Now you're speaking my language! I did get a boneyard bar because I was afraid I'd give up on lifting so I didn't want to pay full price...

I am sure my wife will understand.

Yeah, I was wondering when I read that if it applies as much to personal/home gym use as it would to commercial use. That has to be a XXX% different level of wear and tear.

Finally, a non-runner thread. "Look at me, I'm running in my 400th marathon!"

I kid of course. Total respect for you guys doing the miles. I used to but the knees and ankles had other ideas and I just prefer to chase the pump now.

Did hypertrophy for a number of years but switched to strength in 2019/20-early so that I could get better at hypertrophy honestly. While I liked strength I really like bodybuilding/hypertrophy style training.

Currently I am doing a men's physique template from Renaissance Periodization. I discovered Mike Israetel through follow Mark Rippetoe, and I really like his coaching about full ROM and his science-based approach to programming especially fatigue management. After doing strength, I really got to see first-hand the benefits of Full ROM in an exercise (no Joel Seedman follower here) and also the importance of intelligently planning one's training using reps in reserve (RIR) to measure progressive overload and manage fatigue. RIR seemed natural after using RPE in strength. Basically, they are the same concept to me. a 7 RPE is a 3 RIR. OK, that might me a little simplified but that is how I see it. I don't over think it honestly. I probably still lean towards being closer to failure then not, but RIR 5 to 1 is supposed to be close to failure anyway.

Currently using an RP Men's Physique templet and I like it. It is an excel spreadsheet format. It is a 6 day one. If you decide to get a templet from them, be aware that they sell it by number of days you plan to train. If you buy a 6 day and realize you can only really go 4 a week, you cannot adjust the program to a 4 day one. You'd have to buy a 4-day template. So, if you do decide to go this route, think about what you can realistically do per week and get that one. I love how it works as it allows you to rate your soreness and recovery for each workout which regulates how many sets and the target weight for the next time you train that body part. The volume can change mid-week depending on how you rate the workout, so be sure to actually stay on top of it by inputting your results each day as this will adjust the volume later that sae week according to how you rate things. So it is always adjusting and just because it says that day 5 will have 5 sets per exercise, things might change and you feel pretty tired leading up to that day. You input that and it will regulate you down to 2 or 3 sets. Nothing earthshattering and most of this can be done by using common sense. But I really like their approach at RP and have read their Scientific Principles of Hypertrophy book and wanted to see a training program mapped out to better understand what they are teaching. Honestly, this template works pretty well. I noticed that as long as I am totally honest in rating how I feel going into the workout, it adjusts the training pretty accurately. If I am still sore from Day 1's training on day 3 (both push dominant days), I tell it and the next week's day 1 might see a lower volume or stay the same but not go up, depending on how I rate it. Obviously it works in the opposite way as well. If I think the training was too easy, I rate as such and volume will go up. Be careful here though. Don't get greedy. It can go up fast.

My split: 2 6 week mesocyles, 1 5-week meso with supersets and 1 cycle dedicated to heavier loads to help "re-sensitize" the body that is about 3 weeks long. The idea being if you pushed it hard enough with all the volume, your body likely will have adapted enough that adding more volume at this point won't give as much return and now the goal is to at least maintain size that has been gained. Strength training is actually very good for this. After 2-3 weeks of this and a deload, adding higher volume back into training should see better results as now your body is less adapted to volume training then it was a few weeks ago. The program has a weeklong deload between each meso.

Day 1 Chest Dominant push with a shoulder and a back pull. 3 chest exercises, 1 shoulder and 1 back pull.
Day 2: Quad Dominant legs with 2 quad exercises and a hammy curl variation. Abs and calves as well. Do these first or you'll be toast after legs and they will be crap
Day 3: Tri dominant press. 2 triceps exercises with your choice of tri only or more compound movements like dips and or close grip bench. a regular chest press and bicep and back
Day4: Glute dominant legs. Dead lift variation, lunges, 1 quad dominant and of course abs and calves (again, actually do these first)
Day 5: Back day. 3 back exercices and 2 biceps. A real pull day.
Day 6. I call it the junk drawer day: Hammy stretch exercise like good morning, SLDL with barbell or DB, 2 shoulder exercises (I focus on mid and rear) and shrugs. And of course calves.

