You don't think Green has the athleticism to take two dribbles and hit a pull up jumper or a floater? He absolutely can work on that all offseason and improve that part of his game.

Look at parker's shooting improvement and his excellence with the floater. That wasn't part of his game initially, but now he even knocks down corner threes at a good percentage. Look at Patty Mill's emergence, Leonard quickly becoming a complete player and Splitter and Duncan's FT percentage soaring. The Spurs absolutely develop players and expect you to improve and work on your game.

Green just turned 27. He can still work on his game, especially in an area where he has shown flashes of being good at, as he did in one of the finals games. He went from not being good enough for the NBA to becoming one of the games best shooters and a world champion. The dude has and can continue to improve his game.

Anyone who has ever seen Danny Green run the floor, stop on a dime, and drain a triple should know that it's possible for him to pump fake a three, drive a couple feet, and drain twos.

He pump fakes, takes a dribble to the side and/or resets while the defender goes past, and drops threes all the time. That's a more difficult shot than stepping into jumper. Floater is trickier, but still well within reach for a guy of DG's athleticism.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 7/2/2014 12:51p).]

According to the numbers, he has already been effective when run off the line.

You want him to be better at hitting the mid range. Ok great.

It's more of a response to the guy saying "he needs to show something to deserve his money" and then you responding with how bad of a player he is when force to put the ball down.


My response is simply he's a specialist who's hits threes and defends. His contract reflects what he's capable of doing . Could he improve some more? Maybe. But to start expecting a bunch out of a player who has a limited skill set is ridiculous. Much like Bruce Bowen. Guy was a specialist. He was great at what he could do. Much like Green.

[This message has been edited by Sher thing (edited 7/2/2014 1:13p).]

I understand you just want him to "dribble twice and hit a mid range"

Alright.

So he's a specialist that is good enough to start for the NBA champs, is one of the best 3pt shooters in the game and is a very good defender. He is also developing an off the dribble game (as you showed through your stats) and has improved his game drastically every year to include being one game away from winning the finals MVP in 2013.

I agree he isn't an all star caliber player, but you are selling Green way short by calling him just a specialist. He has all the athleticism, quickness and shooting skills needed to improve his off the dribble game and become a really solid NBA 2 guard.

I think he improves that part of his game as his role continues to increase. Plus he is coming up on a contract year, which always helps motivation (see Mills and Diaw).

I'm not saying he can't improve his game . Everyone can always improve. He could get better at a couple different things to help his game out for sure.

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According to the numbers, he has already been effective when run off the line.

You want him to be better at hitting the mid range. Ok great.

It's more of a response to the guy saying "he needs to show something to deserve his money" and then you responding with how bad of a player he is when force to put the ball down.


My response is simply he's a specialist who's hits threes and defends. His contract reflects what he's capable of doing . Could he improve some more? Maybe. But to start expecting a bunch out of a player who has a limited skill set is ridiculous. Much like Bruce Bowen. Guy was a specialist. He was great at what he could do. Much like Green.

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But he's not effective when he's run off the line. He's effective when he catches the ball under the basket, but when he's run off the line he's pretty bad. The stats/context I posted show it and watching 60+ games during the regular and post season show it.

No one is expecting him to crossover Lebron, spin around the help and slam it home, just make teams pay for overcommitting on closeouts. If Matt Bonner can do it, so can Danny Green. That's not expecting "a bunch". DG is a premier 3 and D guy; I'd probably find it easier to argue that he's underpaid than overpaid, but he can still add small pieces to his game.

Bowen was already 30 when he got to the Spurs. An all-time great defender, but I don't think he had as much offensive potential as DG does. Again, not expecting Green to start dropping 30 a night, just make life a little tougher on opposing defenses.

Ugh. Green needs to continue to improve, just as everyone else does. I love Green, one of my favorite Spurs.

I'm not expecting him to start running P&R sets while setting up guys for wide open threes though.

This all started with the statement on page 9 that he needed to start "showing his worth" and improve his "facilitating and p&r game"

You aren't saying these things so I'm not sure why we got into it. I strongly disagree with the above statement though.

Yes, I think he could get better at his dribble drive game.



