From Harden's mom's instagram.
Mr.Bond said:
I didn't create the statistics dumbass I simply shared what espn said. And I said the WAR is interesting. Right after my post someone shared a link showing WAR is irrelevant for the NBA due to varying factors
There were 9 teams in the NBA. Everyone was dropping 30 a game. Wilt averaged 50 and 25 for crying out loud.WES2006AG said:
Oscar finished 3rd in MVP voting the year he averaged a triple-double. This shows people knew that triple-doubles were a garbage way to compare players back then and it still is today.
Not to mention that his team wont win 50 games this year. I find it hard to believe that a ball hogging player who can't get his team to 50 wins or above the 6th seed has any claim to the MVP.
AggieSportsGuy said:
He's "ball-hogging" because he creates. You have to put yourself in Donovan's shoes with that roster and ask yourself "if Russ didn't have such a high usage rate, would be be winning more or less?"
Nothing to do with MVP but more a counter to the ball-hog comment. If I have a player like Russ and an lololol rest of the roster I want him have the ball that much. It'd be like if I had MJ on his early Bulls teams.
Definitely for me.aggie1906 said:
Based on the voting TA-NBA & Other BBall awards the MVP to James Hard. Kawhi is runner up. Westbrook is a distant 3rd. Lebron received a few votes. Finally, we have 1 vote for other. At this point, I have no idea who it would be for. Maybe Thomas?
Guitarsoup said:
Harden dishes out way more assists as he is the point guard in DAntoni's system.
Harden and Kawhi score about the same number of points per minute played.
Kawhi shot significantly better from the field, from three and from the line than Harden did.
While PER is significantly weighted towards offensive stats, Kawhi still had a better PER than Harden.
The distance between Harden and Kawhi on offense is much smaller than the distance between Kawhi and Harden on defense. No one that knows anything about basketball could realistically say otherwise.
LOLDavid_Puddy said:
That's insane that a poster thinks that there is some big offensive gap between Kawhi & Harden. As a Spurs fan, I'm not going to say that Kawhi is a better offensive player than Harden (even though it's pretty close), Harden doesn't have as good of a low post game as Kawhi.
Agreed, but that is mainly due to the system he plays in. If he were asked to back down defenders and score that way he would. When James is asked to do so he is generally pretty successful.David_Puddy said:
What is funny about that? Harden gets most of his points driving to the basket or pulling up for jump shots. Not with his back to the basket.
mazag08 said:
Yes, Harden and Kawhi have a huge gap in offense. Harden doesn't ever get wide open 3's from someone driving the lane and dishing. His are all self created. Harden doesn't have any semblance of an inside out game that leads to him cutting the lane for easy layups or being kicked out to while open. Harden spends the majority of the game drawing defenders to set up his teammates and running the pick and roll, and he's the best by far at the latter. If Harden was in a system that was designed to get him open, he would score even more than he does. Instead, he spends a lot of the game as the second or third scoring option, and most of his scores are from creating for himself.. and still puts up more points than Kawhi.
This is not a knock on Kawhi. Harden is just an all around better offensive player.
Simmons rated Kawhi as the #6 offensive player in the league this year. Even if Harden was #1, that is not a huge gap.mazag08 said:
Yes, Harden and Kawhi have a huge gap in offense.
Quote:
Harden doesn't ever get wide open 3's from someone driving the lane and dishing. His are all self created. Harden doesn't have any semblance of an inside out game that leads to him cutting the lane for easy layups or being kicked out to while open.
Harden still has a lower average in all three shooting categories and his strength is not and has never been spot shooting. It is driving the paint, drawing a foul and getting to the line. At that, he is elite.Quote:
Harden spends the majority of the game drawing defenders to set up his teammates and running the pick and roll, and he's the best by far at the latter. If Harden was in a system that was designed to get him open, he would score even more than he does.
Harden is not at any point the 2nd or 3rd option and has not been the 2nd or 3rd option since he left OKC. Harden has been top 5 in the NBA in FGA, top 3 in 3ptFGA and PPG, and 1st in FTA for the past three seasons. Harden is the primary scoring option.Quote:
Instead, he spends a lot of the game as the second or third scoring option, and most of his scores are from creating for himself.. and still puts up more points than Kawhi.
Harden is a better passer and is better at drawing fouls. He isn't better all around. He is better at certain aspects of offense. And he is also worse at others such as shooting, post game, and turning the ball over. Should be noted that he broke the NBA record for turnovers last year and crushed that record this year. That record stood for almost 40 years.Quote:
This is not a knock on Kawhi. Harden is just an all around better offensive player.
Lots of people that know basketball better than you or I will decide that. Are you calling Kawhi for MVP? Based on your logic, even with a bias towards offense, I would expect the argument to be between Kawhi and Westrbook, not Westbrook and Harden. I guarantee Kawhi doesn't finish 1st or 2nd. But what do I know?Guitarsoup said:
Harden dishes out way more assists as he is the point guard in DAntoni's system.
Harden and Kawhi score about the same number of points per minute played.
Kawhi shot significantly better from the field, from three and from the line than Harden did.
While PER is significantly weighted towards offensive stats, Kawhi still had a better PER than Harden.
The distance between Harden and Kawhi on offense is much smaller than the distance between Kawhi and Harden on defense. No one that knows anything about basketball could realistically say otherwise.
primomosquito said:Lots of people that know basketball better than you or I will decide that. Are you calling Kawhi for MVP? Based on your logic, even with a bias towards offense, I would expect the argument to be between Kawhi and Westrbook, not Westbrook and Harden. I guarantee Kawhi doesn't finish 1st or 2nd. But what do I know?Guitarsoup said:
Harden dishes out way more assists as he is the point guard in DAntoni's system.
Harden and Kawhi score about the same number of points per minute played.
Kawhi shot significantly better from the field, from three and from the line than Harden did.
While PER is significantly weighted towards offensive stats, Kawhi still had a better PER than Harden.
The distance between Harden and Kawhi on offense is much smaller than the distance between Kawhi and Harden on defense. No one that knows anything about basketball could realistically say otherwise.
I respect Kawhi and realize that two way players with his ability are extremely rare. That being said, I just think what Harden and Westbrook (even with all his padded rebounds) have done this year clearly place them in a class by themselves and I think the MVP votes will reflect that. In my opinion its Harden, Westbrook...........................Kawhi Lebron.Guitarsoup said:primomosquito said:Lots of people that know basketball better than you or I will decide that. Are you calling Kawhi for MVP? Based on your logic, even with a bias towards offense, I would expect the argument to be between Kawhi and Westrbook, not Westbrook and Harden. I guarantee Kawhi doesn't finish 1st or 2nd. But what do I know?Guitarsoup said:
Harden dishes out way more assists as he is the point guard in DAntoni's system.
Harden and Kawhi score about the same number of points per minute played.
Kawhi shot significantly better from the field, from three and from the line than Harden did.
While PER is significantly weighted towards offensive stats, Kawhi still had a better PER than Harden.
The distance between Harden and Kawhi on offense is much smaller than the distance between Kawhi and Harden on defense. No one that knows anything about basketball could realistically say otherwise.
I'm not calling anyone for the award. I do think Russ will win, but I think there are great arguments for all four.
But the point I made that you highlighted is unquestionable. Harden is much further from Leonard defensively than Leonard is from Harden offensively. It's really not debatable.