TSLA
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Last: 13 days ago by TxAG#2011
That might actually help the stock price.
CAO And HR resigning.
Puts lovely on this dog
Puts lovely on this dog
Stock taking a beating this morning.
Agnzona said:
That might actually help the stock price.
This did not age well, as the kids say.
TSLA down 7% on the day.
The thing that is so frustrating about Tesla is that this company could have worked if he had just paced himself. Take smaller risks, grow slowly, and don't promise the freaking world in front of any microphone. The cars are incredible, everything else about the company is a circus act.
Would investors save Tesla if Elon had to step aside? If Ford bought tesla, would people still buy the cars? I'm sure we'll find out in 2019.
Would investors save Tesla if Elon had to step aside? If Ford bought tesla, would people still buy the cars? I'm sure we'll find out in 2019.
Why would Ford even think about buying them when they can just buy their engineers and people once the bankruptcy kicks off.
one MEEN Ag said:
The thing that is so frustrating about Tesla is that this company could have worked if he had just paced himself.....The cars are incredible, everything else about the company is a circus act.
What people forget is that they spend an extra 20k more than they should on each car. That's why the tech and cars seem so awesome, any company could do that but only for a little while.
They exact same thing is happening at space-x. Musk is earning genius points only by way underpricing their launches. It's how he "disrupts" but it can't last.
There are a lot of people who could look like geniuses if they sold dimes for the cost of a nickel.
My old man is headed back to space X at the end of the month to train some folks in NDT
no sig
Tell him to get paid in cash before he leavespacecar02 said:
My old man is headed back to space X at the end of the month to train some folks in NDT
TennAg said:one MEEN Ag said:
The thing that is so frustrating about Tesla is that this company could have worked if he had just paced himself.....The cars are incredible, everything else about the company is a circus act.
What people forget is that they spend an extra 20k more than they should on each car. That's why the tech and cars seem so awesome, any company could do that but only for a little while.
They exact same thing is happening at space-x. Musk is earning genius points only by way underpricing their launches. It's how he "disrupts" but it can't last.
There are a lot of people who could look like geniuses if they sold dimes for the cost of a nickel.
SpaceX is on solid financial footing. Musk is earning genius points because SpaceX developed both technology and operational practices that are radically ahead of anyone else in the industry. To say they are just underpricing their launches is just totally ignorant.
There's no reason not to be objective here. PayPal was a home run. SpaceX was a home run. Solar City was a stirke-out. Tesla looks to be heading for a strike-out. That's still not a bad record for Musk.
Musk had very little to do with PayPal
TriAg2010 said:TennAg said:one MEEN Ag said:
The thing that is so frustrating about Tesla is that this company could have worked if he had just paced himself.....The cars are incredible, everything else about the company is a circus act.
What people forget is that they spend an extra 20k more than they should on each car. That's why the tech and cars seem so awesome, any company could do that but only for a little while.
They exact same thing is happening at space-x. Musk is earning genius points only by way underpricing their launches. It's how he "disrupts" but it can't last.
There are a lot of people who could look like geniuses if they sold dimes for the cost of a nickel.
SpaceX is on solid financial footing. Musk is earning genius points because SpaceX developed both technology and operational practices that are radically ahead of anyone else in the industry. To say they are just underpricing their launches is just totally ignorant.
There's no reason not to be objective here. PayPal was a home run. SpaceX was a home run. Solar City was a stirke-out. Tesla looks to be heading for a strike-out. That's still not a bad record for Musk.
The SpaceX deal is still debatable. You sacrifice payload to return the boosters. Furthermore, the still may be a reliability issue on a long term average basis. Clearly you can reuse the boosters, but what if it's a 3-5% higher chance of failure. It's a possible solution to lowering the cost of space flight, but let's be honest, we don't know if it is the solution.
Musk had basically nothing to do with PayPal and the board dumped him pretty quickly.
PayPal- little to do with Musk
Solar city - disaster
Tesla - trending towards disaster
SpaceX - jury is still out.
Do the math on spacex. I mean literally do the math. Some people claim it's profitable but it's nowhere close at this point.
