the point. Solving the problem of not enough rural vets can be done much more effectively and efficiently without another state funded vet school. I would rather the state dollars go to a more efficient and effective solution such as loan forgiveness. No problem with another vet school in principle, just don't want the waste of tax dollars.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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It's Texans money... so as a Texan, I would rather fund a rural vet loan forgiveness plan or something like that with a fraction of the dollars Tech wants from the lege to operate their vet school. I would put the remainder of Texas money into improving life for rural Texans. Things like more access to healthcare and improvements to public education come to mind.

If tech wants to operate a vet school without asking the lege for money, fine with me. I'm against spending 90 million of Texans money on something that isn't a very efficient way to solve the problem.

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When aTm stops hoarding massive amounts of $ from "the lege" then I guess your subject opinion will hold more weight. As a Texan who's school does not hoard loads of Texans Tax dollars I would think aTm would be the last school that would want to shed light on how much government cheese you are on.

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"Hoarding"? What in Hades are you babbling about?

hiphopfroggyII said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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hiphopfroggyII said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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hiphopfroggyII said:

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West Texas needs a vet school, its sad that aTm feels so threatened by a school 700 miles away that they would harm the state of Texas and its residents to try and get more more tax dollars in the future. Its not aggies money, its Texans money, be grateful you get as much as you do and let TT and west Texas have a much needed vet school.

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It's Texans money... so as a Texan, I would rather fund a rural vet loan forgiveness plan or something like that with a fraction of the dollars Tech wants from the lege to operate their vet school. I would put the remainder of Texas money into improving life for rural Texans. Things like more access to healthcare and improvements to public education come to mind.

If tech wants to operate a vet school without asking the lege for money, fine with me. I'm against spending 90 million of Texans money on something that isn't a very efficient way to solve the problem.

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When aTm stops hoarding massive amounts of $ from "the lege" then I guess your subject opinion will hold more weight. As a Texan who's school does not hoard loads of Texans Tax dollars I would think aTm would be the last school that would want to shed light on how much government cheese you are on.

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I think you missed the point. Solving the problem of not enough rural vets can be done much more effectively and efficiently without another state funded vet school. I would rather the state dollars go to a more efficient and effective solution such as loan forgiveness. No problem with another vet school in principle, just don't want the waste of tax dollars.

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But my point is that you dont show the same concern when it is aTm wasting the most tax dollars, and that for some reason aTm feels entitled to Texan Tax dollars, its a welfare mentality. Can you name one other school other than perhaps UT that has wasted more Texan tax dollars than aTm? If not, then you shouldn't get in the way when another school wants to better themselves and the state.

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Kinda presumptuous that you think I don't care when A&M is wasting tax payer dollars.

You do realize TCU has their hand in the cookie jar too right?

So your primary concern is wasting tax dollars, which you allege A&M and Texas have done at a sickening level...yet provide absolutely zero evidence of...but you support a solution that wastes more tax dollars than the other because it's your alma mater trying to "better itself."

What a dumbass.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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Flexbone said:

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So your primary concern is wasting tax dollars, which you allege A&M and Texas have done at a sickening level...yet provide absolutely zero evidence of...but you support a solution that wastes more tax dollars than the other because it's your alma mater trying to "better itself."

What a dumbass.

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My primary concern is hypocrisy done in fear, selfishly which harms the state of Texas.


How can aTm hold one hand out asking for welfare then with the other hand scold another institution trying to better themselves and help Texans.

The problem is aTm feels entitled to Texan Tax dollars and has a welfare mentality.

How much of hard working Texan money has aTm syphoned in the last year? 5 years? 10 years?
And what is there to show for it?
Now how much has TT received in the last year? 5 years? 10? years?

TT is getting mere breadcrumbs compared to aTm and aggies have all this false hypocritical outrage about it, sad.

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I'd love to see you back up this assumption of yours. Let's see the facts and figures you are looking at. Put up or shut up.

hiphopfroggyII said:

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Flexbone said:

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So your primary concern is wasting tax dollars, which you allege A&M and Texas have done at a sickening level...yet provide absolutely zero evidence of...but you support a solution that wastes more tax dollars than the other because it's your alma mater trying to "better itself."

What a dumbass.

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My primary concern is hypocrisy done in fear, selfishly which harms the state of Texas.


How can aTm hold one hand out asking for welfare then with the other hand scold another institution trying to better themselves and help Texans.

The problem is aTm feels entitled to Texan Tax dollars and has a welfare mentality.

How much of hard working Texan money has aTm syphoned in the last year? 5 years? 10 years?
And what is there to show for it?
Now how much has TT received in the last year? 5 years? 10? years?

TT is getting mere breadcrumbs compared to aTm and aggies have all this false hypocritical outrage about it, sad.

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Someone doesn't really understand higher ed funding in Texas.

Quote:

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TT is getting mere breadcrumbs compared to aTm and aggies have all this false hypocritical outrage about it, sad.

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Please expound. Do you have links to the latest appropriations and budgets? How much is TT getting per student vs. A&M? How much of A&M's funding goes to state agencies that serve all Texans, such as the Ag Experiment Station?

You do realize that no state agencies are funded or administered through the Tech "system"?

Maroon Dawn said:

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The Panhandle is empty

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Keep thinking that. Keeps all the pansies away.

JimInBCS said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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in a dying part of the state far from any meaningful population or economic activity

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I would guess you didn't graduate with an Ag Economics degree.

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No degree at all I am guessing. Unless a BS. In Ignitance. Good Lotd.

State funding for higher ed is dolled out according to a formula based on the number of credit hours. All state universities get the same per credit hour payment.

So, let's see what the state gets for those dollars. Let's consider the product of higher ed the number of students that graduate and take a look at 6 year graduation rates.

A&M... graduation rate of 86.8%. So, about 13.2% wasted

Tech. Graduation rate of 69.5%. Oh, that is 30.5% waste, more than 2x the waste of A&M.

Good news is state average is 60.9%, so Tech is still above average, so not a complete failure.

Now what about the trend... tech must be getting better right. State average increased 1.6 percentage points. A&M comes in at 1.9, so again beating the state average. On the other hand, Tech is trending down... good from 70.3% to 69.5% over 2 years. Not a good look. Would really suck for tech if the state went to a performance based funding like the legislature is talking about. Oops.