[This message has been edited by Sher Thing (edited 7/2/2014 1:40p).]

I clearly said he needs to show that he deserves to get paid. As in, worth a pay increase. Green and Leonard are both coming to the end of their contracts. Everyone knows Green is a bargain currently and likely won't sign as cheap the next time around.

He absolutely can work on his facilitating as a ball handler and should be expected to run some pick and roll from time to time.

Again, why can't he develop these skills? He has already increased his game in many areas. Adding another dimension is not too much to ask. He can easily be a 7-8 million dollar player and solid 2 guard with a little bit more work on his ballhandling and shooting off the dribble game.

He won't ever be Manu Ginoboli, but Leonard and Green can still both develop and should expect to be asked to dribble and handle the ball a bit more. They are likely your starting 2 and 3 for the next 5+ years so its not an unreasonable expectation for them to increase their ball handling as Tony ages and Manu retires.

[This message has been edited by GatorAg03 (edited 7/2/2014 1:48p).]

I value Green very highly. He is essential to what the Spurs do. You clearly have a higher ceiling for him than I do though. Not sure what you mean by "being able to run some p&r"? Like 1 per game? or like start putting him in iso situations up top? Because he will never be that type of player. Ever.

That's all i'm saying on that.

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Ugh. Green needs to continue to improve, just as everyone else does. I love Green, one of my favorite Spurs.

I'm not expecting him to start running P&R sets while setting up guys for wide open threes though.

This all started with the statement on page 9 that he needed to start "showing his worth" and improve his "facilitating and p&r game"

You aren't saying these things so I'm not sure why we got into it. I strongly disagree with the above statement though.

Yes, I think he could get better at his dribble drive game.

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Gotcha. We're on the same page.

I guess what I am saying is he and Leonard need to be able to run the Spurs offense and a good portion of that is for the ballhandlers to run pick and roll to get the movement going.

I don't think he will ever run it like Manu, but I can envision him growing into a serviceable player in the pick and roll to at least get the movement in the offense. Make the defenders overplay it due to his 3 pt shot and that gets the defense out of position. He won't ever be able to finish like Manu or make the crazy passes, but he should be able to make the defense react and make the easy pass or take an open shot off the pick and roll. I think he can get there with a couple more offseasons of work.

I really do think Green will be the spurs starting 2 with Leonard at the 3 for at least the next 5 years. If he doesn't develop an off the dribble or pick and roll game at all, then I don't know if you can keep him as the starter once Manu leaves and you lose a 2 guard that can create his own shot.

Maybe if Leonard explodes as a pick an roll player or you get a slasher type bacj up then you can get away with Green simply being a spot up three shooter on offense.

I do have a pretty high ceiling for Green though. He keeps getting better and is clearly confident in the Spurs offense and he is just now hitting his peak years.

[This message has been edited by GatorAg03 (edited 7/2/2014 2:07p).]

I think Green will continue to start for quite a while (barring an unexpectedly high-value trade a la Hill), but I don't think his role in the offense will dramatically increase. I expect Leonard to pick up whatever drop off there is in playmaking at PG in the starting lineup and the second unit to continue to be a free-for-all of position-less misfits who fire the ball all over the place and can be subbed in for bigger minutes based on match ups as needed.


[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 7/2/2014 2:17p).]

Green can do more than he is now, but I don't like the thought of him being a consistent ball-handler. He would be helpless against traps.

The Spurs and Patty have agreed to a three year deal.

Hell yes.

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The Spurs and Patty have agreed to a three year deal.

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"Bang!!!!"

Seriously, if the Spurs field the same team next year, T&P for the rest of the NBA. Once this unit really gelled together, they were dang near impossible to beat. No doubt some of the ambition and desire will be lost going into next year, but once we get passed the all-star break and this team makes it's run to the playoffs, watch out!

This title was indeed the clincher, the one that really put them into the same league as the Lakers/Celtics/Bulls... but the only thing Duncan's Spurs have never done is win back-to-back titles. Let's do this!!!!

Meh, it's my perception that winning it again in 2015 doesn't really change anything on how most people will view the Spurs' accomplishments. It'd be impressive, for sure, but I think this year the media world finally gave the Spurs their due.