The entire selling point has been that "we can reduce the cost of launch by x%." Like he has with everything else, he just guesses at a number that sounds good and goes with it no matter how big a hole he digs himself. Maybe the actual costs will fall in line with pricing within a decade or so. I'm a fan of Shotwell so it's fine by me. Regardless, I expect blue origin to be the eventual low cost provider.
The entire selling point has been that "we can reduce the cost of launch by x%." Like he has with everything else, he just guesses at a number that sounds good and goes with it no matter how big a hole he digs himself. Maybe the actual costs will fall in line with pricing within a decade or so. I'm a fan of Shotwell so it's fine by me. Regardless, I expect blue origin to be the eventual low cost provider.
Kind of like the model 3 supposed to be an everyman car at about 38k. But the average price sold is almost 60k. Its a bunch of false proclamations and hype.
Yeah, SpaceX has had success with launches and the like, but do we know anything about their financial performance? They're private, correct?
As others have pointed out, he wasn't really involved with Paypal. He did not invent Paypal. Paypal bought his site, WebX or something. Solar City was pure financial manipulation and if you're a tesla fan, you should be pissed they absorbed that disaster into the company.
We shall see if Musk can turn tesla around (financially). Note, in addition to all the promised capex for semis, solar roofs, model Y's, roadsters, etc. the model S is going to need a refresh soon.
I still think, if he wasnt in such a hurry, it could be great. Actually focus on profits and leverage the brand to make money on your high end cars. Then, slowly, as you earn it, invest and develop the everyman car. I think thats one reason for the change from what the 3 was supposed to be. They are constantly in desperate need of cash.
Its mind boggling to me. Itd be the equivalent of Apple, instead of rolling around in piles of cash, was burning cash. Tesla makes a luxury product, with great demand, with a brand like no other (they dont advertise, at least, not in way comparable to other car manufacturers in terms of dollars and volume). How does that not add up to profits and cash?
As others have pointed out, he wasn't really involved with Paypal. He did not invent Paypal. Paypal bought his site, WebX or something. Solar City was pure financial manipulation and if you're a tesla fan, you should be pissed they absorbed that disaster into the company.
We shall see if Musk can turn tesla around (financially). Note, in addition to all the promised capex for semis, solar roofs, model Y's, roadsters, etc. the model S is going to need a refresh soon.
I still think, if he wasnt in such a hurry, it could be great. Actually focus on profits and leverage the brand to make money on your high end cars. Then, slowly, as you earn it, invest and develop the everyman car. I think thats one reason for the change from what the 3 was supposed to be. They are constantly in desperate need of cash.
Its mind boggling to me. Itd be the equivalent of Apple, instead of rolling around in piles of cash, was burning cash. Tesla makes a luxury product, with great demand, with a brand like no other (they dont advertise, at least, not in way comparable to other car manufacturers in terms of dollars and volume). How does that not add up to profits and cash?
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jamaggie06 said:
Yeah, SpaceX has had success with launches and the like, but do we know anything about their financial performance? They're private, correct?
SpaceX is privately held and they do not report their financials. Their financials were leaked in 2015 and showed that SpaceX had achieved break-even after running at a loss in all prior years. Their forward-looking project showed the firm becoming significantly profitable in 2016 and beyond given assumptions about their backlog and expected reuse of Falcon 9 cores. Those assumptions proved accurate.
I have seen zero accusations that SpaceX is experiencing financial difficulty. Their suppliers aren't complaining of late or non-payment like at Tesla. There is no indication they need infusions of outside capital like at Tesla. Their customers are backing out of sales like at Tesla.
Quote:
Do the math on spacex. I mean literally do the math. Some people claim it's profitable but it's nowhere close at this point.
The entire selling point has been that "we can reduce the cost of launch by x%." Like he has with everything else, he just guesses at a number that sounds good and goes with it no matter how big a hole he digs himself. Maybe the actual costs will fall in line with pricing within a decade or so. I'm a fan of Shotwell so it's fine by me. Regardless, I expect blue origin to be the eventual low cost provider.