Each day has 5 exercises since I go 6 days. RP likes to limit athletes to 7 exercises normally and really works towards getting the most bang for your buck by thinking less sets and more quality. That said, be prepaired to see you volume jump up over the 6 week mesocycles from 2-3 to, in some cases, 6-8 sets, especially in the less fatiguing exercises like side laterals etc. It usually limits the compounds to 5 sets at max volume in weeks 5-6.

Is there a way that you input what equipment is available when it's building your workout routines?

CC09LawAg said:

---

Is there a way that you input what equipment is available when it's building your workout routines?

---

No, and it's one drawback. Now, I do see on the forums for RP that some excel gurus have done that. Adjusted the spreadsheet on their own to meet their needs and add exercises. But I am not a guru. But right now, for instance, I am actually trying to work on thickening my back during this phase, so more rowing and less vertical pulls. Except you cannot do that. The template shows 2 vertical pulls and 1 row. So I just input whatever vertical that comes up, use the load for the row I am actually doing and note it in my own notebook that I take to the gym. Which brings up another point, it's not an app, so you'll need a notebook. But I have a feeling an app will be on the way soon. As they become more popular, they will be able to afford being able to make an app. It would be SOOOO much easier than trying to use excel on an iPhone, which I just don't do. But I am old school so notebooks do not bother me.

I do use the RP diet app. I am massing. It was great and actually I do not use it very much right now as maintaining the desired massing weight it calculated for me is relatively easy. I stay at 212. And tend to fluctuate between 210 and 215. So I am pretty much on point. When I lean out is when I will be really using it as it will let me lean responsibly and not lose too much body mass too fast. I can lean out FAST. Sure, great problem for some, but I want to keep as much muscle as I can while losing mostly BF. So, I have to go slow. Honestly, I see now why a lot of guys (body builders doing competition) take a full year to mass. Gaining takes time and losing takes time.

I love RP and their approach on nutrition and training, but have never bought any of the templates. Mike's YouTube videos have- for me- been a great education on hypertrophy training. Coming from doing crossfit for a few years (with very basic hypertrophy training for 15 years before that), I had enough of a base to jump back into hypertrophy training techniques and just see what happens. I'm beyond pleased with my results so far

I even just completed their new nutrition coaching course they started in the fall because I trusted their approach, and hope to coach others using that as the base

Most of my successful training has been on Starting Strength style workouts, but I know I will burn out on those eventually....

Can you explain hypertrophy training to me like I'm 5? I think the general premise is higher reps per set, but I am honestly clueless as to how you structure the workouts. Is there more accessory lifting? Do you change exercises more often? Are you targeting muscles in iso workouts that may not get as much attention on the big compound lifts? Can it be done successfully in 3 or 4 day splits? Do the workouts take longer?

True Anomaly said:

---

I love RP and their approach on nutrition and training, but have never bought any of the templates. Mike's YouTube videos have- for me- been a great education on hypertrophy training. Coming from doing crossfit for a few years (with very basic hypertrophy training for 15 years before that), I had enough of a base to jump back into hypertrophy training techniques and just see what happens. I'm beyond pleased with my results so far

I even just completed their new nutrition coaching course they started in the fall because I trusted their approach, and hope to coach others using that as the base

---

What I love is that RP encompasses bodybuilding, strength training and powerlifting and CrossFit. They have coaches that specialize in these areas and it refreshing to see these 3 demographics and instead of pitting these training styles against each other they are validated for each offering a different type of fitness to those that prefer them.

CC09LawAg said:

---

Most of my successful training has been on Starting Strength style workouts, but I know I will burn out on those eventually....

Can you explain hypertrophy training to me like I'm 5? I think the general premise is higher reps per set, but I am honestly clueless as to how you structure the workouts. Is there more accessory lifting? Do you change exercises more often? Are you targeting muscles in iso workouts that may not get as much attention on the big compound lifts? Can it be done successfully in 3 or 4 day splits? Do the workouts take longer?

