NBA & Other Basketball MVP Vote

16,192 Views | 232 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Iowaggie
AG@RICE
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10:16p, 3/29/17
AG
Rockets fan.

For mvp of the regular season, I'd give it to leonard. Defense is important and he has been the best 2 way player all year. I'm shocked that team is in 2nd place. He has been incredible this year.

If I needed to win a 7 game series, I'm still going with lebron though. He still has the highest ceiling.
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Pahdz
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:28p, 3/29/17
I waste too much time here to begin with, don't need to add to it treating posts like research papers. If I make a mistake I'll own it.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to Pahdz • 10:57p, 3/29/17
Pahdz said:
I have to go back to where these teams were projected to start the season. People were saying OKC was a borderline playoff team.
I think this was just an extreme overreaction to losing Durant. Westbrook, Adams, Kanter, and Oladipo is a really nice group of players. No halfway decent coach should miss the playoffs with that bunch.
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LawHall88
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11:07p, 3/29/17
AG
Leonard had a chance for a statement game tonight, and it didn't go well.
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Deluxe
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8:52a, 3/30/17
AG
For the record, I like aggie1906
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jeffdjohnson
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9:13a, 3/30/17
If Harden replaced Westbrook on OKC they wouldn't miss a beat. It wouldn't surprise me if they would have a better record with Harden. OKC isn't devoid of talent. If you put Westbrook on Houston I think they are worse for it.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:13a, 3/30/17
AG
Deluxe said:
For the record, I like aggie1906
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Deluxe
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:20a, 3/30/17
AG
aggie1906 said:
Deluxe said:
For the record, I like aggie1906
I need to get my premium subscription back so I can use the heart emoji!
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Deluxe
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In reply to jeffdjohnson • 10:38a, 3/30/17
AG
jeffdjohnson said:
If Harden replaced Westbrook on OKC they wouldn't miss a beat. It wouldn't surprise me if they would have a better record with Harden. OKC isn't devoid of talent. If you put Westbrook on Houston I think they are worse for it.
Agree that Houston would be worse with Westbrook instead of Harden. Rockets personnel/scheme is custom made for Harden. Morey/D'Antoni have done an exceptional job.

Violently disagree that the Thunder wouldn't miss a beat with Harden instead of Westbrook.
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Pahdz
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In reply to Deluxe • 12:03p, 3/30/17
Violence, I like it
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jeffdjohnson
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1:08p, 3/30/17
OKC has 43 wins and is averaging 107.1 points per game. Harden is scoring 29.3 on 18.9 shots. Westbrook is scoring 31.8 on 24.1 shots. Harden is more efficient, taking 5 fewer shots per game, with a better FG%, 3Pt% and FT%. Both players facilitate the offense in similar ways with their ability to drive, get fouled, get to the rim, pass or pull up.

I think there is a very reasonable argument that OKC would still average ~107 points per game with James Harden replacing Westbrook. The numbers suggest it. I imagine the total number of wins would be similar.
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Deluxe
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In reply to jeffdjohnson • 3:32p, 3/30/17
AG
jeffdjohnson said:
OKC has 43 wins and is averaging 107.1 points per game. Harden is scoring 29.3 on 18.9 shots. Westbrook is scoring 31.8 on 24.1 shots. Harden is more efficient, taking 5 fewer shots per game, with a better FG%, 3Pt% and FT%. Both players facilitate the offense in similar ways with their ability to drive, get fouled, get to the rim, pass or pull up.

I think there is a very reasonable argument that OKC would still average ~107 points per game with James Harden replacing Westbrook. The numbers suggest it. I imagine the total number of wins would be similar.
Are you "likes to form wildly incomplete analysis of player interchangeability" guy? Or "likes to troll on a slow Thursday afternoon" guy?

If the former, there's no need for silliness like that. Harden is great for the Rockets. Westbrook is great for the Thunder. Trying to say one would be just as successful in the other's shoes is ill-informed at best and ignorant at worst. And barring some sort of bias, how can you not love what both players have done this year?