That's just completely baseless speculation on your part. If you've got the math, please start a SpaceX topic and show us. I propose not to hijack this topic further.
"Leaked". And every Musk company has way overly optimistic assumptions built in to the estimates for profitability and cost. Why would we expect SpaceX to be different? If it were profitable, why not take it public? They could use the capital and Musk has been given extreme leeway for his other ventures. A profitable Musk company would draw far more capital. If he wants to get to Mars, that may be his best hope, though, he'd have to pack a favorable board that would buy whatever he sells them that such an endeavor would be in the interest of shareholders.
Operating at a loss to achieve scale is pretty normal for tech companies, and Tesla fashions itself as a tech company more than a car company. But, as many have pointed out, their business model thus far looks much more like the typical automotive company rather than a tech company. They've invested so much in infrastructure, but I'm not sure where the ROI comes from.
Ryan34 said:
Operating at a loss to achieve scale is pretty normal for tech companies, and Tesla fashions itself as a tech company more than a car company. But, as many have pointed out, their business model thus far looks much more like the typical automotive company rather than a tech company.
So true. Tech companies scale with a single, downloadable product they can sell millions of. It's a lot different than sweating your ass off in a tent to make 5,000 cars every single week ad infinitum.
As for spacex, they likely have to launch 13-14 times per year just to meet payroll expenses. That still leaves R&D, actual rockets, engines, fuel, insurance, rent, capex, transport, contractors, etc, etc. I'm not saying they're as desperate as tesla but there's a reason the financing rounds are still taking place.
If Musk is replaced does Tesla stock tank or bounce?
"Fort Worth where the West begins...and Dallas is where the East peters out!"
Very interesting question which I'm sure many analysts have
It tanks. Without the halo of grandiose vision, disruption, innovation and coolness this stock gets valued as a car manufacturer.
The key is to make him chief vision officer or some bull **** and keep his face out there but apart from everyday execution (and off twitter). Of course any real ceo would immediately recommend restructuring so there's that too.
The key is to make him chief vision officer or some bull **** and keep his face out there but apart from everyday execution (and off twitter). Of course any real ceo would immediately recommend restructuring so there's that too.
The answer's actually pretty simple: if you suck ass at manufacturing, you can't make money as a car company. Tesla, despite a talent for space-age car design, sucks ass at manufacturing. This came out last year:Quote:
Its mind boggling to me. Itd be the equivalent of Apple, instead of rolling around in piles of cash, was burning cash. Tesla makes a luxury product, with great demand, with a brand like no other (they dont advertise, at least, not in way comparable to other car manufacturers in terms of dollars and volume). How does that not add up to profits and cash?
https://nypost.com/2017/11/29/tesla-assembly-lines-are-getting-bogged-down-with-mistakes/
It doesn't stop in the factory, either. Tesla's post-sale reliability problems are very well-documented, as is the circus that they call their repair service.Quote:
The luxury cars regularly require fixes before they can leave the factory, according to the workers. Quality checks have routinely revealed defects in more than 90 percent of Model S and Model X vehicles inspected after assembly, these individuals said...
The world's most efficient automakers, such as Toyota, average post-manufacturing fixes on fewer than 10 percent of their cars, according to industry experts. Getting quality right during initial assembly is crucial, they said, because repairs waste time and money.
Musk and co crammed a lot of sexy Silicon Valley tech into their cars, but along the way they forgot to do the unsexy work of designing reliable manufacturing processes.
And quality is only getting worse as pressure to produce mounts. The stock was up 5% on analyst projections that they will meet production goals yesterday. Today down 5% on dropping 2 colors (black and silver) in order to try and meet production goals. The cars would normally rate at the bottom of consumer reports for autos if not for the cult of customers. But that is not sustainable. After this 1st generation of buyers who would buy a Tesla over a Porsche or Benz?
"Fort Worth where the West begins...and Dallas is where the East peters out!"
Tesla facing criminal probe.
About time that charlatan is shut down.tailgatetimer10 said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-falls-4percent-on-report-elon-musk-sued-by-sec.html
Kinda a big deal