---

Not to derail this thread, but I have these same questions as well as I have been trying to find a good, reputable program rather than trying to use ones that can be found on various sites on the internet. I'm a pretty experienced lifter and have lifted for a good amount of my life, but really just 3 to 4 sets of 10 for most of the basic lifts (a pretty generic routine that has gotten old and there is little doubt that I need to really move on to something that will be more conducive to gains). I'd greatly appreciate any advice if anyone has any. Thanks.

CC09LawAg said:

---

Most of my successful training has been on Starting Strength style workouts, but I know I will burn out on those eventually....

Can you explain hypertrophy training to me like I'm 5? I think the general premise is higher reps per set, but I am honestly clueless as to how you structure the workouts. Is there more accessory lifting? Do you change exercises more often? Are you targeting muscles in iso workouts that may not get as much attention on the big compound lifts? Can it be done successfully in 3 or 4 day splits? Do the workouts take longer?

---

Hypertrophy is muscle growth. Strength is adding weight to the bar. They do cross into each other for sure. But if you are more interested in purely getting bigger, hypertrophy is what you should focus on. If adding weight to the bar, i.e. getting stronger, is your main goal, strength training is your focus. Strength will be hypertrophic, especially in reps of 5 or more. But not as much, in most cases, as more volume is. Volume is essentially the number of reps and sets. Load is the weight on the bar. In both you will have a load focus at times and a volume focus at other times. Again, they cross over a lot. But optimally, you should follow a hypertrophy program if muscle size (looking jacked) is what you want, and you should follow a strength focused program if you want to optimize your strength. And, many will have strength and hypertrophy phases, training for one for a period of time before purposefully going back to the other. Muscle size, in theory, should help increase your strength capacity, and more strength should, in theory, allow you to train with heavier volume over time. So its a win win to do it in phases.


As for programming, this is where things start ot complicate a bit. So much depends on the trainee, their available time, age, level of training ability etc. Each type of training has a certain amount of leigh way to work with, again depending on your goals. But generally, in hypertrophy, one trains 3-6 days a week, with better results coming from more than 3 days and less optimal results with anything more than 6 days a week. For advanced trainees, periods of 2-a-days can be effective but for short periods (chest in morning and tris in afternoon for example or quads early and hammys later in day). Usually, one ramps up over a 3-6 week mesocycle. Right now, many find a 6-week cycle to be best but it's very dependent on the athlete and their time. so early one would stay conservative in sets, 2-3 tops per exercise and later as the mesocycle progresses sets are added. Rep ranges will depend on a lot of factors. Compounds generally are 5-10 reps. Isolation can be anywhere from 5-30 reps depending on the exercise and athlete. So, things like lunges might work great for you at 10-15 reps, but many find better results in the 15-30 rep range. Here you just have test out what works best and has the best stimulus to fatigue ratios.

Strength is usually pretty simple. 5s really work great for the novice and intermediate trainee. 3 sets of 5 reps adding 5 to the bar each week until you cannot and then working through that by either adding less weight or working up to 5 reps for 3 sets with the target weight. After that things stay similar but accessory exercises can be added to add muscle, strength or as a way to work through sticking points and issues. Things like pin squats or presses, dips, adding bands or chains in some cases (probably better for more advanced trainees), deficit deadlifts, paused deads etc. SS is a great place to start, as are a number of other similar programs. After that, it depends on your goals. Some just want to get stronger; others may want to powerlift competitively and some even go into strongman. So it all depends. Here you could stay with SS, go to RP or Juggernaut Strength amongst others for templates and or coaching.

CC09LawAg said:

---

Most of my successful training has been on Starting Strength style workouts, but I know I will burn out on those eventually....

Can you explain hypertrophy training to me like I'm 5? I think the general premise is higher reps per set, but I am honestly clueless as to how you structure the workouts. Is there more accessory lifting? Do you change exercises more often? Are you targeting muscles in iso workouts that may not get as much attention on the big compound lifts? Can it be done successfully in 3 or 4 day splits? Do the workouts take longer?

