If Westbrook wins this will only be the second time an MVP winner lost in the first round of the playoffs. Dirk in 2006.

DrZ said:

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If Westbrook wins this will only be the second time an MVP winner lost in the first round of the playoffs. Dirk in 2006.

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Thought I heard something like he's the first MVP not in a top 3/4 seed since the early 80s?

aggie1906 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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primomosquito said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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From Harden dishes out way more assists as he is the point guard in DAntoni's system.

Harden and Kawhi score about the same number of points per minute played.

Kawhi shot significantly better from the field, from three and from the line than Harden did.

While PER is significantly weighted towards offensive stats, Kawhi still had a better PER than Harden.

The distance between Harden and Kawhi on offense is much smaller than the distance between Kawhi and Harden on defense. No one that knows anything about basketball could realistically say otherwise.

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Lots of people that know basketball better than you or I will decide that. Are you calling Kawhi for MVP? Based on your logic, even with a bias towards offense, I would expect the argument to be between Kawhi and Westrbook, not Westbrook and Harden. I guarantee Kawhi doesn't finish 1st or 2nd. But what do I know?

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I'm not calling anyone for the award. I do think Russ will win, but I think there are great arguments for all four.

But the point I made that you highlighted is unquestionable. Harden is much further from Leonard defensively than Leonard is from Harden offensively. It's really not debatable.

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You must be referring to 2014/2015 Leonard. Kawhi's defense took a step back with his improved offense.

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Yeah, not really. The biggest difference is that teams are isolating him to prevent him from disrupting their defense and just playing 4-on-4 while ignoring their best wing player. That doesn't happen to anyone else.

From The Ringer this week:

The two-time DPOY winner Kawhi Leonard fills the role of both LeBron James and himself here: He is the best individual defensive player on the best defensive team in basketball that's the entire argument. Watching Leonard D up his opponent, it's almost compelling enough. No other defensive player exudes the air of inevitability that Kawhi does the shot clock becomes a countdown to how quickly he can force the ball out of his counterpart's hands, one way or another.

So even if his defense has declined some, he is still the best wing defender in the entire NBA and at worst a top 3 defender.

In any event, my statement still stands. At worst, if you put Kawhi behind Gobert and Dray for 3rd in the NBA in defense, he is still ridiculously above anything Harden could ever dream of defensively while also top 10 in scoring and offensive rating and 3rd in PER. So easily a top 10-15 offensive player while being unquestionably the top wing defender in the NBA.

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing defenders to set up his teammates and running the pick and roll, and he's the best by far at the latter.

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[Kawhi]averaged better than a point per possession on the pick-and-roll, an elite mark just above Harden and way above Westbrook.

Guitarsoup said:

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Quote:

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing defenders to set up his teammates and running the pick and roll, and he's the best by far at the latter.

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[Kawhi]averaged better than a point per possession on the pick-and-roll, an elite mark just above Harden and way above Westbrook.

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And how many assists did he created with the pick and roll?

mazag08 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Quote:

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing defenders to set up his teammates and running the pick and roll, and he's the best by far at the latter.

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[Kawhi]averaged better than a point per possession on the pick-and-roll, an elite mark just above Harden and way above Westbrook.

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And how many assists did he created with the pick and roll?

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And how many wins did Harden create with those assists?

mazag08 said:

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing cheap fouls and making lots of points from the line & then having the other team nervous to defend him as every time they get near him it's a whistle. .

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FIFY.

Serioulsy, Harden is obviously super talented, but his acting is crazy dumb and IMO cheapens his game.

Lmaooooo

QBCade said:

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mazag08 said:

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing cheap fouls and making lots of points from the line & then having the other team nervous to defend him as every time they get near him it's a whistle. .

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FIFY.

Serioulsy, Harden is obviously super talented, but his acting is crazy dumb and IMO cheapens his game.

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He's not acting. He's putting defenders, even elite ones, in bad position and he takes advantage of it.

primomosquito said:

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QBCade said:

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mazag08 said:

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Harden spends the majority of the game drawing cheap fouls and making lots of points from the line & then having the other team nervous to defend him as every time they get near him it's a whistle. .

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FIFY.

Serioulsy, Harden is obviously super talented, but his acting is crazy dumb and IMO cheapens his game.

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He's not acting. He's putting defenders, even elite ones, in bad position and he takes advantage of it.

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He's got amazing skillz and definitely does what you say. However, when his head flies back like 'Rock'em Sock'em robots because his arm is touched... Its acting that only soccer players can compare to.

Just a reminder - it's not too late to un-star your vote for James Harden.

I feel like at this point in the playoffs, the regular season has been a lot forgotten.

Not sure if people will care as much as they would have in April when this finally gets announced.

Count me in the crowd that would rather them announce the awards in April still. It would have drum up a lot more hype in the playoffs.

Awards show for all awards is June 26. Wtf is the point by then?

They need to move it to before the playoffs start.

I forgot the MVP award even existed.

Probably already mentioned but if they are going to wait this long to reveal the awards, then playoffs should matter.

Not suprising unfortunately.

Harden has one of the best offensive seasons EVER by accounting for over 4500 total points and leads his team to 55 wins.

But nah, let's give it to the guy with a ****ty 47 win team who averaged a triple double with by far the highest uncontested rebound rate per game this season and an incredibly high usage rate.