Please star who you would select
NBA & Other Basketball MVP Vote
19,330 Views |
232 Replies |
Last: 7 yr ago by Iowaggie
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Lebron James
Kawhi Leonard
Other
That's just about proportionate to the number of fans of each of those teams on here
Do any SAS fans think Harden should win it? What about Houston for Leonard?
SAS fan.aggie1906 said:
Do any SAS fans think Harden should win it? What about Houston for Leonard?
First off,I think Harden is having a fantastic season with respect to both statistics and the more intangible "MVPness." He's the engine that makes the beautiful Houston offense so damn lethal.
Now Harden or Leonard? I'd take Leonard by a nose. Yes, he doesn't have Harden's passing and offense-running abilities, but Leonard's scoring numbers are about as good (he's averaging a few less ppg on moderately more efficient shooting, which is about a wash) and his defense is night and day better. The lengths that coaches go to avoid Leonard are ridiculous. What other player in the league causes coaches to stash their best offensive players in the corner so that the rest of the team can play 4 on 4? That SHOULD be worth something. That said, I understand that the voters put far more weight on offense, so, if you're going to pick a player using recent voting precedent, Harden should get it over Leonard.
However, it's never to late for the voters to start valuing contributions on both sides of the court, and if they wise up, give me Leonard all day!
SAS here, I went non-homer but with Lebron.
It's hard for me to vote for a one-way player considering the current competition, but I emphasize defense a lot more than most.
It's hard for me to vote for a one-way player considering the current competition, but I emphasize defense a lot more than most.
Only LA has the played better D since Christmas, and the Cavs are streaking at the right time. Put me down for Lebron too.
They have a losing record since the All Star break, and they're getting destroyed in the games that they lose. Their last 4 losses have all been by double digits, and 2 of them were by 29+ pointsQuote:
the Cavs are streaking at the right time
Sounds like a streak to me.Deputy Travis Junior said:They have a losing record since the All Star break, and they're getting destroyed in the games that they lose. Their last 4 losses have all been by double digits, and 2 of them were by 29+ pointsQuote:
the Cavs are streaking at the right time
IMO:
Harden has it as of today.
Kawhi/Russ could still strongly factor in if the Spurs/Thunder finish hot.
Unjust, but I think Harden sitting a few games to rest his wrist would hurt his buzz and slightly crack the window open for Kawhi/Russ.
Harden has it as of today.
Kawhi/Russ could still strongly factor in if the Spurs/Thunder finish hot.
Unjust, but I think Harden sitting a few games to rest his wrist would hurt his buzz and slightly crack the window open for Kawhi/Russ.
Cavs are streaking right out of 1st in the East. LeBron also has too many DNP-Rest games to be MVP. It is Leonard or Harden. My guess is taking Harden away from HOU hurts more than taking Leonard away from SAS. I would vote Harden.
Head Ninja In Charge
Joined:
Oct 10, 2005
Posts:
19,026
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Houston for Westbrook here. Obviously Harden is having an incredible season and I wouldn't be mad at co-MVPs. But I think a lot can be said for the job D'Antoni has done and the job the front office has done to surround Harden with the absolute right pieces. Getting rid of Dwight. Adding Gordon, Lou Williams, etc.aggie1906 said:
Do any SAS fans think Harden should win it? What about Houston for Leonard?
I've never seen anyone do what Russell Westbrook is doing in my lifetime. I've seen seasons like James Harden's before. And for the Thunder to maintain one the 10 best records in the NBA after having lost Kevin Durant in his prime? Come on.
I'll argue you've never seen anyone do what James is doing with his combination of assists, scoring, and being efficient.
Magic had 8 seasons for 11+ APG. His highest scoring avg - 23.9. In 87 Magic had a lower PER & Lower TS% than James this year. Oh and fewer rebounds.
2 time MVP Nash had 5 seasons of 11+ APG. He never broke 20 PPG.Same goes for Stockon.
Chris Paul has 2 seasons of 11+ APG. His highest scoring avg - 22.8.
MJ & Lebron never came close on assists.
Kidd never hit 11 APG even in his finals run year
You'd have to go back to Oscar Robinson to find someone average 11+ APG & 29+ PPG. Oh course he was nowhere near as efficient as Harden with much lower PER & TS% in a different game really.
The most similar season I can find not dating back to the Big O in the 1960s is Westbrook this year. Then he is short of the 11 APG and isn't doing it as efficient.
All that said. I would be unhappy if Harden didn't win it, but I fully understand why people would vote for Russell. Everyone else IMO is playing for 3rd.
Magic had 8 seasons for 11+ APG. His highest scoring avg - 23.9. In 87 Magic had a lower PER & Lower TS% than James this year. Oh and fewer rebounds.
2 time MVP Nash had 5 seasons of 11+ APG. He never broke 20 PPG.Same goes for Stockon.
Chris Paul has 2 seasons of 11+ APG. His highest scoring avg - 22.8.
MJ & Lebron never came close on assists.
Kidd never hit 11 APG even in his finals run year
You'd have to go back to Oscar Robinson to find someone average 11+ APG & 29+ PPG. Oh course he was nowhere near as efficient as Harden with much lower PER & TS% in a different game really.
The most similar season I can find not dating back to the Big O in the 1960s is Westbrook this year. Then he is short of the 11 APG and isn't doing it as efficient.
All that said. I would be unhappy if Harden didn't win it, but I fully understand why people would vote for Russell. Everyone else IMO is playing for 3rd.
Head Ninja In Charge
Joined:
Oct 10, 2005
Posts:
19,026
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Meh. If you're one of those who is a proponent that "It's just two more rebounds, what's the big deal?" or "The triple-double is kind of an arbitrary stat anyways.", then you also have to believe that this 2,000/2,000 stat has to be one of the most arbitrary benchmarks there is. Points Assisted On? Come on. That's a product of scheme as much as anything. We're jacking up 40 a game for crying out loud.