---

I'll caveat all of this with I may be talking out of my ass, so anyone else please feel free to correct me

For hypertrophy training, the goal is to get as close as possible to technical failure with the muscle as much as you can given your ability to recover. The really cool thing is that there are a million ways to get to that goal

A few principles I follow:
-You are able to build muscle with working sets that range anywhere from 5-30 reps, but each of those sets must be close to failure at least (we're talking 2-3 reps in reserve from failure for each set).
- The number of working sets per muscle group per week has a direct effect on your ability to grow. Starting out as a novice, it may only take 2-3 working sets of chest in order to see growth- but the more you grow, the more volume (sets x reps x weight) you need to grow more.
- Full ROM as much as possible for the target muscle or muscle group - even if that means lower weight.
- Control eccentric as much as possible, as growth can occur even in the stretched position of that muscle when lowering the weight
- Mind/muscle connection helps a lot, but is not required
- Splits are just a way to organize your weekly volume. But research seems to suggest that targeting the muscle twice per week is probably better for growth than just once per week. But you can definitely grow just doing a bro split with dedicated days
- There is no required exercise. There is only achieving a proper stimulus for the muscle you're trying to grow
- Progressive overload is still important, but it's not just putting weight on the bar- it could be adding another set, or even adding another 1-2 reps per working set. So those "3 sets of 10" might have you stalled out, but 3 sets of 12-15 might give you a better stimulus for the time being. Or even 4-5 sets of 10. As long as you're increasing your total volume over time, you will grow

Given all this, I aim for about 10 working sets per muscle group per week. I love variety of exercises as well, so I'll do deadlifts and squats, but accessory movements are widely used as well

Oh, and if you're not eating enough complete protein (0.8-1.2 g/pound of lean body mass), then you are missing out on even more growth. This is true whether in a calorie surplus or even a calorie deficit

Capitol Ag said:

---

True Anomaly said:

---

I love RP and their approach on nutrition and training, but have never bought any of the templates. Mike's YouTube videos have- for me- been a great education on hypertrophy training. Coming from doing crossfit for a few years (with very basic hypertrophy training for 15 years before that), I had enough of a base to jump back into hypertrophy training techniques and just see what happens. I'm beyond pleased with my results so far

I even just completed their new nutrition coaching course they started in the fall because I trusted their approach, and hope to coach others using that as the base

---

What I love is that RP encompasses bodybuilding, strength training and powerlifting and CrossFit. They have coaches that specialize in these areas and it refreshing to see these 3 demographics and instead of pitting these training styles against each other they are validated for each offering a different type of fitness to those that prefer them.

---

Agreed. All have great benefits, because at the end of the day you're just trying to move more and more weight. So doing any of them will get you increased size and strength- it's just the ratios of those that are in the details of each type of discipline

I meant it when I said explain it like I'm 5...

So, if I'm doing a SS style workout, where I squat/bench/row, squat/OH press/DL, squat/bench/row repeat, is it as easy as switching the rep scheme to higher volume and just adjusting the weights for that?

Is it better to focus the splits into a push day, a pull day, and a lower day, doing bench + accessories, row + accessories, and squat + accessories? Is 3 days enough?

I like the idea of switching between building strength and building size. Thanks for your input!

Saw your edit. Thanks!

Awesome, this is helpful!

Life will realistically probably only afford me 4 days max a week to lift - if I'm trying to hit everything twice a week, maybe a push/pull/lower/upper body type split?

CC09LawAg said:

---

I meant it when I said explain it like I'm 5...

So, if I'm doing a SS style workout, where I squat/bench/row, squat/OH press/DL, squat/bench/row repeat, is it as easy as switching the rep scheme to higher volume and just adjusting the weights for that?

Is it better to focus the splits into a push day, a pull day, and a lower day, doing bench + accessories, row + accessories, and squat + accessories? Is 3 days enough?

I like the idea of switching between building strength and building size. Thanks for your input!

