The Red Sox traded for Eric Gagne because they were steamrolling towards a World Series. They were not going to stay quiet if they could not get a compensatory pick out of Gagne.

Lots of talented players still get moved at the trade deadline for talent. Something like 9 of the top 100 prospects were traded this past season at the deadline. (And like 5 of the top 30 prospects were traded last off-season.)

The theory that teams would become timid to trade prospects hasn't played out nearly as strongly as some predicted.


p.s. Another part of the 2012 rule change was teams that held on to a soon-to-be free agent got only 1 compensatory pick whereas they previously they got 2.

That ostensibly pushed the opposite direction so that teams would be more willing to trade a free agent for less talent in return.

It isn't just willingness to trade, but what you are willing to give up.

If the Rangers thought they'd get better talent keeping Darvish or Gagne, then they would have kept them.

If the Dodgers would get a sandwich pick for Darvish... might they be willing to give up more?

It is about assets and the value those assets are worth.

Just saw we resigned Barnette to a 1 year deal. Not sure how I feel about that but at least its some experience for the pen

He's a guy I'm ok with. I wouldn't be in the least upset if he left but a one year deal doesn't bother me either.

Lucky #007 said:

---

He's a guy I'm ok with. I wouldn't be in the least upset if he left but a one year deal doesn't bother me either.

---

Yeah, I agree. If he can return to his form from two seasons ago, I'm totally fine with that. A one year deal for a guy like him is really not a big financial commitment. May as well see if he can find the form again.

Ag2012 said:

---

I like the sound of that

---

Knowing the parameters of money... The Rangers effectively could pony up less than the full amount they have. Say they get the nod from Ohtani. Might they offer $1.8M, or so. Leaving the rest to snag a few former Braves prospects or do they go "all-in?"

Dodgers and Giants have met with Ohtani. Rangers have either met with him or will be soon (today or tomorrow?) I'm guessing we know in a couple days.

Do you think they narrow it down to 2 or 3 and then have final courtship... or go straight to a commit?

I believe we are meeting with him today. I thought I saw that somewhere

DallasAg 94 said:

---

Ag2012 said:

---

I like the sound of that

---

Knowing the parameters of money... The Rangers effectively could pony up less than the full amount they have. Say they get the nod from Ohtani. Might they offer $1.8M, or so. Leaving the rest to snag a few former Braves prospects or do they go "all-in?"

---

That would be like a car dealer offering you a brand new Ferrari for $20k and you go back and try to get him down to $19k.

While more and more signs point to the fact that Ohtani doesn't seem wrapped up in the $$$ (posting as early as he did, the teams he's already eliminated, etc) as a big priority, if the Rangers end up winning the bidding, there's at least a decent chance that the fact they can offer double anyone else left in the running may still at least play some role. So don't start scrimping now.

If we are even considering putting Bush in the rotation (which I'm not crazy about), we need more BP options. So no problem at all signing Barnette to a one year deal.

Quote:

---

I just don't understand why anyone would think Bush would make a good starter.

---

• Outstanding control of fastball
• low K/IP makes him better suited to start (primarily because he struggles with location when he elevates his fastball and doesn't get enough swings and misses on it, and also fails to raise the hitter's eye level so they end up sitting on the breaking stuff)
• ability to take something off and still throw 95 (like Darvish, Verlander...)
• Can use breaking stuff to pitch to contact early in the count.
• Can put one in Joey Bat's back up to 4 times in the same game.

Yeah, Barnette struggled at times last year but was solid in 2016. Relievers and bullpens in general are a year to year proposition, so I think there is value to having a quantity of decent arms. You roll through spring training and early in the year with who might look like they have "it", and go from there.

The issue with Bush as a starter is he doesn't have 3 quality pitches.

Some have suggested Banister is fine with a 6-man rotation.

With the thin rotation talent, it was suggested the Rangers could go to a 6-Man rotation (like this is a new rumor). The logic is like this:

Ohtani pitched in Japan where they pitch once per week. A 6-man rotation more closely simulates that.
Ohtani would need limited IP, due to his limited activity in 2017.
Bush would need limited IP.
Perez would benefit from an extra day, possibly improving his overall performance.
Hamels is aging and seemed to run out of gas in 2017.
Fister went 90.1 IP in 2017.