I like the Bryce Cotton signing. He's a bit undersized, but he's damn fast and can score in bunches. He also seems to be a "leave it all on the floor" guy. As a bonus, he was his team's leading scorer by a mile, so he's used to playing under pressure to create and score and he didn't shrink under the weight of that role. So we're basically talking about a Mills clone, though he doesn't have Mills' sweet 3 pointer (shot 37% from 3 as a senior) and I have no idea how well he plays defense.

Here's a highlight vid from his NCAA Tournament game against North Carolina. He had 36 points and made the Tar Heels look like they were wearing cement shoes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbLzw9ZlNw0

I don't think he's ever going to be an all star or anything like that, but there are some attributes to like. I feel like in a year or two, he could be one of those Spurs system guys that makes everyone scratch their heads as they wonder where the **** he came from (Roger Mason, Gary Neal, Patty Mills...).

Yeah I agree on Cotton. He definitely has Mills / Neal potential.

It's always hard to expect anything from someone in their rookie year on the Spurs with Pop being in charge. It does help Cotton's case that Patty won't even be on the active 13-man roster for at least half the season, if not more. You'd like to think he might at the very least see some limited playing time when Tony is taking his 4-5 games off for DNP-old in the first half of the season and all the Spurs have is Joseph at the point.

Assuming the Spurs re-sign Diaw and Baynes, but not Bonner, their early season 13-man roster will probably be something along the lines of:

Parker-Joseph-Cotton
Green-Manu-Marco
Kawhi-Anderson-Daye
Duncan-Diaw
Splitter-Baynes

Ayres will be in street clothes watching from the bench as guy #14, I'd hope. Mills will be right beside him waving the towel as guy #15.

So the rumor is 3 year $12 million deal for Mills. The Spurs may have overpaid by a little bit, but in this free agency market where teams have ton of room and not much to spend it on (see Meaks and Gordon), I think that was money well spent. Especially for a guy that is proven to be productive at his position and in his role on the Spurs.

I expect a similar good deal for Diaw. I bet he gets an offer from someone for $7-10 million per season. I can't see the Spurs going over $8 million per season (preferably closer to $6 million) and I doubt the Spurs want to go more than a couple years.

The spurs have to save room for Leonard and the post Duncan future. Next year, the Spurs will have a ton of free agents: Duncan, Manu, Parker, Green, Leonard, Belinelli, etc.

Splitter and Mills are the only two players with contracts that are definitely going to be here after next year.

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Mills will be right beside him waving the towel as guy #15.

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I hope he's working on his left-handed towel waving. Gotta get his form right by early in the season for us to have a chance at the one-seed.

I would love to see the Spurs repeat, but I feel like this championship was a huge relief and a huge weight off my shoulders after last year. Plus we dominated in such a way that I think we've earned the national respect that we've been clamoring for since the start of the Duncan era.

I agree with whoever said everything after this is just gravy. I say that now, but I know once we make it to the Western Conference Finals I'll be wanting that trophy as much as always.

Yeah, if we get to the conference finals again we will quickly forget about this year and be ready for a new title! The only difference is if they don't win it all again next year, it won't hurt as bad after the loss. This title was indeed the one that put us over the top in terms of legacym

I said before the off-season, we should pay Patty 3.5-4mm to keep him and it looks like it cost 4. I'm 100% ok with this even though he probably took a hit with the torn rotator cuff.

I don't think anyone was giving Patty the MLE, but you see these stupid contracts people are getting. Detroit just paid Jodie Meeks 3y/20mm. I'm 100% ok with 3y12mm for Patty.

What's the latest on Diaw?

About 30lbs.

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I said before the off-season, we should pay Patty 3.5-4mm to keep him and it looks like it cost 4. I'm 100% ok with this even though he probably took a hit with the torn rotator cuff.

I don't think anyone was giving Patty the MLE, but you see these stupid contracts people are getting. Detroit just paid Jodie Meeks 3y/20mm. I'm 100% ok with 3y12mm for Patty.

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This works especially well is Bonner resigns for cheap. Last year Bonner made &4M while Patty made $1M. Flipping those going forward makes sense for everyone.

Bonner is 34. A two year deal at the Vet Min with a team option on year two is generous.