---

See my add on in my original post. Basically, yes and no. Some of these things that SS does might be a waste of time and energy if hypertrophy is your main goal. Hypertrophy is a fancy way of saying muscle growth which is a way of saying body building. The deal with hypertrophy is to think in isolation. It is also important to focus on managing fatigue as your volume will raise significantly in hypertrophy. Here is an example: Why are you doing a squat in hypertrophy? typically it's to grow your quads. In strength focused training, that isn't the main goal at all. It's to use close to perfect technique to squat the weight for the desired # of reps. Then add weight the next time generally. Here you want to use the body in a way that gets the weight up safely and successfully. Sure, I grew my quads and I liked that part but in lowbar, there is a give and take as more glute and even hamstring become involved. You will see that these types of squats are not always the best for hypertrophy as the amount of fatigue induced doing a typical low bar squat is pretty high (too much fatigue for the stimulus), so one might find that a lighter front or high bar squat where the heals are elevated and the back more vertical are a better way to isolate the quads with less fatigue built up. So, you will see more quad stimulus and less stimulus in other areas in your lower body.

But here is a great video:




As for splits, depends. If you only have 3 days, then that is fine. I'd do 4-6 days though. But it depends on what you have available. Split by push pull legs, upper lower then upper etc or even full body with rest between days. But the more days up to 6, probably the better.

Here is Dr. Mike on splits:

True Anomaly said:

---

CC09LawAg said:

---

Most of my successful training has been on Starting Strength style workouts, but I know I will burn out on those eventually....

Can you explain hypertrophy training to me like I'm 5? I think the general premise is higher reps per set, but I am honestly clueless as to how you structure the workouts. Is there more accessory lifting? Do you change exercises more often? Are you targeting muscles in iso workouts that may not get as much attention on the big compound lifts? Can it be done successfully in 3 or 4 day splits? Do the workouts take longer?

---

I'll caveat all of this with I may be talking out of my ass, so anyone else please feel free to correct me

For hypertrophy training, the goal is to get as close as possible to technical failure with the muscle as much as you can given your ability to recover. The really cool thing is that there are a million ways to get to that goal

A few principles I follow:
-You are able to build muscle with working sets that range anywhere from 5-30 reps, but each of those sets must be close to failure at least (we're talking 2-3 reps in reserve from failure for each set).
- The number of working sets per muscle group per week has a direct effect on your ability to grow. Starting out as a novice, it may only take 2-3 working sets of chest in order to see growth- but the more you grow, the more volume (sets x reps x weight) you need to grow more.
- Full ROM as much as possible for the target muscle or muscle group - even if that means lower weight.
- Control eccentric as much as possible, as growth can occur even in the stretched position of that muscle when lowering the weight
- Mind/muscle connection helps a lot, but is not required
- Splits are just a way to organize your weekly volume. But research seems to suggest that targeting the muscle twice per week is probably better for growth than just once per week. But you can definitely grow just doing a bro split with dedicated days
- There is no required exercise. There is only achieving a proper stimulus for the muscle you're trying to grow
- Progressive overload is still important, but it's not just putting weight on the bar- it could be adding another set, or even adding another 1-2 reps per working set. So those "3 sets of 10" might have you stalled out, but 3 sets of 12-15 might give you a better stimulus for the time being. Or even 4-5 sets of 10. As long as you're increasing your total volume over time, you will grow

Given all this, I aim for about 10 working sets per muscle group per week. I love variety of exercises as well, so I'll do deadlifts and squats, but accessory movements are widely used as well

Oh, and if you're not eating enough complete protein (0.8-1.2 g/pound of lean body mass), then you are missing out on even more growth. This is true whether in a calorie surplus or even a calorie deficit

---

This is great stuff.

This is good stuff!

I'd add, most people have no idea what working out to failure really looks like. I'm not an advocate of training to failure regularly (risk v reward) but doing so to establish a baseline and to calibrate your RPE or RIR is needed. Most people leave way to much in the tank…

Sleep is another very underrated component of recovery and growth. I wish I knew that when I was younger but a solid 7-8 hrs of sleep a night is such a difference maker.

I agree with you regarding full ROM but there are certain exercises you can incorporate partials, especially if done in conjunction with sets to failure (25 lateral raises to failure and then 10 partial). Incline bench press with 1-2" pause above chest and 3/4 lockout keeps tension on the chest too, although I'm still trying to get used to not going full ROM.

Regarding the hypertrophy vs strength training - I think you can blend both into the same program. It is essentially what I have done the last year or so after doing several body building programs. Emphasize key workouts (bench, squat, rows) for strength and work up to 3/4x3/4. Work on isolation and hypertrophy for the remainder of the workout.