To me, a more impressive sell would be to just say he's scored 2,000 points and leads the league in assists.
To me, a more impressive sell would be to just say he's scored 2,000 points and leads the league in assists.
Head Ninja In Charge said:
Meh. If you're one of those who is a proponent that "It's just two more rebounds, what's the big deal?" or "The triple-double is kind of an arbitrary stat anyways.", then you also have to believe that this 2,000/2,000 stat has to be one of the most arbitrary benchmarks there is. Points Assisted On? Come on. That's a product of scheme as much as anything. We're jacking up 40 a game for crying out loud.
To me, a more impressive sell would be to just say he's scored 2,000 points and leads the league in assists.
Then why do you care so much about the triple double Westbrook is averaging
Head Ninja In Charge
Joined:
Oct 10, 2005
Posts:
19,026
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Because to me, a triple-double is a more tangible stat line. A point is a point, a rebound is a rebound, and an assist is an assist. Points Assisted On is heavily reliant on scheme and game planning. Ricky Rubio is 5th in the league in assists per and I bet more than just the four guys ahead of him on the list are going to have a higher Points Assisted On because Thibs isn't going to have his team bombing away from three-point land constantly.
It's also probably likely that Russell Westbrook joins the "2,000/2,000" club this season as well so I don't see what the big deal is. Can say it's safe that Harden won't average a triple-double by season's end.
Anyways, like I said, co-MVPs is fine with me. But if I had to pick one, it'd be Westbrook.
It's also probably likely that Russell Westbrook joins the "2,000/2,000" club this season as well so I don't see what the big deal is. Can say it's safe that Harden won't average a triple-double by season's end.
Anyways, like I said, co-MVPs is fine with me. But if I had to pick one, it'd be Westbrook.
Assists in general are a terrible stat. It relies on the other player making a play. Harden get Ariza 7 wide open 3 point looks and only get 1 assist. Then he could trip, flip it to a guard Anderson, he knocks down a 30 footer, and get the same credit on the stat line.
Checking in as one of a handful of Thunder fans here, obvious vote for Russ
Russ is trying to get some votes tonight.
I know most of the Mavs fans are loooooong gone, but who are y'all "voting" for?
I have to go back to where these teams were projected to start the season. People were saying OKC was a borderline playoff team. I know it's not always pretty with Russ, and I will give Harden that he's more efficient, but no one means more to his team than Russell Westbrook, period.
aggie1906 said:
I know most of the Mavs fans are loooooong gone, but who are y'all "voting" for?
Head Ninja In Charge said:
Meh. If you're one of those who is a proponent that "It's just two more rebounds, what's the big deal?" or "The triple-double is kind of an arbitrary stat anyways.", then you also have to believe that this 2,000/2,000 stat has to be one of the most arbitrary benchmarks there is. Points Assisted On? Come on. That's a product of scheme as much as anything. We're jacking up 40 a game for crying out loud.
If that's a product of scheme, then Westbrook's rebounds are a product of his teammates letting him get boards or him just flat out stealing rebounds from them when no opponent is near. From the other thread:
gougler08 said:
Quote:
To me, a more impressive sell would be to just say he's scored 2,000 points and leads the league in assists.
Cool - then say it that way instead. Whatever works.
Pretty much everyone thought the Thunder were better than the Rockets.Pahdz said:
I have to go back to where these teams were projected to start the season. People were saying OKC was a borderline playoff team. I know it's not always pretty with Russ, and I will give Harden that he's more efficient, but no one means more to his team than Russell Westbrook, period.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2652924-nba-schedule-2016-17-team-by-team-record-predictions-and-playoff-odds
Oklahoma City Thunder
Projected Record: 46-36
Playoff Chances: 75%
Championship Odds: 7-1
Houston Rockets
Projected Record: 42-40
Playoff Chances: 55%
Championship Odds: 50-1
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/
Oklahoma City Thunder
Projected Record: 50-32
Playoff Chances: 83%
Championship Chances: 3%
Houston Rockets
Projected Record: 45-37
Playoff Chances: 68%
Championship Odds: 1%
Pahdz said:
I have to go back to where these teams were projected to start the season. People were saying OKC was a borderline playoff team. I know it's not always pretty with Russ, and I will give Harden that he's more efficient, but no one means more to his team than Russell Westbrook, period.
Houston is grossly over preformed as well
I forgot how sensitive peeps are about this topic, esp when one of their own is involved.
I guess I'll stand corrected from your two sources, I'm going off general talking head consensus. Of course I'm Team Westbrook, but it's not like Harden is an awful choice either. If Russ doesn't win, he hopefully will have the triple double average, which in 20 years will be remembered far more than who won MVP, but I guarantee he'd rather have the hardware.
Deluxe said:
I forgot how sensitive peeps are about this topic, esp when one of their own is involved.
It appears the Houston guys have an array of links saved to their favorites to thrwat any arguments.
Saved? Ever hear of this little thing called google? It took me seconds to put facts out there. No big deal.Pahdz said:Deluxe said:
I forgot how sensitive peeps are about this topic, esp when one of their own is involved.
It appears the Houston guys have an array of links saved to their favorites to thrwat any arguments.
Head Ninja In Charge
Joined:
Oct 10, 2005
Posts:
19,026
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Gramercy Riffs said:
If that's a product of scheme, then Westbrook's rebounds are a product of his teammates letting him get boards or him just flat out stealing rebounds from them when no opponent is near. From the other thread:gougler08 said:
You're joking with this, right? Last I checked, there were 10 guys on the floor. Guessing the other team is on letting him snag those boards too so he can pad those stats? FOH.