Yep. Yu is a solid middle of the rotation piece but the Rangers would've needed him to be a top of the rotation guy and he's just not dependable enough for that. He was always going to go somewhere with a deep rotation and deeper pockets.

Yea I'm sick of rangers fans acting like yu is not a #1 or #2 guy. It's ridiculous. He's not a middle of the rotation guy. He has had playoff troubles but in the regular season he's been great. With era and strikeout numbers like he has, calling him a middle of the rotation guy is a big insult.

And just to be clear this isn't directed at the poster who just called him a middle of the rotation pitcher a few posts above. I've heard a ton of people make similar comments or say they'd take him at around $15 million per year but no more. No **** you'd take him at $15 per year. You aren't getting him for that bc he's much much better than that.

I understand why it doesn't make sense for the rangers to give him that type of contract. But he's definitely worth it, unless he just ages horribly.

6 yrs for a 31 year old.

I agree... you have 2 hrs of ToR/Ace level expectation, then he is likely a mid-rotation guy.

When Darvish is "on" hes a top 10 swing and miss MLB pitcher that can carve up any lineup with a multitude of different pitches.

When he's not he struggles with command and gets lit up if he misses location. I'm appreciative of what he did here and wish him well, I think he's a good dude and teammate, but I'm glad the Rangers didn't take on that contract.

12 on K % leaderboard for 17.

13 on SwStr% leaderboard for 17.

Dude is "on" a lot. Also don't most pitchers get "lit up" when they miss location?

He's not Kershaw or Sale or Scherzer or Kluber.

This is true.

corleoneAg99 said:

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16th on Fangraphs WAR page for 17.

That's a hell of a middle of the rotation guy.

Still the Rangers were never in and shouldn't have been. Build for 20 and beyond.

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And BBref has Cashner at #14 in bWAR for 2017 (with Darvish at #20). It's not a perfect measure. He's a very good pitcher but he's just not reliable enough to truly be an ace, and he's nowhere near the production level of the guys who actually are aces.

corleoneAg99 said:

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12 on K % leaderboard for 17.

13 on SwStr% leaderboard for 17.

Dude is "on" a lot. Also don't most pitchers get "lit up" when they miss location?

He's not Kershaw or Sale or Scherzer or Kluber.

This is true.

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40th in HR/9 and 41st in HR/FB%. He strikes a lot of guys out but when he doesn't get the K he gets hit a lot harder than the other elite pitchers. Worse yet, he was notoriously bad about tipping pitches, even after he very publicly found out he was tipping pitches. He ran into a team that was familiar with him in the WS and he got absolutely hammered.

Yeah, Darvish just seems like the type of 1-2 that when his stuff slips just a little bit, he's going to get hammered a lot more frequently. That's where I wouldn't touch the 6 years. His "stuff" can be wicked. But it also allowed him to be great without developing some of the finer aspects of being a mlb pitcher.

I think that combo also explains the results we saw the past 5 years. Some brilliance and flash while at the same time wondering why the overall end results weren't better than they were. Once a little sizzle comes off the fastball or a bit of sharpness comes off the breaking stuff, I think his effectiveness is going to tumble harder than most.

The impression I've gotten is... he gets bored... he lets his guard up and gets lit up.

Also... he apparently tips pitches from time-to-time.

With Darvish going NL... does that take pressure off the Rangers to add to the team?

Or does that open the door for the Rangers to think they are in a better position because an AL team (Astros or Angels) didn't get better?

Ag2012 said:

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corleoneAg99 said:

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12 on K % leaderboard for 17.

13 on SwStr% leaderboard for 17.

Dude is "on" a lot. Also don't most pitchers get "lit up" when they miss location?

He's not Kershaw or Sale or Scherzer or Kluber.

This is true.

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40th in HR/9 and 41st in HR/FB%. He strikes a lot of guys out but when he doesn't get the K he gets hit a lot harder than the other elite pitchers. Worse yet, he was notoriously bad about tipping pitches, even after he very publicly found out he was tipping pitches. He ran into a team that was familiar with him in the WS and he got absolutely hammered.

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You can certainly find some stats to back up faulty analysis and/or reliance on small samples.

You get your own island, tho.

Ag2012 said:

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corleoneAg99 said:

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16th on Fangraphs WAR page for 17.

That's a hell of a middle of the rotation guy.

Still the Rangers were never in and shouldn't have been. Build for 20 and beyond.

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And BBref has Cashner at #14 in bWAR for 2017 (with Darvish at #20). It's not a perfect measure. He's a very good pitcher but he's just not reliable enough to truly be an ace, and he's nowhere near the production level of the guys who actually are aces.

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What's funny is I think you'd be challenged to find anyone at FG or Bref who categorized him as middle of the rotation quality.

Probably so, because middle of the rotation is an exaggeration. My point is that I wouldn't want to build a staff around him as a #1, especially not on a six year deal. Between the TJ surgery, the HR% creeping up, the pitch tipping and the way his IP per start has fallen off I just don't think he's a good staff ace any more.