I've also started incorporating some of the FST7 philosophy into my workouts and am a big fan. I hate, hate, hate doing them but it's a very good twist and the results have been good thus far.

True Anomaly said:

---

Given all this, I aim for about 10 working sets per muscle group per week. I love variety of exercises as well, so I'll do deadlifts and squats, but accessory movements are widely used as well

---

You are definitely not talking out of your ass, but I might be: do you count bench press as a working set for your triceps as a muscle group? Or only count iso sets?

CC09LawAg said:

---

True Anomaly said:

---

Given all this, I aim for about 10 working sets per muscle group per week. I love variety of exercises as well, so I'll do deadlifts and squats, but accessory movements are widely used as well

---

You are definitely not talking out of your ass, but I might be: do you count bench press as a working set for your triceps as a muscle group? Or only count iso sets?

---

Depends on the bench. But honestly, if it is a bench variation or dips, i'd still count that towards chest as well. Whats great about tris is you can do skulls, pressdowns, JM presses and such as well to add more iso volume. No matter which way you cut it, a close grip bench still hits chest and so do dips. So just be aware...

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

Regarding the hypertrophy vs strength training - I think you can blend both into the same program. It is essentially what I have done the last year or so after doing several body building programs. Emphasize key workouts (bench, squat, rows) for strength and work up to 3/4x3/4. Work on isolation and hypertrophy for the remainder of the workout.

---

I have found a pretty good sweet spot of 220 pounds where I can maintain my weight and still make strength gains while doing Starting Strength.

Obviously this is a question very specific to each individual, but generally to make hypertrophy gains, do you need to be actively trying to gain weight to put on muscle size? Or as a novice will I probably be able to do it for 6 months or so while maintaining weight due to body recomposition?

Capitol Ag said:

---

CC09LawAg said:

---

True Anomaly said:

---

Given all this, I aim for about 10 working sets per muscle group per week. I love variety of exercises as well, so I'll do deadlifts and squats, but accessory movements are widely used as well

---

You are definitely not talking out of your ass, but I might be: do you count bench press as a working set for your triceps as a muscle group? Or only count iso sets?

---

Depends on the bench. But honestly, if it is a bench variation or dips, i'd still count that towards chest as well. Whats great about tris is you can do skulls, pressdowns, JM presses and such as well to add more iso volume. No matter which way you cut it, a close grip bench still hits chest and so do dips. So just be aware...

---

Agreed. I personally err on the side of doing more isolated work so long as time and recovery and fatigue allow for it. I find I get massive stimulus from cable overhead tricep extensions, but also will incorporate tricep-focused dips (being straight up and down rather than leaning forward will focus more on the triceps than chest)

Regarding the "10 sets near failure per muscle group" - some weeks I exceed that, and other weeks not so much. It's also dependent on the muscle as well (quad work is highly fatiguing but could get excellent stimulation from doing less than 10 working sets per week, but side delts may need 15 or more each week for growth) But it's been a good guide for me personally to follow as a principle, and so far with dedicated training I'm happy with my results

I don't count warmup sets in my total working volume

Quote:

---

I'd add, most people have no idea what working out to failure really looks like. I'm not an advocate of training to failure regularly (risk v reward) but doing so to establish a baseline and to calibrate your RPE or RIR is needed. Most people leave way to much in the tank…

---

Agree. It's hard and many times I wonder, after the set, was that actually too close to failure? well, honestly, yes and no. It wasn't RIR 0 as that is where you absolutely cannot do another without breaking form. Same with RPE. The way I have always been taught, RPE10 is basically bone on bone. Like, the heaviest thing you have ever lifted level. So most times 8-9 is all one needs as most never actually hit 10. As long as I am getting stronger, can add more reps etc, I am probably ok. But I am always mindful, I track my resp and even record how it felt at times. Also, so many times we forget about the outside factors that affect RIR or RPE on a daily basis. Lack of sleep, stress at work. The fact that today you are training later than earlier, etc. It can be a moving target. What was an RIR of 3 last week, due to a very stressful workweek can feel like RIR 1 this week. I may still get all the reps, but man, it was really hard. So I am still learning. Again, I'd rather be a little too close to an RIR that is more challenging overall as we can tend to overestimate our own abilities in each lift.