Add to that... signing Minor, who pitched as a reliever in 2017, he would be in the same boat. Throw YoMen or that other minor leaguer in there as options who would be limited in IP.

5 in rotation averages 32 GS. 6.0 IP is 192 IP.
6 in rotation averages 27 GS. 7.0 IP is 189 IP, while 6.0 IP is 162 IP.

If they can convince Hamels that a 6-man rotation would help him be stronger late in the season, I could see the Rangers finally trying it.

Hamels-Perez-Fister-Minor-Ohtani-Bush/YoMen

You would think that would mean either a 5 or 6 man bullpen, where certain guys from the rotation might get a few IP between GS.

Barnette is also a guy that can go multiple IP.

free_mhayden said:

---

The issue with Bush as a starter is he doesn't have 3 quality pitches.

---

Yeah, I think we're going to see a crapload of HRs off of him as a starter.

Quote:

---

Yeah, I think we're going to see a crapload of HRs off of him as a starter.

---

That's why you make him a starter. No free passes, and the solo HR's don't hurt you.

free_mhayden said:

---

The issue with Bush as a starter is he doesn't have 3 quality pitches.

---

How often is the "bullpen to starting role" thing done around the MLB? Feels like the Rangers try it a lot. And it really never works outside of a guy like CJ Wilson. So many things that can go wrong.

Matt Bush has been pitching for what? Two seasons now? Why in the world wouldn't you just let him continue to get acclimated to the bullpen?

jtstanley4621 said:

---

free_mhayden said:

---

The issue with Bush as a starter is he doesn't have 3 quality pitches.

---

How often is the "bullpen to starting role" thing done around the MLB? Feels like the Rangers try it a lot. And it really never works outside of a guy like CJ Wilson. So many things that can go wrong.

Matt Bush has been pitching for what? Two seasons now? Why in the world wouldn't you just let him continue to get acclimated to the bullpen?

---

I don't know that Texas has tried it more often than other teams, we just notice it more as fans.

As for why -- simple... value. Sure his ERA might go up a run or two (depending on how dominant they were as a reliever), but if they are giving you 3x the innings then it's worth it.

Take a guy like Alexi Ogando. You didn't include him in your converted relief story (because it's not as if he was dominant as a starter)... But Texas transitioned him to a starter in 2011 and he put up a 3.5 ERA in 170 innings. That's a lot more valuable than he was as a reliever.

free_mhayden said:

---

jtstanley4621 said:

---

free_mhayden said:

---

The issue with Bush as a starter is he doesn't have 3 quality pitches.

---

How often is the "bullpen to starting role" thing done around the MLB? Feels like the Rangers try it a lot. And it really never works outside of a guy like CJ Wilson. So many things that can go wrong.

Matt Bush has been pitching for what? Two seasons now? Why in the world wouldn't you just let him continue to get acclimated to the bullpen?

---

I don't know that Texas has tried it more often than other teams, we just notice it more as fans.

As for why -- simple... value. Sure his ERA might go up a run or two (depending on how dominant they were as a reliever), but if they are giving you 3x the innings then it's worth it.

Take a guy like Alexi Ogando. You didn't include him in your converted relief story (because it's not as if he was dominant as a starter)... But Texas transitioned him to a starter in 2011 and he put up a 3.5 ERA in 170 innings. That's a lot more valuable than he was as a reliever.

---

And looking at this objectively (trying to), and to add on to the "value" reasoning above you have to also consider that Bush has only been pitching professionally for a few years. He came up as an infielder, so as far as 31 year old pitchers go he has low mileage on his arm/shoulder/elbow. I'm sure they are working on his pitch assortment looking for other viable options to add to his viable pitch options.

Guess we will see soon enough. The possibility of this happening may depend on if the Rangers are able to reel in another free agent starter (Ohtani, Arrieta, etc). Personally, given our bullpen issues last year I'd rather sign another started and leave Bush in the pen.

https://instagr.am/p/BcXvJdTnRIq

Poor Minor, people are going to be mad when they figure out this isn't for Otani

bigcat22 said:

---

https://instagr.am/p/BcXvJdTnRIq

Poor Minor, people are going to be mad when they figure out this isn't for Otani

---

New first baseman??