If the latter, touche sir!
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Pahdz
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In reply to jeffdjohnson • 3:33p, 3/30/17
jeffdjohnson said:
OKC has 43 wins and is averaging 107.1 points per game. Harden is scoring 29.3 on 18.9 shots. Westbrook is scoring 31.8 on 24.1 shots. Harden is more efficient, taking 5 fewer shots per game, with a better FG%, 3Pt% and FT%. Both players facilitate the offense in similar ways with their ability to drive, get fouled, get to the rim, pass or pull up.

I think there is a very reasonable argument that OKC would still average ~107 points per game with James Harden replacing Westbrook. The numbers suggest it. I imagine the total number of wins would be similar.
This is what I was talking about last night, Houston fans are taking this MVP race seriously.
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ATM9000
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6:44p, 3/30/17
AG
Right now, I've got it Harden, Lebron, Kawhi, Westbrook in that order.

I am in the NY area and watch lots of Carmelo. When you see Carmelo play a lot, you sort of understand when somebody's game is so overwhelming that sort of the force of the offense and how efficient it is is sucked out just from some player's presence in it. You see it with Carmelo, D. Cousins, and Westbrook more than anybody else in basketball right now. I think the Thunder should be better than they are, but Westbrook's sort of gravitational pull on their team disengages the rest of the players on the court. I'd never get rid of him because he's so freaking good... but his game is such that the rest of the floor is just a little more disengaged than they would be if they were playing with other elite PG's. Same thing happens with the Knicks...

With Kawhi... great 2-way player and easily the Spur's best and top 5 player in the league and it's not fair that the Spurs have another top 1% elite player in the league yet again after Robinson and Duncan. That said, the Spurs take a step back with no Kawhi but not NEAR what the other 3 teams would.

Lebron and Harden are the 2 most intrigal players to their team's successes in the league this season. They get way more out of their teammates in how they play than the other 2 while still dominating. This season, the race is between them at this point and I don't think it's close. I nod Harden because he's team lead and has clearly held team chemistry together better than Lebron and, frankly, the Rockets have just been better than the Cavs this season with a lesser team.

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Dwide Schrude
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In reply to ATM9000 • 10:13p, 3/30/17
AG
Get outta here with your logic!

JK, this is a very reasonable argument and couldn't agree more with everything you stated.
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Pahdz
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9:22a, 3/31/17
Same thing happens with the Knicks, but yet they're terrible and the Thunder are in the playoffs again. There is some validity to your argument ATM9000, but it's not like Westbrook is a 2 guard averaging less than 5 assists per game being a ball hog all game (notice I said all game, I know he has his tendencies). He's the freaking center of the team and their best player, of course the team is going to be that way.
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ATM9000
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In reply to Pahdz • 11:20a, 3/31/17
AG
Eh... It's not really about being a ball hog as much as it is letting your game sort of overwhelm he other 4 on the court. Kobe had the same effect.

I'm not taking a ton away from Westbrook... It's just that when you have a bunch of guys who don't really do that and one that does and they are all close in terms of statistical contribution, I'm taking those guys over a team life sucker.
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CactusThomas
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In reply to Pahdz • 2:06p, 4/2/17
AG
Pahdz said:
He's the freaking center of the team and their best player, of course the team is going to be that way.


He's only their best player because kd bailed on his ass.
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Pahdz
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In reply to CactusThomas • 4:59p, 4/2/17
What's your point?
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Deluxe
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In reply to ATM9000 • 3:29p, 4/3/17
AG
Interesting abstract theory that I'm sure is getting plenty of "stars" from the Rockets/Spurs contingent but obviously it has no concrete merit.

Russ's PER advantage over the rest of the league this year has only been matched by Lebron's best seasons and Steph's unanimous MVP season. Carmelo never came close to a 30 PER. To compare 2016-17 Russ/Thunder to some of the old Carmelo Knicks teams has some surface-level appeal, but is silly in the grand scheme of things.

