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bmks270
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4:44p, 5/4/19
AG
Musk isn't in business to make profit.

Tesla has only shown ever increasing losses.

And has taken in billions from government rebates and subsidies worldwide, and still losses money hand over fist.


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Pasquale Liucci
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In reply to bmks270 • 4:50p, 5/4/19
AG
Insane.
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ABATTBQ11
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11:30a, 5/13/19
AG
Shares have been moving down the past few days. Down almost 5% this morning. Down 22% since Q1 earnings announcement and 32% for the year.
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bmks270
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5:58p, 5/13/19
AG
Injured worker was pinned between two vehicles and can longer walk:

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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:49a, 5/14/19
AG
They'll put it down as a operating expense.
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TriAg2010
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 1:59p, 5/14/19
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
They'll put it down as a operating expense.


If J.G. Wentworth taught me anything, he won't be getting cash now.
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IrishTxAggie
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In reply to TriAg2010 • 3:06p, 5/14/19
AG
TriAg2010 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
They'll put it down as a operating expense.


If J.G. Wentworth taught me anything, he won't be getting cash now.


Damn structured annuities.
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jamaggie06
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5:21p, 5/17/19
AG
How long does this stay afloat? They just raised $2+ billion and just today announced (via email to employees) "hardcore" cost-cutting measures. They have $500+ million in debt due later this year.

Thoughts on Jan puts? Maybe a calendar spread to lessen to the time decay?
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Mas89
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In reply to Mas89 • 7:59p, 5/17/19
AG
Mas89 said:
Sure you can have a part in the crash. Just buy all the put options you want to. Looks like June 19, 2019 360 sp puts are about $57. Or get 2020 puts. Ante up!!!
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bmks270
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8:44a, 5/20/19
AG
Accounting Fraud? Gross margin reporting does not include repairs to brand new deliveries. Quality control fixes are "internal marketing"

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bmks270
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8:46a, 5/20/19
AG
bear call spreads might be the better directional play bet since the puts are priced crazy.

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IrishTxAggie
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8:51a, 5/20/19
AG
I love following the big money! Basically the only thing green in my portfolio today is the August $200 puts I have on TSLA!
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TennAg
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9:33a, 5/20/19
Y'all are just haters.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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12:03p, 5/22/19
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/consumer-reports-says-teslas-autopilot-raises-serious-safety-concerns.html

Cliff Notes: latest autopilot "upgrade," which adds automatic lane changing is dangerous and Consumer Reports says that it's a serious safety risk for drivers.
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bmks270
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 1:44p, 5/22/19
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/consumer-reports-says-teslas-autopilot-raises-serious-safety-concerns.html

Cliff Notes: latest autopilot "upgrade," which adds automatic lane changing is dangerous and Consumer Reports says that it's a serious safety risk for drivers.


Tesla autopilot flips typical safety features on its head, and that's what makes it dangerous.

It's a flaw in the first principle to use Musks terminology.

Other manufacturers implement safety features in such a way that they kick in and assist or override the driver when an potential unsafe event is detected.

Tesla does the opposite, the expectation is for the computer to be in control and for the driver to override the computer when the driver detects an unsafe event.

Other manufacturer intent - driver in control, computer assists or alerts driver if it detects potential hazard.

Tesla Intent - Computer in control, human assists or alerts the computer if he detects a potential hazard.
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Gordo14
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6:25p, 5/22/19
Maybe consumers shouldn't be beta testers for software that can kill people. But how else are we going to have 1 million robotaxis by next year!?!?
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 10:04a, 5/23/19
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/consumer-reports-says-teslas-autopilot-raises-serious-safety-concerns.html

Cliff Notes: latest autopilot "upgrade," which adds automatic lane changing is dangerous and Consumer Reports says that it's a serious safety risk for drivers.


The guys over at electrek are winning Olympic gold in mental gymnastics trying to justify to themselves why this is not a bad thing and how navigate on autopilot is still really awesome.

"It's not SUPPOSED to be better than a human driver! This is an obvious hit piece against Lord Musk." If it's only an assist, why is it in full control of the car...?
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10:51a, 5/25/19
Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 4:04a, 5/27/19
Musk is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He publicly states that Tesla will a launch a robo taxi service in 2020 and refers to the self driving equipment package, but then when regulators come calling, he says it's merely driver assist technology.
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Red Rover
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11:34p, 5/27/19
AG
So what's a good buy-in point to target?
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bmks270
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In reply to Red Rover • 1:04p, 5/28/19
AG
Red Rover said:
So what's a good buy-in point to target?

Negative, I don't think the business is sustainable. It's a venture cap charity case.
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bmks270
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In reply to [removed post] • 1:05p, 5/28/19
AG
All A&M said:
It is now obvious Tesla will either go bankrupt or will be purchased at a major discount to current stock price (it's just a matter of when it takes place). What is amazing is why anyone continues to hold on to the stock. Interesting study on human nature's ability to believe what they want.