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/is-rafael-palmiero-seriously-considering-an-mlb-comeback-at-53-years-old-apparently/amp/

The best part is, we know he is clean... and always has been.

I went to high school with Palmeiro's son. While he was very generous with buying new uniforms etc., he was a total d-bag in person. He brought Ranger great Kenny Rogers to a game once, and Kenny was surprising super nice and didn't mind talking to players or parents from either team.

I think a big consideration is that Bush wants to try to start. I think they'll let him work at it in spring training and get stretched out and see how he does. If it isn't working or there are better starters then he will go back to the pen knowing he had a shot. Unless there is some evidence (or no other options) that it is going to work I don't think (at least hope) that we aren't relying on his conversion to be successful.

Ohtani sweepstakes heating up as Mariners and Angels get more international bonus pool money: LINK

Quote:

---

The deals have separated the top three teams from the pack. The Mariners now have $2.557 million to offer Ohtani, the second-highest amount among the seven remaining suitors for the unique talent. The Angels, who now have $2.315 million, are next. The Rangers ($3.535 million) still lead the way. The Cubs, Dodgers, Padres and Giants can only offer Ohtani a $300,000 bonus as a penalty for exceeding their allotted bonus pools in a previous signing period.

---

SEA or LAA

I'm guessing LAA.

If he wants west coast above all else I can't imagine LAA getting it. His other desire seems to be a small market club. Between those two I'd give Seattle the edge.

Would really prefer it if this guy didn't go to the Mariners and become a Rangers killer. But I feel like he would if he went there

I think slotting teams above others because of money is folly with this kid though.

From everything I've been seeing Seattle is definitely the favorite at this point.

But that was said about the Yankees as well.

Would be a real nice Christmas present if Daniels ninja-ed this whole thing and went to Ohtani and said "new ballpark, 6-man rotation, high DH #'s... and we're bringing back your boy Yu."

That's what makes this whole thing nuts with the surplus value of Ohtani... Right now Texas is essentially a wildcard contender at best, closer to rebuild.

But they've got money... and they are a finalist for Ohtani... So while it's still a longshot say in the 20-to-1 range, it wouldn't take a miracle for our rotation on Christmas Day to suddenly be Darvish/Hamels/Ohtani/Perez/Fister/Minor.

free_mhayden said:

---

Would be a real nice Christmas present if Daniels ninja-ed this whole thing and went to Ohtani and said "new ballpark, 6-man rotation, high DH #'s... and we're bringing back your boy Yu."

That's what makes this whole thing nuts with the surplus value of Ohtani... Right now Texas is essentially a wildcard contender at best, closer to rebuild.

But they've got money... and they are a finalist for Ohtani... So while it's still a longshot say in the 20-to-1 range, it wouldn't take a miracle for our rotation on Christmas Day to suddenly be Darvish/Hamels/Ohtani/Perez/Fister/Minor.

---

Are we going to have any other players on the field?

AccidentProne said:

---

free_mhayden said:

---

Would be a real nice Christmas present if Daniels ninja-ed this whole thing and went to Ohtani and said "new ballpark, 6-man rotation, high DH #'s... and we're bringing back your boy Yu."

That's what makes this whole thing nuts with the surplus value of Ohtani... Right now Texas is essentially a wildcard contender at best, closer to rebuild.

But they've got money... and they are a finalist for Ohtani... So while it's still a longshot say in the 20-to-1 range, it wouldn't take a miracle for our rotation on Christmas Day to suddenly be Darvish/Hamels/Ohtani/Perez/Fister/Minor.

---

Are we going to have any other players on the field?

---

Darvish would obviously be a big ticket contract, but the initial Ohtani contract wouldn't be that expensive (on an annual basis anyway... would have to cough up $20 million to his Japanese team though).

You have tickets to sell for a new stadium. Need to get some players on board now to help make that happen

But Darvish isn't happening, been no rumbling along those lines, think he has moved on. Arrieta might be possible if we strike out on Ohtani. But we'll probably go the budget route and get somebody cheaper than Arrieta.