CC09LawAg said:

---

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

Regarding the hypertrophy vs strength training - I think you can blend both into the same program. It is essentially what I have done the last year or so after doing several body building programs. Emphasize key workouts (bench, squat, rows) for strength and work up to 3/4x3/4. Work on isolation and hypertrophy for the remainder of the workout.

---

I have found a pretty good sweet spot of 220 pounds where I can maintain my weight and still make strength gains while doing Starting Strength.

Obviously this is a question very specific to each individual, but generally to make hypertrophy gains, do you need to be actively trying to gain weight to put on muscle size? Or as a novice will I probably be able to do it for 6 months or so while maintaining weight due to body recomposition?

---

Yes and no. You obviously can gain size when you eat more, but it is nearly impossible to add only muscle even if everything else is in check (proper training and amount of daily protein). But- you can add muscle size when cutting weight provided the stimulus is strong enough with your lifting. Lots of caveats with all this- especially if you're eating in a severe calorie deficit (the higher the deficit beyond 500 cals/day, the more likely you'll lose both fat AND muscle. I've definitely learned this the hard way)

I see the weight loss/weight gain with muscle building this way in general:

To lose weight, you eat in a deficit.
To lose more fat than muscle, then you increase your protein intake and up your resistance training while still in a deficit
To gain weight, then eat more
To gain muscle, eat adequate protein and lift more

Body recomp can occur at maintenance so long as you have adequate fat stores to provide energy for muscle building

The resistance training tells your body that the skeletal muscle is important, so to not break it down for energy (skeletal muscle is not needed for survival, so body will break it down for energy and vital organs in a severe enough calorie deficit). The protein is to ensure the muscle at least sticks around, and sometimes get bigger

I've probably lost 5-7 lbs in the last couple of months after cutting out more BS out of my diet (sweet tea, most deserts, and a few other small things). I don't have an ideal weight I am trying to get to but I would like to lean out more. Somewhere down in the 230-35 range would be better for me long term and probably not compromise too much in strength. So far, my strength has not dropped. I am very religious with my protein intake though.

Thanks, good information. I am currently aiming for .7g to 1g of protein intake per pound of body weight; most days I land on the higher end of that. I have held my current weight for a few months now and haven't felt like it's impeded my strength training.

Once I make the switch, I'll probably see if I can keep that up. I'm guessing the best way to measure results for hypertrophy training involves measuring tape and BF% scans?

Yep, pretty much

Bodyfat scales are notoriously error-prone, but they are at least consistent. So tracking over time is still helpful

Stumbled on to this thread and glad I did.

Just last year (end of Oct) I started getting serious about going to the gym again. Attempting to do some hypertrophy P/P/L training(I don't know where this "3 sec rest training" entry came from). But what exactly should I do, how should I do it, etc.

I knew there was wealth (?) of info out there now on the web (FB, Instagram, Youtube).

The hard part is, to whose advice to follow. I started out watching Jonni Shreve, but recently started watching RP videos, and a couple of others on occasion.

I usually try to glean from each any similarities, and the apply those.

Glad to see RP referenced here.

My quest now is to find a trainer that I could trust to check my form. I'm in Cypress. Anyone know of a trainer in the area they would recommend, one they have some personal experience with?

I've never had a good experience with a personal trainer. It's a social media driven, marketing job with zero barrier of entry. They sell the look of their bodies essentially to gain clients and are therefor are highly incentivized to use PEDs as a result.

I'm sure high end ones are really good but you probably get what you pay for. Instead of personal trainers, I would buy a nice camera setup and record yourself doing your lifts. You can see and critique yourself.

RC_57 said:

---

Stumbled on to this thread and glad I did.

Just last year (end of Oct) I started getting serious about going to the gym again. Attempting to do some 3 sec rest training. But what exactly should I do, how should I do it.

I knew there was wealth (?) of info out there now on the web (FB, Instagram, Youtube).

The hard part is, to whose advice to follow. I started out watching Jonni Shreve, but recently started watching RP videos, and a couple of others on occasion.

I usually try to glean from each any similarities, and the apply those.

Glad to see RP referenced here.