(Note: I'm not claiming Russ's PER advantage should automatically make him MVP... though it seems like things are trending in that direction. Just pointing it out to stick a fork in the Carmelo comparisons)

It's funny because I would never disrespect Rockets/Spurs fans by claiming their teams would be better with Superstar A inserted for Harden or Kawhi. They know their teams better than I do and it would be silly of me to discredit the spectacular seasons that Harden and Kawhi are having. But folks seem to love to do that to Russ/Thunder, despite not watching them nearly as much as Pahdz and I have this year. Pretty comical stuff on this thread.
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Iowaggie
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3:31p, 4/3/17
AG
My guess:

Harden wins.
2nd) Westbrook
3rd) LeBron
4th) Kawhi
5th) Isaiah Thomas
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Guitarsoup
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3:34p, 4/3/17
AG
Russ' usage is 42%. No one has ever broken 39% and the only three seasons over 38 were:

1. Kobe's 06 season where he averaged 35/5/5 while starting next to Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown.
2. Russ' 15 season when that little B Durant was injured and Russ put up 28/8/7.
3. Jordan's 87 season when he put up 37/5/5 and started with Gene Banks, Dave Corzine and Ed Cureton.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 3:45p, 4/3/17
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Russ' usage is 42%. No one has ever broken 39% and the only three seasons over 38 were:

1. Kobe's 06 season where he averaged 35/5/5 while starting next to Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown.
2. Russ' 15 season when that little B Durant was injured and Russ put up 28/8/7.
3. Jordan's 87 season when he put up 37/5/5 and started with Gene Banks, Dave Corzine and Ed Cureton.
I don't know if that should be used for or against him.
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Guitarsoup
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3:50p, 4/3/17
AG
Harden: 34%
Kawhi: 31%
Bron: 30% (lowest since his second season)
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Head Ninja In Charge
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4:48p, 4/3/17
AG
I've always liked this board because this group was always too smart to try to utilize the whole 'If you switch out Player A for Player B, they'd be so much better/worse...' angle...
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Head Ninja In Charge • 4:49p, 4/3/17
AG
Head Ninja In Charge said:
I've always liked this board because this group was always too smart to try to utilize the whole 'If you switch out Player A for Player B, they'd be so much better/worse...' angle...
If you switched out Pat Bev for Westbrook, I think the Rockets could win 3-4 more games a year.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 4:50p, 4/3/17
AG
-_-
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Deluxe
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 5:14p, 4/3/17
AG
aggie1906 said:
Head Ninja In Charge said:
I've always liked this board because this group was always too smart to try to utilize the whole 'If you switch out Player A for Player B, they'd be so much better/worse...' angle...
If you switched out Pat Bev for Westbrook, I think the Rockets could win 3-4 more games a year.
I still like aggie1906
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Deluxe • 5:16p, 4/3/17
AG
Deluxe said:
aggie1906 said:
Head Ninja In Charge said:
I've always liked this board because this group was always too smart to try to utilize the whole 'If you switch out Player A for Player B, they'd be so much better/worse...' angle...
If you switched out Pat Bev for Westbrook, I think the Rockets could win 3-4 more games a year.
I still like aggie1906
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Forum Troll
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In reply to Head Ninja In Charge • 12:24p, 4/4/17
AG
Head Ninja In Charge said:
Gramercy Riffs said:
If that's a product of scheme, then Westbrook's rebounds are a product of his teammates letting him get boards or him just flat out stealing rebounds from them when no opponent is near. From the other thread:

gougler08 said:


You're joking with this, right? Last I checked, there were 10 guys on the floor. Guessing the other team is on letting him snag those boards too so he can pad those stats? FOH.
While its kind of a silly video, stats show Westbrook is easily the league leader in uncontested rebounds per game at 8.2 or 8.3.
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TexagChris17
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11:09p, 4/4/17
AG
Russell Westbrook is now tied for most triple-doubles in a season.
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Mr.Bond
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11:20p, 4/4/17
AG
And his team will remain a 6 seed
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TexagChris17
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 11:26p, 4/4/17
AG
Mr.Bond said:
And his team will remain a 6 seed
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 11:28p, 4/4/17
AG
Mr.Bond said:
And his team will remain a 6 seed


I almost hope Westbrook wins it so Harden can put it on his ass in round one ala Dream to Robinson in 95.
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Deluxe
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:41a, 4/5/17
AG
aggie1906 said:
Mr.Bond said:
And his team will remain a 6 seed


I almost hope Westbrook wins it so Harden can put it on his ass in round one ala Dream to Robinson in 95.
I could be wrong but I don't think we'll know who the MVP is in time for the first round. The Dream vs Robinson matchup was in the WCF.
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