Ag2012 said:

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Probably so, because middle of the rotation is an exaggeration.

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There ya go. All you had to say.

Looks like we're going to be in for a long season boys. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've felt for a long time that Daniels was living off the Goodwill from the Tex and Hamilton trades and a change for both parties might be best. Not really worried about the lack of FA sogings, but more the lack of development throughout the system.

MLBTR has indicated the Darvish-Deal includes a player opt-out after 2019.

If Darvish wants to be a FA after 2019... he can become one.

To me, that is insane. The Cubs take on all the risk, and assuming Darvish lives up to $21M/yr... if he remains healthy for both years, he will likely opt-out. Kershaw will set new level of spending and then, if the Cubs win the WS and Darvish does better than last year, he'll be able to capitalize.

If he sucks... then it just becomes an anchor for the Cubs to suffer through.

Wow. Yeah, F that. I hate the player opt out (at least one that's more than a season early). You sign your team up for a potential albatross and a limit on upside. In most cases, I don't believe it saves enough money to make it worth the risk. I would hope they negotiated a team option somewhere in there.

* He's a stud #2 on any team.

* He's a likely #1 on most teams.

* He's not an ace that your can have a bunch of #3/#4's on in the 2-5 spots in the rotation and be OK because he'll notch a W every 5th day. (read: he's not that much of a difference maker for Texas this year).

* He's injury prone, so if your situation is the above and he goes out you pretty much have a lost season.

* His value is very much in 2018 and 2019 seasons.

* His K/9 dropped to 10 last year despite 843 of those inning being in the NL (where you typically get 1 free K a game against the opposing pitcher).


* He has shown that he's not a pitcher that can fight through adversity like others can. If his stuff is on, he's electric. If he's off, he struggles to find other ways to get outs.

* Statistically he is one of the greatest pitchers in Rangers history but didn't get near the credit he deserved.

* I would have loved to have him back, but that contract is designed for a team that is a division contender this year, and that's not Texas.

* With that opt-out, it's a definite no-thanks. That contract now looks to be designed solely for a team that can contend for a division this year and next. I'd love Yu on a 1 or 2 year deal. But not on a deal where he can opt out if he's good and siphon money if he's bad.

Yu could easily be an Ace if someone could convince him to drop all those pitches he has and focus on 3-4 of them. He gets too cute because he has a big arsenal and he will rarely be on with every pitch in the same outing. If he limited what he throws he would be way more consistent. I like the guy and hope he does well but he wouldn't be worth that contract in Texas unless he changed his philosophy.

So where does Arrieta end up and what kind of deal do you expect?

P&C report this week, correct?

Estaban Loiza's fall ...

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22408066/esteban-loaiza-former-mlb-pitcher-arrested-20-kilograms-drugs


Here is a link with a pic to 27KG of cocaine.

The image:

DallasAg 94 said:

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So where does Arrieta end up and what kind of deal do you expect?

P&C report this week, correct?

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Not sure but supposedly he turned down essentially the same offer the Cubs made to Darvish.

Holy ***** The dude made over $40 million as a pitcher and is now dealing. WTF. So much fail.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Holy ***** The dude made over $40 million as a pitcher and is now dealing. WTF. So much fail.

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$40M just doesn't go as far as you'd think, these days. #Crumbs

DallasAg 94 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Holy ***** The dude made over $40 million as a pitcher and is now dealing. WTF. So much fail.

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$40M just doesn't go as far as you'd think, these days. #Crumbs

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.

It's apparently enough to by 27 kilos of coke.

2 Days.

So far... nothing but a whimper. I hope our young guys step up.

Well they signed Trevor Plouffe.

Lucky #007 said:

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Well they signed Trevor Plouffe.

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Just saw that this morning. That's a definite game changer! I guess if you line up enough retread's, you are bound to hit on a few of them.

Tomorrow.

KT 90 said:

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Lucky #007 said:

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Well they signed Trevor Plouffe.

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Just saw that this morning. That's a definite game changer! I guess if you line up enough retread's, you are bound to hit on a few of them.

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You would think. But we've yet to hit and we sign multiple retreads a year

If only it was 2015, we would have signed a solid utility infielder

watch the Rangers catch lightning in a bottle and pull a 2002 Oakland A's. Yes yes "Get off the Drugs/Whiskey bottle".

But the Rangers can drive a die hard fan to seek self medication in drugs/alcohol! Case in point Game 6 still makes me want to drink heavily!

Crossing fingers for a Kevin Millwood and Bruce Chen to round out this pitching staff

TMACsDaMan said:

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watch the Rangers catch lightning in a bottle and pull a 2002 Oakland A's. Yes yes "Get off the Drugs/Whiskey bottle".

But the Rangers can drive a die hard fan to seek self medication in drugs/alcohol! Case in point Game 6 still makes me want to drink heavily!

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It's been a while since the rangers have had an offseason that made them look forward to the coming year. I think JD is just cashing his checks at this point, empty polo shirt part 2.