My quest now is to find a trainer that I could trust to check my form. I'm in Cypress. Anyone know of a trainer in the area they would recommend, one they have some personal experience with?

---

The thing on form is, hiring a trainer to watch form is a crap shoot. I know trainers who still very much believe in partial ROM and TUT as the absolute benchmarks of form. I know others who are along the lines of Joel; Seedman (look him up for a laugh) in terms of form, and then there are the Full ROM guys like at RP. On top of that, when I started as a trainer, I was more "Full ROM" but very, very over the top about form and technique. And I wasn't always right either. Now I am much more open minded. Very Full ROM but I'm not real concerned with the most beautiful technique or form and more about if the person actually feels the exercise. I try to put it all together but rely the most on client feedback.

The best bet, watch as much as you can on youtube and find people you trust. RP is fantastic for hypertrophy. Be mindful that some form is dependent on the purpose of the lift. Squats for strength are different than squats for hypertrophy in most cases as the stimulus to fatigue ratios can be great for more upright lighter high bar and front bar squats. Lowbar is fantastic for strength, but a lot of volume is VERY systemically challenging to most. Or skip squats if the stimulus to fatigue rations are better for you in leg press, Hacks and lunges, etc. Axial loading can be very hard on some. It's dependent on the athlete and the reason they are training. In strength, do you damn squats. In body Building, dealers' choice.

If you want to hire a trainer, take your time to find one that you agree with their philosophy and focus. The more experienced trainers might be great. But then again, a lot of older trainers are very anti-full ROM. They think full ROM puts people a more risk for injury or that it is wasted movement. Fine, maybe studies will show them to be correct. But for now, most studies now seem to show that a full range of motion to give the best stimuluses.

People I follow for hypertrophy:

Brad Schoenfeld
Mike Israetel
Greg Nuckols '
Jeff Nippard

For Strength:
Mark Rippetoe
Alan Thrall
Barbell Medicine
Barbell Logic


And that's off the top of my head. There are more guys I like too.

Can we talk about grip strength?

I'm struggling to hold heavy dumbbells to complete my sets of RDLs. 85s even with cheap gymreaper straps are almost impossible to get up for 4 sets of 12 without putting it down and adjusting on the 3rd and 4th sets.

I've realized that for some reason, dumbbells are harder to hold than barbells of the same weight. Also RDLs seem much harder on the forearms than deadlifts.

I'm not really doing anything specific for my forearms or grip. Any advice on how to both increase my grip strength and to get around this bottleneck when I've already tried straps (they make some difference, but not enough). My glutes and hamstrings would be fine at significantly higher loads as I work up to it.

Farmer Carries would be my suggestion.

Very new to lifting - had someone recommend The New Rules to Lifting - Alwyn Cosgrove & Lou Schuler.

Noticed my workouts getting mundane and starting to plateau, so I'm dipping my toes into the break-in period (2 week workouts). Now I'm taking a 3 ring binder and a pencil to the gym and notating my workouts. Have never deadlifted in my life - have done some squats periodically. Did some lunges for the first time since college and my quads / groin are on fire this last day and a half. Gonna read and learn!

Here is a good article. Try rice and work your way up. Tate knows his stuff.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-do-rice-digs-for-grip-strength/

PascalsWager, your comments on "…marketing job with zero barrier of entry. They sell the look of their bodies …" is exactly what I've expected to see, but what I'm trying to avoid when looking for and choosing a trainer.

As far a critiquing myself, yes, I can certainly critique myself. I just don't know that I can identify the problem, so that I would know how to correct it.
For example, I have a hard time with back exercises. I just don't get the feel in my lats I expect when I'm doing say wide arm lat pull downs. So I'm concerned I'm not doing them correctly so as to achieve the optimum benefit. I try different techniques but I have a hard time feeling them like I think I should. Same with chest.

AgEng06, thanks for the laugh. Admittedly, I would have been disappointed if someone had not have said it.

Capitol, appreciate the reply. And ROM is something I try to concentrate on. I first learned of it when watching Jonni Shreve on Youtube.
I'll check out some of those you've listed under hypertrophy.

Bottom line is, I guess I just have to be smart on how much and how I lift, but also patient and keep at it.