They believe that because their opinion of the product is positive, that the company must therefore be profitable. There are a few who also have an emotional attachment believeing Tesla is saving earth.
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jm94
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11:29a, 5/31/19
AG
The stock's had a pretty flat week. Where's my freefall, dammit?
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to bmks270 • 12:01a, 6/1/19
AG
bmks270 said:
All A&M said:
It is now obvious Tesla will either go bankrupt or will be purchased at a major discount to current stock price (it's just a matter of when it takes place). What is amazing is why anyone continues to hold on to the stock. Interesting study on human nature's ability to believe what they want.

They believe that because their opinion of the product is positive, that the company must therefore be profitable. There are a few who also have an emotional attachment believeing Tesla is saving earth.


This. What amazes me is that Musk straight up said a couple of weeks ago that they were "hardcore" cutting costs or they'd be broke in 10 months. The hidden message there is, "We can't expect to be profitable anytime soon."

I have to wonder what else there is to cut.
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GE
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1:14a, 6/1/19
AG
If this company fails, what happens to the cars and the future of the technology? I know people who own normal luxury cars who have driven these things and describe them as being almost in an entirely different product category as regular cars, and in a good way.

Surely it gets picked up.
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TennAg
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In reply to GE • 7:41a, 6/1/19
They have no technology that any manufacturer can't replicate today.
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oldarmy1
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8:17a, 6/1/19
AG
As stated this stock was a marketing balloon. Been a great short from near initial highs and then again from $295. Once the key $250 major institutional support was broken it signaled the end.

It has only begun its death spiral. It will have bounced as high as $230's but I predict a continued long term trend collapse to well under $100.

The guy who said $10 might have been laughed at but unless an actual profit model is forthcoming it's not out of the question. TSLA has run on more hot air than battery power.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to TennAg • 8:46a, 6/1/19
AG
TennAg said:
They have no technology that any manufacturer can't replicate today.



I have not followed TSLA terribly closely. I suspect that if they remain as a viable company their main revenue stream is going to come from licensing their technology to other manufacturers. IIRC, they consider themselves a tech company first and a auto manufacturer second.

But they have to survive this downward spiral they are in now. Otherwise all that IP is just another asset to be auctioned off.
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IrishTxAggie
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In reply to Burdizzo • 8:56a, 6/1/19
AG
Burdizzo said:
TennAg said:
They have no technology that any manufacturer can't replicate today.



I have not followed TSLA terribly closely. I suspect that if they remain as a viable company their main revenue stream is going to come from licensing their technology to other manufacturers. IIRC, they consider themselves a tech company first and a auto manufacturer second.

But they have to survive this downward spiral they are in now. Otherwise all that IP is just another asset to be auctioned off.


They owe too much money. Their creditors are going to piecemeal every bit of value out of the company when they ultimately file bankruptcy.
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TennAg
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In reply to Burdizzo • 9:14a, 6/1/19
You wouldn't think it from a "tech" company but there's not a lot there as far as licensing. They buy their batteries from Panasonic, they trail badly in the autonomous field, and their energy storage products are about the same as everyone else's.

They do still have some brand value (for now) and a headstart with ota updating/software that may be worth something but these other manufacturers have so much r&d money that they can develop that quickly.
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evan_aggie
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In reply to TennAg • 9:30a, 6/1/19
AG
They trail badly in the autonomous field?

Based on what? From what I've seen as a third party: no other car merges automatically in traffic, drives itself on major highways and can exit based on route, etc.


Not sure what you mean, unless you are speaking about non-consumer ready Uber, WayMo, Cruze R&D efforts.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to evan_aggie • 10:05a, 6/1/19
Correct, their self driving car tech isn't that great. Waymo is head and shoulders above them.

You referred to other companies' tech as "non consumer ready." Truth is, autopilot isn't consumer ready either, but Tesla is rolling out features that are still in the alpha and beta test stages. Look at the article I posted halfway up this page.
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jamaggie06
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10:26a, 6/1/19
AG
And worse. They market it as "auto-pilot" and then put the fine print disclaimer "driver must be at attention with both hands on the wheel, ready to take over at any instant". It's really just a driver assist. But they market it as "self driving" and "auto pilot" and numerous folks have been killed using it.
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Gordo14
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In reply to jamaggie06 • 10:48a, 6/1/19
jamaggie06 said:
And worse. They market it as "auto-pilot" and then put the fine print disclaimer "driver must be at attention with both hands on the wheel, ready to take over at any instant". It's really just a driver assist. But they market it as "self driving" and "auto pilot" and numerous folks have been killed using it.


Their marketing also shows the car driving without the driver using their hands. Then they blame the driver for not using their hands when it drives full speed into the back of a big red firetruck.
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TennAg
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 11:33a, 6/1/19
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Correct, their self driving car tech isn't that great. Waymo is head and shoulders above them.

You referred to other companies' tech as "non consumer ready." Truth is, autopilot isn't consumer ready either, but Tesla is rolling out features that are still in the alpha and beta test stages. Look at the article I posted halfway up this page.



exactly
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